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Instructing & high winds

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Instructing & high winds

Old 24th Oct 2019, 09:59
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: South of Watford
Posts: 774
I match you in flying experience, first solo 1978, in civilian flying, military and airline. I still think the OP was correct in his/her decision making for all the reasons given by me and others.
We will agree to disagree and I wish you continued safe flying.
pitotheat is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2019, 16:10
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Northern Europe
Posts: 26
"The superior Pilot uses his superior knowledge to avoid situations which require his superior skills". This was often quoted when I was a junior Instructor years ago. Isn't this matter all about "training value" for the student and developing his limitations. If he can't cope with strong winds and he has had a long layoff then you made the right call.
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Old 24th Oct 2019, 18:06
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hotel this week, hotel next week, home whenever...
Posts: 1,294
“The least experienced press on while the more experienced turn back to meet the most experienced who never set off in the first place.”

Safety first. Learning objectives and value for the customers (training and fiscal). If the student isn’t going to benefit then what’s the point?

Duchess_Driver is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2019, 15:06
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 88
Originally Posted by Duchess_Driver View Post
...
Safety first. Learning objectives and value for the customers (training and fiscal). If the student isn’t going to benefit then what’s the point?
Hear, hear. It surely also demonstrates to the student that airmanship includes the ability to say 'not today'. It brings to mind Helen Krasner's article in the October '19 edition of FTN about teaching airmanship by example.

TBH, I remain surprised at the lack of penetration into light aircraft training of modern flight simulation technology. A massive amount of (albeit not loggable) training experience can be built up on non-flyable days and evenings by an instructor giving lessons in any half-decent synthetic training device. When I abandoned a flying day at my microlight school, I'd offer to set up our simulator with "today's weather" - that'd usually satisfy the student that staying on the ground was a wise decision. What's more, the student made more progress in the simulator - which was usually carried through to the next real flight - for less expense than if they'd been taken up in near-limit conditions.
MB
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 22:38
  #25 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 923
Does the Operational Manual provide guidance as to limitations?

The other consideration was the benefit the customer was likely to receive.
The customer might concur with your decision. Perhaps a conversation with management might settle the matter. HoT most likely to wind his neck in........

OP please update if any developments
parkfell is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2019, 09:11
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 593
We're only a DTO but, a "Weather minima chart" is permanently on the notice board, setting out limits for solo students, dual flights and flights by licence holders (with a separate column for IR/IRR holders) for circuit details, local flights, longer local flights and landaways. It's been there since I started as an RF many years ago. The O.P.'s flight would never have left the clubhouse if it were ours. (And had the 27 knot gust happened at the critical moment the x wind component would have been much more than 11 knots)

I get accused of being a wimp, but I just take that as a compliment..............
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 16:51
  #27 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 923
Originally Posted by MrAverage View Post
We're only a DTO but, a "Weather minima chart" is permanently on the notice board, setting out limits for solo students, dual flights and flights by licence holders (with a separate column for IR/IRR holders) for circuit details, local flights, longer local flights and landaways. It's been there since I started as an RF many years ago. The O.P.'s flight would never have left the clubhouse if it were ours. (And had the 27 knot gust happened at the critical moment the x wind component would have been much more than 11 knots)

I get accused of being a wimp, but I just take that as a compliment..............
What all FIs must be aware of is that should a serious/fatal event occur not only will the AAIB & CAA get involved, then M’learned friends will be after their pound of flesh as well.
Extremely expensive, long lasting, and stressful.

My advise to any instructor is that your ‘ legal eagle ‘ sits on your shoulder at work. You must be able to justify entirely all actions taken. Taking a calculated risk is simply fool hardy.
Having appeared as a witness at two Scottish Fatal Accidents Inquiries, it became obvious that any chinks in the armour will be fully revealed.

For ‘wimp’ read a ‘mature sound individual’
parkfell is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2019, 20:45
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Delta of Venus
Posts: 401
Part of my training, many years ago, was conducted by a "character" called David Coulson. Stick & rudder wise he certainly showed me what was possible to those with sufficient talent & I'll always be grateful for that.
Private jet is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2019, 00:06
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: usa
Posts: 53
..17G27..Excellent day for some landing practise (for an advanced student)..Everybody should experience these conditions at some point of their training, so they can judge the weather and their abilities better later on..After all, if you haven´t seen it before, you do not know what to expect..Instructor who is takes a student up only in good conditions, is doing a disservice to the student and himself..Eventually a day like this will come, be prepared..

Fly safe,
B-757
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 18:57
  #30 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 923
Originally Posted by B-757 View Post
..17G27..Excellent day for some landing practise (for an advanced student)..Everybody should experience these conditions at some point of their training, so they can judge the weather and their abilities better later on..After all, if you haven´t seen it before, you do not know what to expect..Instructor who is takes a student up only in good conditions, is doing a disservice to the student and himself..Eventually a day like this will come, be prepared..

Fly safe,
B-757
A stroll in the park for a B757, if that is your present/past ac. A somewhat blunt answer as to how to introduce someone.
Depends what you mean by “advanced student”. PPL? CPL? It is surprising what a limiting factor the xwc can be on light ac...
To gently nibble at it is probably the answer to gain experience.
Where you learn in the world is also a significant factor.
What is true is that “fair weather” bases don’t always prepare you for the real world if undergoing professional training. That also applies to instructors joining as FOs in northern latitudes.



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