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Retiring ATPL to PPL

Old 18th Aug 2018, 23:14
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Retiring ATPL to PPL

I am a recently retired UK CAA 747 TRI/TRE. I haven't flown light aircraft for years having flown in Big Airways for a good bit of my career and big aircraft VIP operations for some time after. I would like to do some private flying in my retirement - I hope one of you bright chaps(es) can advise me what I have to do to get back into private flying on a PPL. What do I need to do?
Another question - how does a Class 1 medical restriction - 'As or with Co-pilot' effect PPL licensing.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 07:47
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You should still have a "brown" PPL somewhere, or a JAR SEP rating certificate if you converted to that regime. If you have a UK issued EASA ATPL that should include PPL privileges, but in any case your rating will have lapsed. Renewing the rating is quite straightforward. Training as directed by your chosen club or school, followed by an LPC. The "as or with", regarding a Class II, medical will depend on the reason, but we have an AME who's regularly at the airfield who can advise.

Send me a PM if you can get to Elstree and I'll talk you through the process, no obligation or charge, but please call first to make sure I'm about. (I'm away from the 31st til the 18th)
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 10:05
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In other words a couple of hours practice and an SEP test.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 11:05
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Many thanks. I've a medical next week so can ask the AME about the 'as or with' restriction. I'll start looking for a flying venue after hols in September.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 18:56
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If you have a UK issued EASA ATPL(A), the SEP(A) rating may well be printed on the back page of the licence as "previously held ratings".

If it's there, it's an easy job of presenting yourself to an ATO for training as required (there is no legal minimum training required, although there are recommendations based on how long the rating has lapsed), followed by an LPC, which usually takes about an hour, with an examiner fee of around 130-150 depending on where you go.

You will then need to submit the LPC paperwork to the CAA along with form SRG1119B for renewal, unfortunately along with a fee of around 90.

If the rating is not listed on the back of your licence, you may be able to find some proof of having previously had in and submit that to support your claim. Otherwise, it will be more training at the ATO followed by a skills test for the issue of the rating, which is a bit more involved than an LPC.

As for the medical, one option if you only intend flying for fun is to downgrade your licence to an LAPL if all you are able to obtain is an LAPL medical depending on the restrictions you have. An EASA PPL(A) currently requires a class 2 medical, although ORS4 1260 gives an exemption to this, you need to have the rating current, and in order to do that you may need the class 2 medical for the renewal paperwork to go through

A final option is to look into getting an NPPL(A) on the basis of your current licence. Again, would require some training and a test, and is only guaranteed for use on EASA aircraft until April 2019, but it's an option if it's the only medical you can get.

Looking at Part-Med, the wording to go with your restriction is

OML Valid only as or with qualified co-pilot This applies to crew members who do not meet the medical requirements for single crew operations, but are fit for multi-crew operations. Applicable to class 1 medical certificates only.
So, although you are limited to no single pilot commercial ops, you may be fine with getting a class 2 medical. I'm not an AME, but it could simply be they apply this restriction to all pilots over 60, as over that age you cannot do single pilot commercial ops anyway.

Last edited by RTN11; 19th Aug 2018 at 19:11.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 19:07
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As I haven't been in the light aircraft or GA environment for some time - a spell of training will not go amiss. I don't intend to short cut. I don't expect having a problem with the medical as I currently have a class 1 (to be renewed this week or a class 2 obtained). Many thanks again.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 20:17
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The OML restriction only applies to the Class 1 medical. Your Class 2 privileges are unrestricted.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 20:59
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Thanks top overhaul - that's good to know.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 21:45
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As you have a Class 1 retain your ATPL, don't change it to a PPL. Just renew your SEP Class rating and if you subsequently drop to a Class 2, your PPL privileges are still good on your ATPL. Assuming you have an EASA licence you can also get a UK licence issued for a small additional fee.
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 22:48
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Others have covered the legalities. Just a few thoughts from flying with the odd recently ex-ATPL getting back into little aeroplane flying.

- Attitudes will be all different to what you've been used to in recent years.
- You CAN use more than 30 degrees of bank
- Some checks (airfield approach, en-route, pre-manoeuvering) checks need memorising again
- You may find that after years of IFR nav, you need to recalibrate to navigating visually again, and orienting in whatever your local area is. Extend that also to the good old PFL, which you may not have flown for some decades.
- Don't forget you don't have a co-pilot to give jobs to any more.
- Checklists out in flight, particularly in the circuit / approach / landing is a big no-no going back to flying single pilot.
- If you haven't already, spend 40 to get a UK ATPL issued on the back of your EASA ATPL. That will then automatically have IR(R) [the old IMCR] privileges embedded, at least for Annex II aeroplanes.
- Join the LAA, it's where all the fun stuff is going on (or BMAA if you have a taste for more fun, and less weight).

Enjoy, stay in touch here.

G
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Old 19th Aug 2018, 22:55
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Wise words from Genghis!

400Jet, I sent you a PM. You may not get it as you have fewer than 10 posts?
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Old 21st Aug 2018, 20:07
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is it not 1119C, for a renewal and 1119B for a revalidation?
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Old 21st Aug 2018, 21:07
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I haven't flown light aircraft for years
No disrespect, but I would seriously recommend a good 5-6 hours of solid stick & rudder flying under instruction - ideally in all weathers. I say this because my ex-ATPL instructor recently failed two 20,000+ captains on PPL check-rides (ASES and ASEL); both Lufthansa Captains ironically.

Enjoy the transition! Fly safe!
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 08:20
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is it not 1119C, for a renewal and 1119B for a revalidation?
1119C For Renewal by the CAA when rating cannot be signed by Examiner (SRG1119D or SRG1107 Course Completion Certificate required)
1119B For Revalidation by CAA when the rating cannot be signed by the Examiner
1119E for notification of Revalidation by experience only when the rating signed by Examiner
An Examiner can sign the rating for Renewal if its in Section XII of the licence, the only form for notification is 1157
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 12:32
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Originally Posted by er340790 View Post
No disrespect, but I would seriously recommend a good 5-6 hours of solid stick & rudder flying under instruction - ideally in all weathers. I say this because my ex-ATPL instructor recently failed two 20,000+ captains on PPL check-rides (ASES and ASEL); both Lufthansa Captains ironically.

Enjoy the transition! Fly safe!
I thought that was what our man meant when he said...

Originally Posted by 400jet
a spell of training will not go amiss
He sounds to be showing exactly the right attitude and sense of realism to me.

G
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 14:32
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I retired a couple of years ago and apart from a couple of flights with friends and a few glider launches I have not been anywhere near aircraft - FWIW 20k plus mil/civ. All that being said I have been looking at getting back into light aircraft but as yet have not found a club/school that really inspires me too much. About ten years ago, no, make that fifteen years, I went through the process of revalidating PPL privilages at Staverton - flew twice with a CFI, about one hour fifty total and he signed me up though it should be remembered I was in full flying practice at the time. After a couple of years away I would prefer some gentle refresher training with a suitably qualified instructor who could sign me up at the appropriate time. If anyone reads this who is so qualifed within 50 miles of Sywell, then PM me and maybe we could sort something out - no interest in aeros, just good old stick and rudder with a view to a share in something old and interesting.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 17:37
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I just dropped you an email beamer (I've given up on PMs as the mailbox is so tiny and always needs emptying).

G
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Old 24th Aug 2018, 08:10
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Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer View Post
I just dropped you an email beamer (I've given up on PMs as the mailbox is so tiny and always needs emptying).

G
Nothing received Ghengis !
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Old 25th Aug 2018, 09:50
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Do you want to try sending me an email through PPRuNe, and see if that works?

G
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Old 25th Aug 2018, 10:43
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To add to the good advice about, I would refresh your knowledge on air law, does anyone have any reccomendations.

Oddly I have come across someone in a similar situation a UK ATPL holder, but the ATPL has lapsed. Can the UK ATPL be renewed, with a class 2 medical or without any medical?
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