Survey: 2018, Instructor's terms and conditions on a changing market?
Join Date: Dec 2014
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I've heard advice to the contrary; that some recruiters are looking at what you've been doing in your spare/unemployed time. From what I understood, it seems that a fATPL holder who goes back to Tesco stocking shelves is looked upon less favorably than the guy who goes out and tows banners or gliders or whatever. Time in the air is time in the air and is experience under your belt. I think it was Captain Joe's video that mentioned this.
trust me, because I’ve done it, that 00s of hours instructing circuits in a Cessna have no relevance to airliner flying. You will peak in your ability to fly a heading at 90kts, then quite often you get worse as it’s a bit boring after a while.
i would agree that any flying job is better than Tesco’s though, but I wouldn’t want more than say 2000 hrs at the end of it, as alluded to above, some airlines see that as negative training.
now if you were a multi IR instructor flying raw data ILS to minima most days, that would be good as conventional flying scans are quickly degraded in airliners and we do t do much raw data.
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Do people really rack up thousands of hours just instructing circuits in Cessnas? I would've thought that someone would be looking at expanding their repertoire after a few hundred hours of instructing, go into CPL or ME or IR stuff. I agree that getting 00s of hours just flying circuits would be boring!
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I’m not sure you are really getting into here......you’ll spend a lot of time with students in the circuit. You’ll spend a lot of time doing trial lessons. We used to sell dozens at Xmas - now those get really dull after the 100 th....
you our talk of the more advanced ratings - well they cost money. And on an instructors pay ( bearing in mind you’ve paid almost £9k for your instructors ticket ) you won’t be keen to pay for more flying. Multi engine is fairly specialised and not that common.
i think you should get that PPL before you think any further, I’m not sure you are living in the real world at present TBH.
you our talk of the more advanced ratings - well they cost money. And on an instructors pay ( bearing in mind you’ve paid almost £9k for your instructors ticket ) you won’t be keen to pay for more flying. Multi engine is fairly specialised and not that common.
i think you should get that PPL before you think any further, I’m not sure you are living in the real world at present TBH.
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Granted I am probably clueless about the "real world" of aviation and that's why I'm here, asking questions and learning about this.
However, you seem to be too focused on what the instructor is teaching... which is obviously useless in an airline environment. My point, which you seem to still miss, is that this is about evidence of the desire to and ability to teach.... are you saying this is also useless? I say it isn't, and if so, that'll make this "real world" of aviation close to the "real world" of healthcare where effective teachers are very valuable. Granted basic PPL FI pay isn't reflective of the value they bring, do you say it is the same for TRE/TRI in airlines?
As for advanced ratings, well, I think this thread already established that flight instructing pays a pittance compared to other types of jobs so if you think I was referring to getting other ratings while relying solely on FI pay, you've missed a few posts.
However, you seem to be too focused on what the instructor is teaching... which is obviously useless in an airline environment. My point, which you seem to still miss, is that this is about evidence of the desire to and ability to teach.... are you saying this is also useless? I say it isn't, and if so, that'll make this "real world" of aviation close to the "real world" of healthcare where effective teachers are very valuable. Granted basic PPL FI pay isn't reflective of the value they bring, do you say it is the same for TRE/TRI in airlines?
As for advanced ratings, well, I think this thread already established that flight instructing pays a pittance compared to other types of jobs so if you think I was referring to getting other ratings while relying solely on FI pay, you've missed a few posts.
Join Date: Dec 2014
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Well, I’m not entirely sure where you are going with this.
Are you saying PPL instructing is useful because airlines recruit potential instructors ?
airlines recruit potential captains, instructing comes later and again most airline LTCs, TRIs don’t have a light instructing background ( in current airline ), because even if they have done it before they have to do a core course and the instructors course, and, of course pass the own airline selection routine.
pilots in the airline tend to go down one of three routes - instructing on the line or sim, management or “ other peripherals “ like safety department or recruitment. Of course many choose not to go down any of those routes and just remain line pilots
Are you saying PPL instructing is useful because airlines recruit potential instructors ?
airlines recruit potential captains, instructing comes later and again most airline LTCs, TRIs don’t have a light instructing background ( in current airline ), because even if they have done it before they have to do a core course and the instructors course, and, of course pass the own airline selection routine.
pilots in the airline tend to go down one of three routes - instructing on the line or sim, management or “ other peripherals “ like safety department or recruitment. Of course many choose not to go down any of those routes and just remain line pilots
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Are you saying PPL instructing is useful because airlines recruit potential instructors ?
airlines recruit potential captains, instructing comes later and again most airline LTCs, TRIs don’t have a light instructing background ( in current airline ), because even if they have done it before they have to do a core course and the instructors course, and, of course pass the own airline selection routine.
airlines recruit potential captains, instructing comes later and again most airline LTCs, TRIs don’t have a light instructing background ( in current airline ), because even if they have done it before they have to do a core course and the instructors course, and, of course pass the own airline selection routine.
Check pilots, masquerading as instructors, tell you what you are doing wrong. Period.
A proper instructor will tell you what you are doing wrong, give reasons and demonstrate how to do it right They will also have people skills and the ability to teach!
Which of the above would you want??
A proper instructor will tell you what you are doing wrong, give reasons and demonstrate how to do it right They will also have people skills and the ability to teach!
Which of the above would you want??
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Hampshire, UK
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I'd love to be able to do my FI rating, but I just simply cant afford it right now. I'm currently flying for an airline but have loads of debt left over from all of my training etc.....whilst there's sponsorship out there to help people get their FI ratings, I know I wouldn't stand a chance in getting that sponsorship.....one of the captains I flew with was on the board for either the Air League or GAPAN and said that whilst he'd love to give me funding, the organisation wouldn't as I'm deemed as not needing help with sponsorship etc.
If schools want more instructors, then they're going to have to do something other than just offer a couple quid an hour extra.....they need to be prepared to offer bonded sponsorship so they don't lose out if the instructors walk. I'd love to get my FI rating, not to build hours or anything, but because I want to teach.
If schools want more instructors, then they're going to have to do something other than just offer a couple quid an hour extra.....they need to be prepared to offer bonded sponsorship so they don't lose out if the instructors walk. I'd love to get my FI rating, not to build hours or anything, but because I want to teach.
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Bournemouth, UK
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I'd love to be able to do my FI rating, but I just simply cant afford it right now. I'm currently flying for an airline but have loads of debt left over from all of my training etc.....whilst there's sponsorship out there to help people get their FI ratings, I know I wouldn't stand a chance in getting that sponsorship.....one of the captains I flew with was on the board for either the Air League or GAPAN and said that whilst he'd love to give me funding, the organisation wouldn't as I'm deemed as not needing help with sponsorship etc.
If schools want more instructors, then they're going to have to do something other than just offer a couple quid an hour extra.....they need to be prepared to offer bonded sponsorship so they don't lose out if the instructors walk. I'd love to get my FI rating, not to build hours or anything, but because I want to teach.
If schools want more instructors, then they're going to have to do something other than just offer a couple quid an hour extra.....they need to be prepared to offer bonded sponsorship so they don't lose out if the instructors walk. I'd love to get my FI rating, not to build hours or anything, but because I want to teach.
Join Date: Dec 2015
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Doesn't help the people who are in full time work though. I certainly couldn't give up my airline job to go on a full time course in spain/portugal and I doubt many others could either.
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Greece
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Large ATO in North Greece just upgraded their FI terms & conditions (all net):
FI PPL: Basic 1160 euro up to 35 hours then 25euro/hourFI CPL: Basic 1250 euro up to 35 hours then 35euro/hourIRI: Basic 1330 euro up to 35 hours then 40euro/hourCRI/IRI: Basic 1550 euro up to 35 hours then 50 euro/hourBasic is paid 14 times per year in Greece (strange but true, all the better)
They provide accommodation, transportation, license and medical revalidation, even some tickets home.Somebody is taking their instructors seriously...But they are quite picky about selecting their employees
FI PPL: Basic 1160 euro up to 35 hours then 25euro/hourFI CPL: Basic 1250 euro up to 35 hours then 35euro/hourIRI: Basic 1330 euro up to 35 hours then 40euro/hourCRI/IRI: Basic 1550 euro up to 35 hours then 50 euro/hourBasic is paid 14 times per year in Greece (strange but true, all the better)
They provide accommodation, transportation, license and medical revalidation, even some tickets home.Somebody is taking their instructors seriously...But they are quite picky about selecting their employees
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Bournemouth, UK
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Nurse2Pilot, I'll PM you some details, all I am going to say is that the course I took bonded me for the FI course and IRI including hour building and they paid me from day one. They offer flexible working contracts and good incentives for working overtime, there's lots of work so you'll never not be busy!
If anyone is actually interested in working UK/Portugal and has at least a CPL send me a PM and I will give them more details as we are recruiting for both our bases for qualified pilots with and without a FI rating.
@ Nurse2Pilot Your inbox is full apparently so drop me a PM when you free up some space.
If anyone is actually interested in working UK/Portugal and has at least a CPL send me a PM and I will give them more details as we are recruiting for both our bases for qualified pilots with and without a FI rating.
@ Nurse2Pilot Your inbox is full apparently so drop me a PM when you free up some space.
Last edited by Luminance; 30th Oct 2018 at 18:50.
