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Is an ATPL equal to BSc or BA?

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Is an ATPL equal to BSc or BA?

Old 14th Jun 2017, 15:31
  #41 (permalink)  
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Button push and tango...Try the following

Surrey University
University of Higlands and Islands
loughborough University
Westminster University

or follow the link:

https://www.findamasters.com/masters...ion+management

These can be done over one year full time and two years part time. also as of September 2016 you can get a student loan for a masters.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 19:23
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Like someone said earlier, who cares?
I have a surveying degree which I have never used and an ATPL that I use daily.
Degrees come in all shapes and sizes. Since the polytechnics were allowed university status we have seen some crazy degree courses that really are nonsense. Child care is one that makes me laugh as a friend I know is doing this course and only having to complete barely 2 days per week at uni. Take into account the holidays and this could easily be done in 12 months full time.

I have never seen my ATPL as equivalent to another qualification as it doesn't change the price of fish. Who cares.
Is it that some people want as many letters from the alphabet after their name? If this is the case they probably won't be very good pilots!
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 21:18
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Button push ignored,

Does the airline belong to you as it can be read in such a way?

Going back to the original question of an ATPL qualifying for a higher education certificate I cannot believe anyone would plan on getting an ATPL in order to continue education past this onto a degree program.
An ATPL as others have said is not just about doing some exams and a little bit of flying.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 22:08
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Push button,

I see and totally agree with blocked roads.....
Having an ATPL (your kids) and making it in the airline industry perhaps as a BA captain is not a bad life surely. Well paid and the work is not too arduous and continuing on from there may not require further qualification.
Pilots generally do not make good executives. We are pilots as we enjoy flying. If it's an executive job you think your children want then don't let them become pilots.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 09:03
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Such policies clearly expose universities and their students to a significant degree of risk, as the BSc provides significant value in preparation for an MSc, but I have certainly met students doing the part time MSc in air transport management at City who do not have a first degree. They were however all seasoned industry professionals with appropriate licences - and thus presumably satisfied the university, at application then interview, that they were up to it.

I'd be surprised if City would even seriously consider somebody with just GCSEs and an fATPL, for entirely sound reasons.

This is from City's website...

What you need:

A professional licence, for example an Air Transport Pilot’s Licence, Aircraft Engineer Licence, Air Traffic Controller Licence, or similar
To be employed in the aviation industry for at least two years.
Successful completion of the Induction Workshop (IW). The mandatory IW to our MSc programmes must be passed and will assess the English capability and writing skills required for the MSc programme.

Please note:

You do not need a Bachelors degree to study this programme
The IW runs four times a year, twice in London and twice in Dubai. The fee for the IW is 500
This is from Cranfield's...

A first or upper second class UK Honours degree (or equivalent) in any relevant discipline. A lower qualification plus a number of years' relevant working experience may be accepted as equivalent.

Applicants who do not fulfil the standard entry requirements can apply for the Pre-Masters programme, successful completion of which will qualify them for entry to this course for a second year of study.
So my reading would be that they are being sensible in allowing a route for industry professionals, who can demonstrate equivalent standards of learning and intellect to a bachelors graduate, to directly enter the MSc.

G
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 14:41
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Going back to the question of equivalence... one taste test would be to ask if an ATPL with years of experience, upon wanting a change, could get onto a PGCE course or GTTR placement by offering the licence as the 'degree'. Not when I was interviewing candidates for PGCE places. (They wouldn't be at interview, but you get my drift.)

CG
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 15:33
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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A lot of that then comes down to "equivalent for what".

Is my BEng equivalent to a BA? Technically yes. However, nobody but an eejit would accept me onto a postgraduate degree in most humanities subjects, nor a BA History graduate onto a postgraduate degree in Engineering.

So an ATPL + industry experience *can* be equivalent to a bachelors degree, very narrowly and specifically, for admission to an MSc in air transport management. But I'd not accept them onto an MSc in aerospace engineering, as they clearly won't have most of the undergraduate engineering knowledge I would want to see.

The PGCE's interesting - I think that the big question would be whether you'd accept that ATPL holder on the basis of their subject knowledge. For most secondary subjects - I'm sure absolutely not. For, say, primary teaching, maybe a case could be made? If the plan is to use the course for teaching ATPL groundschool at somewhere like BNU - why not?

G
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 19:19
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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G, that's a bit disappointing coming from an academic! First, I'm positive you don't really mean that primary teaching is simple, so any qual will do. I'm offended! Then, using PGCE to teach ATPL: massive overkill I think; but worse, is that the pilot is now a fully qualified school teacher who can go anywhere and apply for jobs. For supply, the school probably won't know his 'subject'.

On a 'them's the rules' basis, accreditation for prior learning doesn't apply in PGCE- you have to be a grad.

CG

(Whispers, a BEng is far superior to a BA!)
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 20:46
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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I don't suggest that primary teaching is simple - but it doesn't require deep subject knowledge, therefore presumably you don't need trainee teachers to have that knowledge, just a high quality individual who can learn how to do that sort of teaching and pastoral care?

Surely the universities who are teaching ATPL subjects in house are using PGCE or PGCert in same way they do for other subject matter instructors? (I did the PGCert when I was a university lecturer - which is more tailored to adult learners).

G
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 22:06
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Is an ATPL equal to BSc or BA?
No.

End of.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 10:45
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Re query on ATPL and degree standard: When I did my Brit ATPL over 50-years ago I seem to recall the written exams being held over 5-days and 13 subjects. The only aid you were allowed was a pocket slide-rule, and there were no multi-choice papers; it was all hand-written. They even had Navigators licences in those days, which were even tougher than the ATPL. I considered this question myself in my young days and went off to university as a mature student to study aeronautical engineering - and found that the ATPL studies were no more than first year studies for a BSc student. Even so, I would suggest the ATPL is a good primer.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 13:28
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks, Beagle - just what I said nearly 50 posts ago.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 07:40
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Be interesting to revisit this in the current climate.
With many professional pilots out of work, I suspect there will be a significant number who will look to other industries.
The main hurdle being, that for many other industry applications, the requirement is to be educated to level 5/6, through academia or 'equivalent industry qualification'. However, I think the whole point of this original post is not whether an ATPL holder with 20 years experience should be credited with a level 6 status, but moreover that nobody has the faintest idea what level an ATPL sits at.
It may well only sit at Level 4 or 5 (GCSE/A-Level?), but if so, at least we know........
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 11:32
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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I think plenty of people know, and several have commented about this in the previous posts in this thread, but publishing said level may be embarrassing for many posters here....
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 12:00
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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I believe BEagle and jhieminga to be correct.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 15:47
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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I agree with BEagle Jhieminga & Bergerie1 ...

However, to use Bill Clinton's trick, it may be worth revisiting the meaning of "equivalent"?

Although we recognise that the two are not academically equivalent, they may be accepted - at least by some - as equivalent enough, for certain employment considerations. Which is probably all that those affected are interested in?
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 18:40
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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NQF level 3 is A-level. Level 4 HNC and Level 5 Foundation degree.

Although not directly comparable, would you say a qualified train driver is degree level educated?
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 20:08
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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'A' level 600hrs over two years. Same time PPL studies say 40 hrs.
I did HNC in Mech. and production engineering, day release spread over five years. I did my ATPL studies over two months at home and took the exams. Then one month for the 12 odd tech subjects back in 1988.
Both courses had taken about 450 hours study each. I think nowhere near what would be required for a degree say 4000 hrs of study.

Still plenty of time to study, one of my club customers passed away aged 96 recently. At age 50 he had to do a degree to maintain his pay grade as a psychiatric nurse.
Had been in that job since he left the RAF as pilot in 1946.

Funny as i typed this adverts for Staffordshire uni on the right appear. Never knew they had a Uni. Very educational this internet stuff.

Last edited by BigEndBob; 30th Jun 2020 at 20:25.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 23:01
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flyingkeyboard View Post
NQF level 3 is A-level. Level 4 HNC and Level 5 Foundation degree.

Although not directly comparable, would you say a qualified train driver is degree level educated?
There's a handy government guide to qualification levels here:https://www.gov.uk/what-different-qu...ication-levels

It doesn't contradict you, but does expand a lot.

G
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 11:35
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks Genghis, that is quite an illuminating site. Sadly, it made no mention of my cycling proficiency or swimming badges ;(
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