Are instructor seminars a thing of the past
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Are instructor seminars a thing of the past
I am wondering if an instructor seminars have any value, I say this from the point of view of an experienced instructor and ATPL.
My first point is if I can pass the FI renewal, why do I need a seminar, I have met the standard.
Other professions have CPD (continued professional development) where you have to achieve, a number of CPD credits over the year or two years. For example the Law Society requires solicitors, to complete a number of CPD credits There are a number of options depending on a solicitors speciality.
For example, if the CAA stated I needed 12 CPD points every two years, I could attend by way of example a CRM course (say 6 CPD points) and maritime or mountain survival course (6 CPD points).
So my questions are:
(a) Do experienced instructors get much value from Instructors Seminars anymore?
(b) What do inexperienced instructors think of Instructor Seminars?
(c) Why can Instructor Seminars not be an online activity?
My first point is if I can pass the FI renewal, why do I need a seminar, I have met the standard.
Other professions have CPD (continued professional development) where you have to achieve, a number of CPD credits over the year or two years. For example the Law Society requires solicitors, to complete a number of CPD credits There are a number of options depending on a solicitors speciality.
For example, if the CAA stated I needed 12 CPD points every two years, I could attend by way of example a CRM course (say 6 CPD points) and maritime or mountain survival course (6 CPD points).
So my questions are:
(a) Do experienced instructors get much value from Instructors Seminars anymore?
(b) What do inexperienced instructors think of Instructor Seminars?
(c) Why can Instructor Seminars not be an online activity?
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Bose-x has a point. However, they are far too long (2 days) and puffed up to cover that time,very expensive when all costs considered,and of limited learning/training value.now add an Examiner seminar as well....
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The past never had instructor seminars, nothing seems to have changed having them. Managed 20 years without them and examiner seminar.
Having been in GA sine 1978 I get more disheartened every year as to the complete disorganisation of licencing and medicals etc.
The whole lot needs to start from scratch, with a common sense approach.
Having been in GA sine 1978 I get more disheartened every year as to the complete disorganisation of licencing and medicals etc.
The whole lot needs to start from scratch, with a common sense approach.
The whole lot needs to start from scratch, with a common sense approach.
It appears to be the CAA's position to continue to follow the EU rules even after Brexit, so how would you propose this revolutionary change? There are few if any people left in the system with any relevant knowledge to champion a common sense approach. There is no money and no incentive to change anything; they will simply bumble along stirring the porridge whilst things get worse. They can't even sort out the new ATO/DTO proposals ready for 2018.
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BigEndBob.....
I might be wrong but one thing changed after seminars, we had a few inexperienced instructors flying 'turn back EFATOs' with tragic outcomes'. I can not imagine where they got that great idea from!
I would add that the relationship in the past between the CAA and and the seminars trainers/provider, I do of course refer to two senior CAA staff who upon retirement set themelves as up as seminar trainers/providers such as Capt. A.K and Capt. M.G.
Whopity.....
What a great way to describe it as 'stirring porridge'. I think we need to move away from this seminar culture, and think out of the box rather than tick the box. For example, reading AAIB reports on a regular basis is more worthwile, yet I wonder how many instructors do that. Again, the seminar requirement could be met within the flying club or airfield, facilitated by a CFI with a two hour standards meeting every three months. Alternatively why not simply have the option to self study modules. All this would save travel, hotac, endless coffee breaks, buffets and being told how to suck eggs.
i believe the CAA staff will always have seminars because they know it will provide them with cudos and extra income in retirement.
I might be wrong but one thing changed after seminars, we had a few inexperienced instructors flying 'turn back EFATOs' with tragic outcomes'. I can not imagine where they got that great idea from!
I would add that the relationship in the past between the CAA and and the seminars trainers/provider, I do of course refer to two senior CAA staff who upon retirement set themelves as up as seminar trainers/providers such as Capt. A.K and Capt. M.G.
Whopity.....
What a great way to describe it as 'stirring porridge'. I think we need to move away from this seminar culture, and think out of the box rather than tick the box. For example, reading AAIB reports on a regular basis is more worthwile, yet I wonder how many instructors do that. Again, the seminar requirement could be met within the flying club or airfield, facilitated by a CFI with a two hour standards meeting every three months. Alternatively why not simply have the option to self study modules. All this would save travel, hotac, endless coffee breaks, buffets and being told how to suck eggs.
i believe the CAA staff will always have seminars because they know it will provide them with cudos and extra income in retirement.
Last edited by Homsap; 8th Mar 2017 at 10:31.
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It appears to be the CAA's position to continue to follow the EU rules even after Brexit
Has any real thought been given to that statement from the CAA's perspective?
It just seems on first reading that there are so many things wrong with that sentence (not you!) regarding the efficacy of that being a viable proposition.
Separately, the idea of CPD for pilots is an interesting thought. I must admit I quite enjoy meeting others on the seminars and the necessary night away for a quiet meal and drink somewhere different from home ... !
I have always found value from the seminars and generally have learned something new.
The trouble with CPD is that, unless it's signed off, it can be abused (that is, not carried out). I know I'm an assessor for a professional institution in another life ...
Has any real thought been given to that statement from the CAA's perspective?
Following the referendum on EU membership there will be no immediate change to civil aviation regulation nor the CAA's role in the EU and in relation to the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) framework.
The UK continues to be a part of the European single market for aviation. Over the last three decades this single market has led to additional connectivity and competition and has lowered fares for consumers. This is underpinned by a range of market-wide safety, security and consumer protection measures.
The CAA will now be working closely with the Department for Transport in assisting the UK Government as negotiations on exiting the EU progress. We will ensure that Government is fully appraised of the consumer and industry benefits provided by the current arrangements and specifically in relation to our continued role within the EASA framework and the European Common Aviation Area.
The UK continues to be a part of the European single market for aviation. Over the last three decades this single market has led to additional connectivity and competition and has lowered fares for consumers. This is underpinned by a range of market-wide safety, security and consumer protection measures.
The CAA will now be working closely with the Department for Transport in assisting the UK Government as negotiations on exiting the EU progress. We will ensure that Government is fully appraised of the consumer and industry benefits provided by the current arrangements and specifically in relation to our continued role within the EASA framework and the European Common Aviation Area.
Copied from a reply to previous thread:
I think that I have an open mind and enjoy receiving all sorts of training but unfortunately I have to say that I have never left a two-day Instructor Seminar feeling that I have learned anything that will markedly improve my technique or expand my knowledge. This is not the fault of On Track who have a well-qualified and experienced cadre of lecturers but rather due to the somewhat mundane subject material. 'Effects of Controls', 'Navigation', 'Stalling', 'EASA part FCL' and 'Carb Icing' were some of the more memorable items covered.
I would much prefer to learn about: iPads in GA cockpits, Sky Demon, Garmin and Avidyne EFIS displays, Single-pilot CRM, Lessons learned from recent light aircraft accidents, SERA, GNSS approaches, etc.
The seminars do however give one an opportunity to converse with like-minded pilots and therefore hear a few interesting stories over coffee. I don't begrudge the fee and the two days spent, as I need to tick two out of three boxes, but I do wish the exercise was more useful!
I think that I have an open mind and enjoy receiving all sorts of training but unfortunately I have to say that I have never left a two-day Instructor Seminar feeling that I have learned anything that will markedly improve my technique or expand my knowledge. This is not the fault of On Track who have a well-qualified and experienced cadre of lecturers but rather due to the somewhat mundane subject material. 'Effects of Controls', 'Navigation', 'Stalling', 'EASA part FCL' and 'Carb Icing' were some of the more memorable items covered.
I would much prefer to learn about: iPads in GA cockpits, Sky Demon, Garmin and Avidyne EFIS displays, Single-pilot CRM, Lessons learned from recent light aircraft accidents, SERA, GNSS approaches, etc.
The seminars do however give one an opportunity to converse with like-minded pilots and therefore hear a few interesting stories over coffee. I don't begrudge the fee and the two days spent, as I need to tick two out of three boxes, but I do wish the exercise was more useful!
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eckhard....
Some good points about the course content. The best two modules I attended was a presentation by the met office and a briefing from special branch (post 9/11). You are completely right about some of the mundane sunbjects.
I also agree on keeping up to date with new technologies, human factors and the way we teach. On the later point even the Royal Air Force, I understand are looking ways to improve the way they train.
To add to that, I don't think instructors make enough use of technology, for example PC based radio aids navigation training (RANT) is a brilliant teaching and practice aid for NDB/VOR intercepts, tracking and holding, yet how many instructors use it. I'm not sure if many of the seminar instructors with exception of one (DO) are best placed to keep us up to date on technology.
Some good points about the course content. The best two modules I attended was a presentation by the met office and a briefing from special branch (post 9/11). You are completely right about some of the mundane sunbjects.
I also agree on keeping up to date with new technologies, human factors and the way we teach. On the later point even the Royal Air Force, I understand are looking ways to improve the way they train.
To add to that, I don't think instructors make enough use of technology, for example PC based radio aids navigation training (RANT) is a brilliant teaching and practice aid for NDB/VOR intercepts, tracking and holding, yet how many instructors use it. I'm not sure if many of the seminar instructors with exception of one (DO) are best placed to keep us up to date on technology.
Professional Student
i believe the CAA staff will always have seminars because they know it will provide them with cudos and extra income in retirement.
I also found the content highly relevant! Some of the presentations were on GPS approaches and the latest EASA missives, for example.
Prehaps you guys are going to the wrong seminars
I'm relatively new to the instructing game - about 5 years, but have been to several seminars, both aeroplane and microlight in that time and the odd one before. For what it's worth, one of my qualifications is as a university lecturer, so I've spent quite a lot of my life thinking about best practices in teaching and learning.
I've seen an interesting mix, some of which I think is exceptionally good, some of which I think is dreadful rubbish.
Nav's an interesting point. I've been in the last 3 years to one seminar where an extremely experienced instructor/examiner was telling us that everything we should do should be WW2 style DR, and another where a nearly as experienced instructor/examiner was advocating that we should stop using paper charts and old fashioned DR, and teach students to do everything with GPS.
I've been droned at with dreadful examples of "chalk and talk", I've very occasionally seen active audience participation.
I've seen state of the art rigorous research presented, and I've seen theory that was probably getting old the year I was born.
I've had huge packs of useful material to take away and use, and I've had a meagre couple of sheets of vague reminders I've also had a pack of material that seemed to be basically somebody's "brain dump" with no real thought about how we might use it.
What I've not seen very much of is "ordinary" instructors being facilitated in sharing their own recent experiences and lessons learned. It seems to be the working assumption that nobody who has been instructing less than 20 years has anything to say worth listening to.
What I've usually seen, and is hellishly useful, is updates on air law as it keeps changing, and at a recent BMAA seminar on hangar security and trying not to get your Rotax 912 nicked.
Basically, there's not a level playing field, nor any clear picture of best practice. I think that the good sessions are very useful - I've not yet been to enough yet to consistently predict the bad ones.
G
I've seen an interesting mix, some of which I think is exceptionally good, some of which I think is dreadful rubbish.
Nav's an interesting point. I've been in the last 3 years to one seminar where an extremely experienced instructor/examiner was telling us that everything we should do should be WW2 style DR, and another where a nearly as experienced instructor/examiner was advocating that we should stop using paper charts and old fashioned DR, and teach students to do everything with GPS.
I've been droned at with dreadful examples of "chalk and talk", I've very occasionally seen active audience participation.
I've seen state of the art rigorous research presented, and I've seen theory that was probably getting old the year I was born.
I've had huge packs of useful material to take away and use, and I've had a meagre couple of sheets of vague reminders I've also had a pack of material that seemed to be basically somebody's "brain dump" with no real thought about how we might use it.
What I've not seen very much of is "ordinary" instructors being facilitated in sharing their own recent experiences and lessons learned. It seems to be the working assumption that nobody who has been instructing less than 20 years has anything to say worth listening to.
What I've usually seen, and is hellishly useful, is updates on air law as it keeps changing, and at a recent BMAA seminar on hangar security and trying not to get your Rotax 912 nicked.
Basically, there's not a level playing field, nor any clear picture of best practice. I think that the good sessions are very useful - I've not yet been to enough yet to consistently predict the bad ones.
G
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Yes there are good and bad points ... but the good things that spring to mind over the years are:
1. I found out about Skydemon through taliking to one of the other blokes when it first came out;
2. Interesting lecture by a well-known RAF medical officer;
3. EASA information and handouts, when no one knew much about it (I presume that hasn't changed ... ?!);
4. Updates on air law;
5. General chat and exchange of ideas with other instructors and examiners; and
6. Met people I'd not seen for years ...
Oh ... and I got a bit of paper that said I'd attended ...
1. I found out about Skydemon through taliking to one of the other blokes when it first came out;
2. Interesting lecture by a well-known RAF medical officer;
3. EASA information and handouts, when no one knew much about it (I presume that hasn't changed ... ?!);
4. Updates on air law;
5. General chat and exchange of ideas with other instructors and examiners; and
6. Met people I'd not seen for years ...
Oh ... and I got a bit of paper that said I'd attended ...
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Spanner...
With reference to the medical lecture are you refering to MB, and is he still doing the rounds. I recall he used to wear a bowtie, make jokes which probabably would inappropriate today and he didn't seem to like psychologists from what I remember, although with the introduction of human factors he mellowed.
Lectures on aviation medicine are always worthwhile whoever the AME is, we had an excellent module on aviation medicine by SL (AME at BHX) as part of my instructor's ground school. Really nice chap.
With reference to the medical lecture are you refering to MB, and is he still doing the rounds. I recall he used to wear a bowtie, make jokes which probabably would inappropriate today and he didn't seem to like psychologists from what I remember, although with the introduction of human factors he mellowed.
Lectures on aviation medicine are always worthwhile whoever the AME is, we had an excellent module on aviation medicine by SL (AME at BHX) as part of my instructor's ground school. Really nice chap.
I had lunch with MB last year and can vouch for the bow tie and mellowed views on psychology.
An engineer's threshold for bad jokes is such that I doubt I would ever notice.
Hellishly bright bloke. Interesting views on cabin air contamination.
G
An engineer's threshold for bad jokes is such that I doubt I would ever notice.
Hellishly bright bloke. Interesting views on cabin air contamination.
G