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Is it still possible to get a UK PPL issued

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Is it still possible to get a UK PPL issued

Old 23rd Oct 2016, 06:35
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Is it still possible to get a UK PPL issued

NPPL holder who owns a annex 2 aircraft And would like to get a IMC rating. However he doesn't meet the requirements to hold an EASA class 1 or class 2 medical. However he does meet the medical requirements (self declaration) to be able to hold a UK PPL. So is it still possible to get a UK PPL initial issued and with a medical self declaration?

And if so what forms?
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Old 23rd Oct 2016, 09:09
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Several points about this as I understand it and I may be wrong:
The CAA can only issue EASA licences.
Can't be many Annex II aircraft approved for flight in IMC (yet).
Can only fly EASA aircraft on a UK PPL until April 2018.
Is it a good idea for someone who can't hold a class 2 to fly passengers in IMC?
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Old 23rd Oct 2016, 11:00
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The CAA can only issue EASA licences.
The CAA can issue EASA licences in accordance with Part FCL and National Licences in accordance with the ANO(2016) Schedule 8. If you hold a Medical Declaration you may exercise the privileges of a UK PPL as per Schedule 8:
(5) The holder of a licence who does not have a medical certificate and relies on satisfying the requirements of paragraph (3) may only exercise the privileges of the licence—
(a) in an aircraft with a maximum take-off mass of 5,700kg or less;
(b) with not more than three passengers on board;
(c) by day or when exercising the privileges of a night rating;
(d) in visual meteorological conditions or when exercising the privileges of an instrument meteorological conditions rating; and
(e) within the United Kingdom unless the holder has the permission of the competent authority for the airspace in which the aircraft is being flown.
There do not appear to be any "National" Forms!
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Old 23rd Oct 2016, 17:45
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I said that I might be wrong!

Think I might have something with the EASA and permit aircraft in IMC though?
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Old 23rd Oct 2016, 21:52
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EASA has nothing whatever to do with 'permit' aircraft. All aspects (certification, licensing, etc.) of any aircraft that is described in Annex II to Regulation 216/2008 is regulated solely by the national authority.

Why should a pilot's ability to hold an EASA Class 2 medical certificate have any relevance to his/her competence to fly an aircraft safely in IMC as opposed to VMC?

The holder of a UK PPL(A) can also hold an IMC, IR and/or FI rating, although they will be valid only on Annex II aircraft after 8 April 2018.

There are a few Annex II aircraft certified for flight under IFR - DC3 and DC6 spring most immediately to mind. There is life beyond the Cessna 150, you know.

To return to the original question: Yes, it is possible to get a UK PPL(A)issued with a self declaration (see CAP1441). There is currently no form for initial issue but SRG 1190 comes close. SRG 1210 for the medical declaration
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Old 24th Oct 2016, 07:50
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UK PPL plus FI Rating.

BB

Are you sure that the holder of a UK PPL(A) with medical declaration can exercise the privileges of an FI?
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Old 24th Oct 2016, 09:48
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I would not be sure about the willingness of the CAA to issue a national licence at all (I understand that the legislation does allow it, though).
Renewing your licence or changing the details on your licence

If you hold a JAR licence, or a UK national licence containing EASA ratings, and you apply for it to be renewed or to change details such as your address, you will have to convert to an EASA licence and pay a conversion fee in addition to the fees for the rest of your application.

Regarding the medical issue, I'm sorry but you may say the same about any licence or rating. Just because my passenger pays for me to fly them, what relevance does me having to have a class one have on my competence? It's about duty of care and the more challenging nature of the act - single pilot, single engine IFR in IMC outside controlled airspace is the most challenging and, in my opinion (because I've done it and I'd rather not) risky flying you can do in the UK. Opinion is all I'm giving.

If the annex II/EASA comment was meant for me, of course EASA has nothing to do with annex II aircraft. As an owner of an annex II aircraft myself, I know that according to the LAA the RV6/7 are the only aircraft likely to be approved without individual inspection.
http://http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TechnicalLeaflets/Operating%20An%20Aircraft/TL%202.28%20Night%20IFR%20assessment.pdf
If the person in the OP has access to a DC3 or 6, then fine, though I guess a type rating is in order.
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Old 24th Oct 2016, 16:29
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Many thanks for everyone replies.

FCL have been spoken to today and they said that they are not able to issue UK PPL’s anymore.

Of course they could be wrong and one only has to read some of these forums to see that on occasions that is the case - and some people may feel that my choice of words is being kind here.

Having also read CAP 1414 Page 15 and 16. It states

“We recommend that any existing NPPL holders who wish to gain IMC rating privileges or fly aircraft up to 5700kgs, who ceased flying on a UK PPL due to medical reasons, either make a declaration under the new process (which will come in later this year) and renew the ratings on their UK PPL (if they are still in possession of it) or if necessary apply for a new one.”

So maybe there is a little more mileage left in this. So if anyone could shed anymore light on the matter or tell me of the definitive source that they are no longer able to issue UK PPL’s it would be appreciated.

As for them being fit to fly in IMC or not. Well I am not an AME and it wouldn’t be appropriate to discuss the Px medical condition here. However I am of the opinion that they do meet the requirements for an FAA class one medical.
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Old 24th Oct 2016, 19:42
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You could meet all the requirements for EASA licence issue and then if they refuse to issue a licence that is defined in the ANO, then make a Regulatuion 6 appeal.
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Old 25th Oct 2016, 16:29
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FCL have been spoken to today and they said that they are not able to issue UK PPL’s anymore.
See Article 152 of ANO 2016
152.—(1) Subject to article 172, the CAA or a person approved by the CAA for that purpose must grant licences of any of the classes specified in Part 1 of Schedule 8, authorising the holder to act as a member of the flight crew of a non-EASA aircraft registered in the United Kingdom, if it is satisfied that the applicant is—
(a) a fit person to hold the licence; and
(b) qualified by having the knowledge, experience, competence, skill and physical and mental fitness to act in the capacity to which the licence relates.
Part 1 of Schedule 8 includes a Private Pilot Licence (Aeroplane) and the privileges of that licence include
to fly such an aeroplane for the purpose of commercial operation—
(i) which consists of instruction or flying examinations, provided that—
(aa) in the case of instruction, the licence includes an appropriate instructor certificate; and
(bb) in the case of flying examinations, the holder is authorised to conduct such examinations by the CAA
So the CAA can (nay, must) issue a UK PPL(A) to fit and qualified person and it can include an FI(A) certificate. There is nothing in Article 163 of the Order to prevent the holder of a PPL(A) with a medical declaration from exercising the privileges of an instructor certificate (or an IMC rating, IR or MEP rating come to that.)
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