Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Flying Instructors & Examiners
Reload this Page >

FTL regulation when FI and flying commercial

Flying Instructors & Examiners A place for instructors to communicate with one another because some of them get a bit tired of the attitude that instructing is the lowest form of aviation, as seems to prevail on some of the other forums!

FTL regulation when FI and flying commercial

Old 4th Oct 2016, 11:08
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
FTL regulation when FI and flying commercial

Could someone clarify the EASA FTL requirements when you are flying commercially and also giving flight instruction ?

On FTL, the flight hours limit seems to be only linked when flying to commercial with an operator.
The total flight time of the sectors on which an individual crew member is assigned as an operating crew member shall not exceed:

(1)100 hours of flight time in any 28 consecutive days;

(2)900 hours of flight time in any calendar year; and

(3) 1 000 hours of flight time in any 12 consecutive calendar months.



The only limit would be to be rested prior to any duty within your airline.
slr737 is offline  
Old 4th Oct 2016, 15:32
  #2 (permalink)  
Professional Student
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: My Secret Island Lair
Posts: 624
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
I don't believe there are any EASA FTLs specifically linked to flying instruction (but stand by to corrected). In my experience, flying schools have their own FTLs in their Ops Manual.

Or simply don't have any.
hobbit1983 is offline  
Old 4th Oct 2016, 22:05
  #3 (permalink)  
Educated Hillbilly
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: From the Hills
Posts: 978
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Hobbit,

You have misunderstood the question. For some one instructing and only instructing there are no duty limits or flight time limits.

But if you are working for an AOC holder and instruct on the side then the instructional hours need to be accounted for within the limits slr stated.

So SLR each instructional hour you do on the side would in theory count towards your 100 monthly and 1000 hour total. Some operators may not allow you to instruct on the side because of this.
portsharbourflyer is offline  
Old 5th Oct 2016, 07:48
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Here and there
Posts: 534
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
But if you are working for an AOC holder and instruct on the side then the instructional hours need to be accounted for within the limits slr stated.

So SLR each instructional hour you do on the side would in theory count towards your 100 monthly and 1000 hour total. Some operators may not allow you to instruct on the side because of this.
In the UK this is incorrect, and has been since the introduction of EASA FTLs. The UK CAA do not require the reporting of GA instructing or examining towards CAT FTLs.

Operators approved under EASA FTLs do not require non-commercial operations to be included. There was a consultation on this during the ANO Review leading to a change in CAA policy. The old ANO Article 144 has been replaced in the new Air Navigation Order with Article 174 et seq. This does not require the reporting of non-commercial flying (which includes instructing and examining) for the purposes of CAT FTLs.

However, your CAT operator may have legacy requirements included in their OM A which may currently require you to include these in your totals/days off.

ifitaint...
ifitaintboeing is offline  
Old 5th Oct 2016, 11:59
  #5 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thank ifitaint.

That's what I thought. However my operator is non-uk but Irish and they might have a different view on EASA FTL.

But i thinks the way it was designed in EASA FTL by EASA was that non commercial time was not included in your commercial limitation
slr737 is offline  
Old 5th Oct 2016, 23:00
  #6 (permalink)  
Educated Hillbilly
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: From the Hills
Posts: 978
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Apologies everyone, was thinking back to JAA days when I was doing both AOC work and instructing,
portsharbourflyer is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2017, 08:04
  #7 (permalink)  
BBK
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 471
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Ifitaintboeing at el

Old thread I know but I've had a quick look at the ANO article 174 etc but I can't see where the counting of instructional hours don't count. What I mean by that is a suitable paragraph to highlight and then request my company to look at its Ops manual for revision.

Thanks in advance.

regards

BBK

Last edited by BBK; 29th Sep 2017 at 08:52. Reason: Spelling
BBK is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2017, 13:32
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,850
Received 328 Likes on 115 Posts
EASA does not wish to rule on this - it was raised at a recent meeting and the conclusion was that it was simply a matter between the pilot and the AOC holder.
BEagle is online now  
Old 1st Oct 2017, 09:05
  #9 (permalink)  
BBK
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 471
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Hi BEagle

Thanks for that info. I'll talk to the company direct and see if they're amenable. Also, I may try the CAA as well to see if they will provide some guidance.

BBK
BBK is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2022, 10:57
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: paris
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Good morning
I was reading all answers and I have some doubts.

Let's consider the case of a pilot working for AOC holder and doing FI/FE activities on free time.
At the end of a AOC duty, to be legal, there is a rest period to be respected before starting FI/FE activity? According to FTL there is not application for NCO (ATOs etc), except if reported/requested by ATOs manual etc.
Considering the common sense (fatigue etc) I would say to respect at least home base 12hrs or last duty (if greater). But what about the legal aspect?

Second example: in case of AOC duty interesting local fuses (long haul) as for CS FTL.1.235, for ex. 3 local nights required - Is it legal to operate as FI/FE during daytime btw local nights requested by the CS?

Thanks guys
sts99 is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2022, 21:08
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bressuire
Posts: 832
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 9 Posts
At the end of a AOC duty, to be legal, there is a rest period to be respected before starting FI/FE activity? According to FTL there is not application for NCO (ATOs etc), except if reported/requested by ATOs manual etc. Considering the common sense (fatigue etc) I would say to respect at least home base 12hrs or last duty (if greater). But what about the legal aspect?
BEagle has answered this old chestnut simply and to the point. An AOC applies to its operation but nothing outside of it. The pilots free time is just that their free time. Flight instructing is considered a 'private' flight' for this purpose and therefore it does not require an AOC. Only the flying undertaken and breaks from work subject to the operation of an AOC must be included in the AOC operators logs.

There is nothing to say a pilot must "rest" in their free time. The pilot may do as they please although much of it may not be considered resting. The pilot however can be expected to turn up for work fit to do the job both by the regulator and the employer.

Last edited by Fl1ingfrog; 4th Jan 2022 at 21:32.
Fl1ingfrog is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.