Flying Instructors & Examiners A place for instructors to communicate with one another because some of them get a bit tired of the attitude that instructing is the lowest form of aviation, as seems to prevail on some of the other forums!

RFTF to ATO Progress

Old 2nd Apr 2014, 21:39
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I hear that a couple of RTFs have sucessfully made the transition to ATOs. Would be interesting to know how it went. In particular, how much of their manuals they had to write themselves, and how much came from the Template Manuals.


MJ
Mach Jump is offline  
Old 3rd Apr 2014, 12:43
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Has the CAA or anyone else made a serious attempt to find out how may RTFs will simply give up?
Captain Jock is offline  
Old 3rd Apr 2014, 18:19
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
... how may RTFs will simply give up...
Sad to say that I think it was part of the original CAA thinking that this process would eliminate the majority of RTFs, of which they had, let's say, an extremely low opinion.

I don't know if the new wind blowing through the CAA will be in time to save them.


MJ
Mach Jump is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2014, 22:44
  #44 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Age: 65
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have just read a brand new CAA IN stating they are out to issue a new improved template manual...hopefully it may make things a little easier...Dan
Danny boy is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2014, 22:52
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 6,578
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
of which they had, let's say, an extremely low opinion.
Maybe some did, but to quote the CAA guy at Northampton:
We know you guys are already doing a good job and safety is not an issue
Whopity is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2014, 00:39
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I have just read a brand new CAA IN stating they are out to issue a new improved template manual...hopefully it may make things a little easier...Dan
Dan: Yes, I read that too, and I hope so. Every little helps of course, but things need to get A WHOLE LOT EASIER to make a significant difference to the number of RTFs that will be left after this is all over.


We know you guys are already doing a good job and safety is not an issue
Whopity: I'm afraid that the CAA have a reputation for telling us whatever suits their purpose at the time, with little, if any regard for the truth.

Reminds me of that scene from 'Mars Attacks!' where the Martians go around killing everyone, at the same time saying 'Dont be afraid, we are your friends!'


MJ

Last edited by Mach Jump; 8th Apr 2014 at 01:40.
Mach Jump is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2014, 09:09
  #47 (permalink)  
GgW
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Not sure anymore….
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Has the CAA or anyone else made a serious attempt to find out how may RTFs will simply give up?
Closing up shop because they did not want to fill in the ''blank'' spots on a manual.

REALLY!!!
GgW is online now  
Old 8th Apr 2014, 10:22
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
....they did not want to fill in the ''blank'' spots on a manual.
Do you mean the blank pages where you removed parts that dont apply to you?


MJ
Mach Jump is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2014, 07:18
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It's a little more than blank spots in a manual!
Captain Jock is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2014, 16:27
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Closing up shop because they did not want to fill in the ''blank'' spots on a manual.
Ah. I think I misunderstood this comment, due to the missing question mark at the end.

GgW: Have you done a RTF-ATO conversion, or even read the ATO requirements, and the Template Manuals?

If you have we would love to hear how you got on.


MJ
Mach Jump is offline  
Old 12th May 2014, 09:47
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: midlands
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
RTF TRANSITION TO ATO

Hi everyone.

Anyone heard any news about the much awaited updated template manual?
Should have been available end of April....
gemini76 is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2014, 15:57
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Sometimes north, sometimes south
Posts: 1,809
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 1 Post
I have just emailed LTS Approvals to ask what's happened to v2 of the template manual. I'll let you know what they say.

Our situation is that our committee has decided to wind up the club, in part because of inability/unwillingness to meet the ATO requirements. So it's now down to individuals in the club to try to mount an independent rescue operation.

I've found almost no information on any of this. Is everyone just giving up? Does no-one have any experiences to share? Has anyone successfully made the transition? Does AOPA really have absolutely nothing to offer even its corporate members on this, as would appear to be the case?

NS
NorthSouth is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2014, 19:27
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,783
Received 257 Likes on 103 Posts
'Never give up - never surrender!'

Working with industry, the CAA is in the process of drafting an AltMoC which will substantially reduce the size and complexity of the template ATO manual.

I attended an EASA workshop about this 3 weeks ago - EASA will draft a new AMC for non-complex ATOs, but that will take months to become law. So they're happy for the UK CAA to draft its AltMoC, because that can be achieved sooner. Here's what the CAA wrote in CAP1192 last Sunday:

We have agreed with EASA and other Member States the potential to simplify the transition arrangements for Registered Training Facilities to become Approved Training Organisations by April 2015. It is unlikely that EASA will publish AMC material before end-2014, and have indicated that an extension to the present deadline is unlikely. We are working with AOPA and others to publish simplified transition guidance by end-September 2014.
BEagle is online now  
Old 6th Jun 2014, 17:54
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Thanks for keeping us up to date, BEagle.

...substantially reduce the size and complexity of the template ATO manual.
Can you give us any idea what form the 'substantial reductions' are likely to take?


MJ
Mach Jump is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2014, 18:38
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,783
Received 257 Likes on 103 Posts
MJ asked:
Can you give us any idea what form the 'substantial reductions' are likely to take?
Work in progress, but expect:
  • Vastly reduced 'safety' administrivial stuff - hopefully just a couple of sides of A4.
  • No need to spell out the contentes of every single training exercise in loving detail - just refer to the AMC syllabus.
  • Simplified 'post holder' requirements.

For those who might doubt the CAA's commitment, see http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/224/GA%20U...eport%20v3.pdf Also, the CAA is well aware that the new manual must be acceptable to those RFs which are 'sole traders' (one man bands!).
BEagle is online now  
Old 6th Jun 2014, 22:19
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Thanks BEagle. I know you guys have done a lot of work behind the scenes on this.

We are all just holding our breath now, to see how it turns out.


MJ


Ps.
Did I really just say that I was holding my breath on a CAA prommise? That's a first for a few decades!

Mach Jump is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.