Non Uk examiner examining UK pilot under EASA

[slr737]

Does anyone have an idea on how the CAA is going to "brief" non uk examiner that need to perform flight test on UK EASA licence?

And specially the cost involved?

thx

[BillieBob]

Indications are that it's going to be an on-line system but not sure of the cost. The current fee for a non-UK authorised examiner to examine/instruct in the UK is £630

[mad_jock]

is that a yearly thing.

And does it apply to tests taken outside the UK?

[BillieBob]

Yes, it applies to tests taken outside the UK - it applies to any test where the competent authority of the applicant is different to the one that issued the examiner's certificate.

There is no periodicity stated for the briefing - the law states that the examiner shall not conduct the test unless he has informed competent authority of his intention and has receive a briefing. On the one hand, one might consider that once a briefing has been received, that part of the requirement has been met for all future cases; on the other hand, it might be interpreted as requiring a separate briefing for each occasion. How the UK CAA will interpret the requirement remains to be seen.

[Mickey Kaye]

"Indications are that it's going to be an on-line system but not sure of the cost. The current fee for a non-UK authorised examiner to examine/instruct in the UK is £630"

Is this legal under European law? Its discriminatory.

[slr737]

At least, if it is online, they are not asking us to go to gatwick for a silly presentation.

Now if we have to pay 600 pounds, and if that goes for any other CAA. it's going to be expensive !

[proudprivate]

My take on this CAA foreign examiner fee nonsense

Indications are that it's going to be an on-line system but not sure of the cost.

Is this legal under European law?

As described by Billiebob, the system would indeed be illegal under European Law. It would violate at least three articles of the Treaty:

Article 26 (2) :

The internal market shall comprise an area without internal frontiers in which the free movement of goods, persons, services and capital is ensured in accordance with the provisions of the Treaties.

Article 34 :

Quantitative restrictions on imports and all measures having equivalent effect shall be prohibited between Member States.

relating mainly to the internal market and

Article 107 (2) :

Save as otherwise provided in the Treaties, any aid granted by a Member State or through State resources in any form whatsoever which distorts or threatens to distort competition by favouring certain undertakings or the production of certain goods shall, in so far as it affects trade between

Member States, be incompatible with the internal market.

which relates to competition law (Making foreign examiners pay when local examiners do not have to pay for a briefing is an illegal subsidy of UK examiners).

If you are a foreign examiner wishing to accomodate UK applicants (students at a UK CAA registered facility or training organisation) you should ask the UK CAA in writing

(a) What the precise cost would be
(b) What justifies this cost
(c) Whether the same cost applies to UK CAA designated examiners

Based on the answer, it is a violation of either internal market law or competition law

You can then make an official complaint to the relevant directorate at the European Commission and ask for a meeting with the relevant officials to see what their appetite is to take the UK CAA to court (which is by far the cheapest option);
or take the UK CAA directly to Court in Luxembourg. If you win your case convincingly, you also get awarded your legal costs (count on investing roughly £5,000-£10,000, depending on how much legal spadework you do yourself).

Because any EU citizen can take the UK CAA to court, and because the UK CAA cannot afford 20-odd law suits on this topic, I believe that

(a) the fee the CAA will charge will not be a recurrent fee, as it becomes much easier to demonstrate that it is an artificial trade barrier rather than a true briefing cost.

(b) the actual fee, when implemented, will likely be less than the current £630, because is will be more difficult to justify that it corresponds to the true cost of a briefing, especially if it is a mere online application, and that the costs are incurred in surplus of what they normally have to spend on briefing the existing UK CAA examiners.

[421C]

the actual fee, when implemented, will likely be less than the current

£630, because is will be more difficult to justify that it corresponds to the

true cost of a briefing, especially if it is a mere online application, and that
the costs are incurred in surplus of what they normally have to spend on
briefing the existing UK CAA examiners.

Let's also be clear there is absolutely no comparison between the fees the CAA would charge a UK examiner and the "briefing" for a non-UK examiner. The content of the latter is restricted by Part FCL to "a briefing on the national administrative procedures, requirements for protection of personal data, liability, accident insurance and fees. "

The whole point of European standardisation under EASA is...errr...that European FCL is standardised. Whatever the CAA charge £630 for to a UK examiner will have been conducted by the NAA of another country for their own examiners in fulfilment of the Aircrew regulation. Thus the CAA briefing is restricted to the very narrow subject matter in the quote above.

brgds
421C

[Whopity]

The last brief for UK Examiners was:

6. FLIGHT EXAMINER (PPL) STANDARDISATION SEMINAR
We have been notified of a one day Seminar for PPL(A) Flight Examiners to be held at Cranfield on the 28th October 2004. Although this is not a CAA requirement, it looks like a good opportunity for standardisation, to refresh Examiner techniques or to discuss changes to flight-testing procedures and it is intended that a CAA FE will be in attendance.

And that was run by ETA, a private company!

[TeeS]

421C's comments are spot on reference the scope of the briefing. When we first raised this with our authority they insisted that every non_UK examiner would have to be briefed at Gatwick. There was a portion of me that was hoping this would be carried out across Europe because I would have needed the 'grand tour' to visit the authorities that we examine for. I suspect that common sense will prevail in the end - the online system sounds sensible.

Cheers

TeeS

[S-Works]

Likewise, we employ pilots from 8 countries currently as well as third party testing for another four or so. It would be expensive and a pain for me to go through the UKs proposed hoops for all of them!

[mad_jock]

Thing and I hate to say this but some of the none UK TRE are a hellva lot better than a home grown with the paper work.

The scandis are particularly good. In fact I would say they could brief the the front desk at the CAA

[keenpilot]

Changed?

Does anyone know if this has changed or if it is still the £600 for a non UK examiner to do skills tests for UK-EASA licences? I have a UK PPL and want to get sea plane rating on to that, in another European country.

[nick14]

Have a look at the CAA website, I don't think it is that expensive if anything.

The rules have changed now anyway and they are no longer required to be briefed just get the examiner to contact them.

[jessie05]

I just revalidated my ME IR with a LBA , German examiner , and its very straightforward under EASA. The examiner emailed the UK CAA test notification team with SPECIFIC details included in the email , you can find this information on the CAA website or wherever your licence authority happens to be . The UK only asked for copies of his licence , examiner authority , and date of UK Examiner briefing. The next day my check flight was approved and didn't cost a euro , as my licence was endorsed by the examiner and hand written on my ratings page. The examiner has to fill in 4 copies of the examiner report , one of which has to be sent to the UK.
I would imagine for a brand new rating , you may have to complete an additional form and probably pay some monies for the new rating to be added to your licence. But once you have the rating , its really quite a simple process, with no fees .

jess

[3 Point]

It's really very straightforward, we use non-UK examiners all the time at work.

Look here ...

Examiners | Training and Exams | Personal Licences and Training

and you can find all you need to know about ti.

3 Point

[esuria]

non uk examiners

Hi all,

I have done a flight exam for a CAA UK holder recently so non-uk examiners are authorized by EASA regulations now,

Anyone interested in it, drop me a private,

Happy flying,

edu