What makes me employable
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What makes me employable
I have decided to through caution to the wind and change careers. I am 43 and being realistic I know that the chances of gaining employment flying hen nights to Ibiza and back are slim to non, im not sure that this is what I would want to do anyway.
So I have set my sights on FI. This is where I would like some help from you guys already out there doing it.
1) why aptl over cpl. They revert to cpl if no IR in three years yet all advice is to take aptl
2) This leads on to what should I do to have the best chance of employment? Should I look at multi, IR etc or wait and take them at a later date if needed.
I realise that earnings seem to be linked to what you are able to teach but I’m not bothered about big bucks, if such things exist as an FI, but would like to maximise my chances of gaining gainful employment.
Thanks
So I have set my sights on FI. This is where I would like some help from you guys already out there doing it.
1) why aptl over cpl. They revert to cpl if no IR in three years yet all advice is to take aptl
2) This leads on to what should I do to have the best chance of employment? Should I look at multi, IR etc or wait and take them at a later date if needed.
I realise that earnings seem to be linked to what you are able to teach but I’m not bothered about big bucks, if such things exist as an FI, but would like to maximise my chances of gaining gainful employment.
Thanks
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Tongue in cheek.....
it's not your spelling
careers should be singular
through should be throw
non should be none
im should be I'm
Having yanked your chain, I wish you the best of luck in your career change.
it's not your spelling
careers should be singular
through should be throw
non should be none
im should be I'm
Having yanked your chain, I wish you the best of luck in your career change.
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I am trying to come up with as many words for stupid as I can. Do you want to eat? Have a roof over your head? Have you seen the state of the economy and the shrinking training market? Do I need to mention the thousands of unemployed FIs who will work for less than food?
Bin the mid life crisis is the best advice you will get.
Bin the mid life crisis is the best advice you will get.
If you want to be a FI then probably nothing will put you off but don't expect to make a living out of it. FIs come from 3 sources; aspiring airline pilots who can't get a job and want to keep flying. They have already spent a large sum on their qualifications. Retiring pilots who have had condiderable time in aviation and can afford to be an FI but expect nothing back other than the flying. Thirdly, those who belive they can make a career in instructing; they struggle then economics takes over and unless you have another income they either go to the airlines or give up. Hence the ATPL versus CPL exams.
Microlight instructors do seem to make a living out of it! If you feel you must do it, try to treat it as a hobby and have a source of income to support it; you will probably never recover the cost of the qualification.
Microlight instructors do seem to make a living out of it! If you feel you must do it, try to treat it as a hobby and have a source of income to support it; you will probably never recover the cost of the qualification.
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I have my held my ppl for a few years and enjoy my flying immensely. I don’t need to make a living at instructing. I am doing it because i want to put something back and i think I would enjoy teaching. To be honest anything I made would be just going straight down the jet pipe of a jp, which is I’m sure how i will continue to avoid getting bored, though i must be honest I can never see that happening.
I know that a dark cloud hangs over the industry at the moment however like it always has in the past it will lift.
As for a mid life crisis if i was going to have one of those it would involve girls, drink and more girls
I know that a dark cloud hangs over the industry at the moment however like it always has in the past it will lift.
As for a mid life crisis if i was going to have one of those it would involve girls, drink and more girls
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Here starts my next tirade. So you don't need to make a living and will work for peanuts which then further devalues the role of the FI and drives the wages down further. Self fulfilling prophecy. Instruction does not need people like you to be frank. Neither does it need wannabee people tube drivers. It needs people who treat it as the profession that it is and will work for a proper return. That way instructor will stay motivated and the student will benefit.
Anyway that's enough of my hobby horse. My advice is forget it, spend the money on actually going flying. The cost of the CPL and FI buys you a huge amount of interesting flying. Far more fun to piss diamonds than kidney stones against the wall........
Anyway that's enough of my hobby horse. My advice is forget it, spend the money on actually going flying. The cost of the CPL and FI buys you a huge amount of interesting flying. Far more fun to piss diamonds than kidney stones against the wall........
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I am doing it because i want to put something back and i think I would enjoy teaching.
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I realise that some seem to enjoy being abrasive so I will indulge you with a bite for this last time, apologies if you are just naturally so.
Now how much shall I bet myself I will see the last comment in a nice blue box. Or perhaps I will have the pleasure of some chap I’ve never met calling me stupid when I ask for advice from those with far more knowledge on the subject than me. It is a good job I know some FI’s well because if the attitude I have found from some on here was my introduction to FI then I would indeed Bose leave you your chosen career/sorry profession.
I regard Flight instruction as extremely important, if not the most important phase in any pilots career.
I could throw a lot of money at this and whiz my way through the various courses, get myself a type rating or two, bobs your uncle fanny’s your aunt off to fly big metal things.
I don’t want to do this. I want to put something back into aviation at the level which I feel I can offer the most, a level I regard as used, rightly or wrongly by those who want to move on to different,(notice I don’t say better things bose) and which appears to be a seriously undervalued aspect of the profession. I hope I would make a good instructor who sends the next generation of pilots on their way with a good level of training and a professional regard for FI.
I’m sorry that you feel aggrieved that I don’t need to make a living from instructing, this does not mean that I would be un professional or fail to fight for the role of FI to be far more highly regarded than it is by some people. It just means that I can do the job without having to worry, or worse not be able to do it at all.
Yes like most people I would work for low wages to do a job I would love, and have done so in the past .Whilst understandably not happy about wages or professional recognition how many instructors would give up what they do, clearly not many or I would not have to ask the for advice I asked in the original post.
Now how much shall I bet myself I will see the last comment in a nice blue box. Or perhaps I will have the pleasure of some chap I’ve never met calling me stupid when I ask for advice from those with far more knowledge on the subject than me. It is a good job I know some FI’s well because if the attitude I have found from some on here was my introduction to FI then I would indeed Bose leave you your chosen career/sorry profession.
I regard Flight instruction as extremely important, if not the most important phase in any pilots career.
I could throw a lot of money at this and whiz my way through the various courses, get myself a type rating or two, bobs your uncle fanny’s your aunt off to fly big metal things.
I don’t want to do this. I want to put something back into aviation at the level which I feel I can offer the most, a level I regard as used, rightly or wrongly by those who want to move on to different,(notice I don’t say better things bose) and which appears to be a seriously undervalued aspect of the profession. I hope I would make a good instructor who sends the next generation of pilots on their way with a good level of training and a professional regard for FI.
I’m sorry that you feel aggrieved that I don’t need to make a living from instructing, this does not mean that I would be un professional or fail to fight for the role of FI to be far more highly regarded than it is by some people. It just means that I can do the job without having to worry, or worse not be able to do it at all.
Yes like most people I would work for low wages to do a job I would love, and have done so in the past .Whilst understandably not happy about wages or professional recognition how many instructors would give up what they do, clearly not many or I would not have to ask the for advice I asked in the original post.
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Code:
Instruction does not need people like you
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The value of good motivated teachers/instructors is often overlooked as they are rarely motivated by money. If you see this as a vocation, especially if even making a decent income would be difficult, then you have my respect.
hugel
hugel
I would also strongly disagree with Bose X.
When I learnt to fly in the early 1980s one of the major assets the club had were relatively experienced instructors who were happy to instruct for a hobby, normally on one day per weekend. They had regular students with whom they had a rapport, and were interested in the private flying club "scene" and could talk to the students about grass strips and air rallies etc, not just about frozen ATPLs and the depressed state of the airline job market.
When I became an instructor myself I much appreciated their presence, apart from anything else it meant that as a full time instructor I could get Sundays off (admittedly I wasn't desperate to build hours and was lucky enough to get paid a salary, rather than by the hour).
Unfortunately, the CPL requirements for instructors pretty much put an end to that, as there are very few left now. If there is someone here who is prepared to pay for a CPL and still do this sort of flying then should he not be encouraged. Although I guess that depends on whether the flying club or whatever is there for the benefit of the customers (students) or the staff.
I would say to Amonty go for it. Instructing at PPL level will never be a big money earner, but it is extremely satisfying and vastly improves your own flying skills - and if you eventually get the opportunity to move into commercial/FIC training or to become an examiner then you can make a reasonable living at it.
When I learnt to fly in the early 1980s one of the major assets the club had were relatively experienced instructors who were happy to instruct for a hobby, normally on one day per weekend. They had regular students with whom they had a rapport, and were interested in the private flying club "scene" and could talk to the students about grass strips and air rallies etc, not just about frozen ATPLs and the depressed state of the airline job market.
When I became an instructor myself I much appreciated their presence, apart from anything else it meant that as a full time instructor I could get Sundays off (admittedly I wasn't desperate to build hours and was lucky enough to get paid a salary, rather than by the hour).
Unfortunately, the CPL requirements for instructors pretty much put an end to that, as there are very few left now. If there is someone here who is prepared to pay for a CPL and still do this sort of flying then should he not be encouraged. Although I guess that depends on whether the flying club or whatever is there for the benefit of the customers (students) or the staff.
I would say to Amonty go for it. Instructing at PPL level will never be a big money earner, but it is extremely satisfying and vastly improves your own flying skills - and if you eventually get the opportunity to move into commercial/FIC training or to become an examiner then you can make a reasonable living at it.
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I predict that GA is going to become polarised into recreational and high end activity in the next few years anyway. The only employed instructors will be in the commercial and high end training side of things, and recreational GA will become more like some other European nations with the resurgence of clubs, volunteer isntructors and day VFR aircraft. The chances of anyone ever again being paid a going wage for anything other than commercial instruction are nigh on dead. Therefore if you aren't after a salaried lifestyle I'd say go for it. I wouldn't bother with a CRI at the moment unless you have particular skills to teach (e.g. LAA types) as I know stacks of CRIs who have done virtually no instruction since getting the qualification.
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Amonty, if you do get to be an FI then you will enjoy the respect of your students and they will want to book more lessons with you.
However, the School owner/bosses will hate you and do everything they can to remove you from flying. Far better for them to have a gaggle of desperate fATPL hour builders who will do what they are told, ignore aircraft faults, fly in bad weather and do as many gift vouchers flights as they possibly can as quick as they can. Oh and do it for minimum wages/free of charge too.
Top career guidance for FI's -
Don't query the boss with regard to your supervision while Restricted - there's an Unrestricted FI who "lives nearby/at another airfield/on the telephone"
Don't book the aircraft for an whole afternoon for the solo x/c - the student can do the x/c & two landaways in two slots - one at a squeeze.
Don't argue with the non flying/PPL only school boss regarding weather minima - he is far more experienced than you and the gift voucher will enjoy it
Don't sign the aircraft u/s when the non EASA Qualified school boss says it is safe to fly
Do sign off the PPL to fly the club aircraft even if he scares the living daylights out of you. He's a mate of the boss and far more experienced than you. He's flown in the US, so his handling skills are far better than yours.
Do spend seven days a week at the club from 0830 to 1900, answer the phone, wash the aeroplanes, clean the clubhouse and if you get £15 a week for the one hour you do get - be grateful!
(Disclaimer - my light-hearted cynical comments taken from folklore & reading AAIB reports and IN NO WAY REPRESENTATIVE of my own instructing experience)
However, the School owner/bosses will hate you and do everything they can to remove you from flying. Far better for them to have a gaggle of desperate fATPL hour builders who will do what they are told, ignore aircraft faults, fly in bad weather and do as many gift vouchers flights as they possibly can as quick as they can. Oh and do it for minimum wages/free of charge too.
Top career guidance for FI's -
Don't query the boss with regard to your supervision while Restricted - there's an Unrestricted FI who "lives nearby/at another airfield/on the telephone"
Don't book the aircraft for an whole afternoon for the solo x/c - the student can do the x/c & two landaways in two slots - one at a squeeze.
Don't argue with the non flying/PPL only school boss regarding weather minima - he is far more experienced than you and the gift voucher will enjoy it
Don't sign the aircraft u/s when the non EASA Qualified school boss says it is safe to fly
Do sign off the PPL to fly the club aircraft even if he scares the living daylights out of you. He's a mate of the boss and far more experienced than you. He's flown in the US, so his handling skills are far better than yours.
Do spend seven days a week at the club from 0830 to 1900, answer the phone, wash the aeroplanes, clean the clubhouse and if you get £15 a week for the one hour you do get - be grateful!
(Disclaimer - my light-hearted cynical comments taken from folklore & reading AAIB reports and IN NO WAY REPRESENTATIVE of my own instructing experience)
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I was lucky enough to be an instructor (in the US). Best flying I ever did.
Went on to single pilot freightdawg in turboprop. Toughest flying I ever did.
Got right seat in a learjet. Easiest flying I ever did.
Got cancer. Just had a bone marrow transplant. Looking forward to one day getting back to fly anything at all.
A flight forum like this is fine. You will get a lot of opinions and 'advice'. Some useful. But do you think Laker, Lindbergh, Gann, Chichester et al listened to everyone (or anyone)? Sniping about instructing for free, harming the 'industry', not making any money, it's no career, blah blah.
We all know what we need to do to get ourselves by in aviation. You know the game, and your limitations. Get on with it. Respect it.
Went on to single pilot freightdawg in turboprop. Toughest flying I ever did.
Got right seat in a learjet. Easiest flying I ever did.
Got cancer. Just had a bone marrow transplant. Looking forward to one day getting back to fly anything at all.
A flight forum like this is fine. You will get a lot of opinions and 'advice'. Some useful. But do you think Laker, Lindbergh, Gann, Chichester et al listened to everyone (or anyone)? Sniping about instructing for free, harming the 'industry', not making any money, it's no career, blah blah.
We all know what we need to do to get ourselves by in aviation. You know the game, and your limitations. Get on with it. Respect it.
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Hi, I did the same as you but was tempted away by the pleasure of doing the night Ibiza. If you are pretty sure you don't want to drive a bus, I would not bother with multiple or IR or ATPL. You can always do these later if you change your mind.
There is probably limited work for a CRI so I would do the full FI so you can earn some money. As you fly a JP, you could work probably afford to wok part time which is less tiring. Most flying clubs would readily employ someone more mature who is doing it for pleasure rather than as a step to a 737/320
Best wishes
There is probably limited work for a CRI so I would do the full FI so you can earn some money. As you fly a JP, you could work probably afford to wok part time which is less tiring. Most flying clubs would readily employ someone more mature who is doing it for pleasure rather than as a step to a 737/320
Best wishes
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If you are happy committing the money, just do it. I love instructing but I know that my heart and head are not necessarily connected. However, I'm in the fortunate position that the average £800/month I get from instructing isn't needed to fend off the wolves. If you need a salary, keep the job and get the FI slow time.
SP6 - you missed - "Stick with the SOPs but don't even raise an eyebrow when the CFI does something really stupid"
SP6 - you missed - "Stick with the SOPs but don't even raise an eyebrow when the CFI does something really stupid"
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Then when you have committed the 15-20k needed to just get the FI and CPL and you are sat at the club for 12hrs a day and doing no flying don't take the resentment out on your students. That negativity translates into people progressing badly who then give up and the student numbers dwindle further.
Flying Instruction is a profession, it is downgraded by those with more money than sense convincing themselves it is worth it.
My advice is go and piss it out the jet pipe of your JP.
Flying Instruction is a profession, it is downgraded by those with more money than sense convincing themselves it is worth it.
My advice is go and piss it out the jet pipe of your JP.
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What makes me employable?
However having read your post here's an altogether different take on the matter....
1. Forget (for the time being) doing the CPL/FI thing.
2. Enrol on an AOPA Ground Instructor Course. - Qualify.
3. Set yourself up as an independent PPL Ground Instructor
4. Devise a series of "products" ranging from scheduled classes to 1to1 etc. Price your "training" at a realistic level - do not try to compete on price. Your USP quality - rather than exam cramming.
5. Secure deals with hotels etc for classroom space.
6. Taking care to maintain your independent status etc market your services. (remember that the market for this stuff extends well beyond student pilots etc)
7. Be flexible and imaginative by recognising potential for "custom courses" - things like flight planning documentation - performance etc.
Once you're really established you'll know the market for FI's, hopefully have acquired a reputation as a contender - go for the FI course etc but keep the groundschool going.
All the fun of the fair but with you earning and in control....
In an ideal world, I would wish to see the following:
1. Obtain PPL.
2. Achieve sufficient experience in PPL flying to take the FIC.
3. Obtain FI rating which includes right to receive remuneration for flight instruction.
4. If you want to become an airline pilot, either build hours and money towards CPL/IR through flight instruction - or go down the MPL route. If not, just enjoy the profession.
This would mean that the oft-despised 'hours building for people-tube' folk won't have an enormous CPL/IR cost hanging over them for which they need to fly every hour they can whilst attempting to live on a pittance.
1. Obtain PPL.
2. Achieve sufficient experience in PPL flying to take the FIC.
3. Obtain FI rating which includes right to receive remuneration for flight instruction.
4. If you want to become an airline pilot, either build hours and money towards CPL/IR through flight instruction - or go down the MPL route. If not, just enjoy the profession.
This would mean that the oft-despised 'hours building for people-tube' folk won't have an enormous CPL/IR cost hanging over them for which they need to fly every hour they can whilst attempting to live on a pittance.
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I see you (and your JP?) are located in Cumbria and presumably want to stay there, that alone is going to limit your chances of getting work as an FI. Depending where in the county you are, I suppose you are looking at either Blackpool or Carlisle, if I was you I'd be talking to the CFI's/owners of where you think you might fancy working once qualified, before throwing a couple of years and £20k at it.
Having said that, I've been doing it for nearly 20 years and I still love it, so if you've got the time, inclination and money-go for it.
Having said that, I've been doing it for nearly 20 years and I still love it, so if you've got the time, inclination and money-go for it.
