What would you do??
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What would you do??
Sitting in the clubhouse today (I instruct at the club but the other instrructor instructs for a heli school using the same premises) I overheard an instructor teaching nav, the Instructor asked "if you were flying at 145 knots per hour
how long would it take you to fly 45 knots, just wondering how other instructors would react to this and what you would do/say?
how long would it take you to fly 45 knots, just wondering how other instructors would react to this and what you would do/say?
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Hello!
Do you know, where the unit "knots" has it's origin? See here: Knot (unit) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So, as a matter of fact, "knots per hour" comes very close to the original meaning of the term! And regarding the question: No, I would never publicly interfere with the lesson of a fellow instructor. And especially not regarding such an unimportant matter.
...and what you would do/say?
So, as a matter of fact, "knots per hour" comes very close to the original meaning of the term! And regarding the question: No, I would never publicly interfere with the lesson of a fellow instructor. And especially not regarding such an unimportant matter.
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Ah but "by definition" a Knot is 1 nautical mile per hour. To say 1 Knot per hour is, therefore, a unit of acceleration.
All from that Wiki link!
But you're right it doesn't really matter to a PPL.
Maybe just have a private word with the instructor concerned and point out his error.
All from that Wiki link!
But you're right it doesn't really matter to a PPL.
Maybe just have a private word with the instructor concerned and point out his error.
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It may be the origin, but it is NOT a correct term today and was something that was always emphasised to me as being incorrect - in fact using "Knots per hour" nowadays is technically a unit of acceleration and is the sort of error I would certainly not expect an instructor to make.
As far as "publicly interfere with the lesson of a fellow instructor." I would certainly agree nothing should be done publicly or in front of his student and I do not think I put anything in my post to suggest that, but he IS teaching the wrong thing, which IMHO is not acceptable.
As far as "publicly interfere with the lesson of a fellow instructor." I would certainly agree nothing should be done publicly or in front of his student and I do not think I put anything in my post to suggest that, but he IS teaching the wrong thing, which IMHO is not acceptable.
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...but he IS teaching the wrong thing, which IMHO is not acceptable.
There has been a thread recently about some guy demonstrating single-engine stalls in a twin below Vmca. That would be something to talk about with the instructor concerned. Urgently. Even publicly, if he won't listen privately. But "knots per hour"? I couldn't care less.
"Do you know, where the unit "knots" has it's origin? See here: Knot (unit) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia".
And another piece of nautical trivia: The lump of wood the piece of string was attached to was not unreasonably knwon as the "log'', and the results were entered in the ''log book''.
Modern boat water speed indicators are usually paddle wheel devices, but are still known as ''logs''.
And another piece of nautical trivia: The lump of wood the piece of string was attached to was not unreasonably knwon as the "log'', and the results were entered in the ''log book''.
Modern boat water speed indicators are usually paddle wheel devices, but are still known as ''logs''.
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Wrong maybe, but not safety relevant, therefore unimportant to me!
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foxmoth, for what it is worth I agree with you. If a job is worth doing it is worth doing right and to argue that it does not cause a safety issue is totally irrelevant.
If I was the student I would expect to be taught properly.
If I was the instructor I would hope a fellow instructor would point out such an error to prevent me from making it in the future and therefore improving the service I offered.
I would certainly not wish to continue making the same mistake, irrespective of how trivial.
This student may not be aware of his instructors error, however that can't be guaranteed for all.
If I was the student I would expect to be taught properly.
If I was the instructor I would hope a fellow instructor would point out such an error to prevent me from making it in the future and therefore improving the service I offered.
I would certainly not wish to continue making the same mistake, irrespective of how trivial.
This student may not be aware of his instructors error, however that can't be guaranteed for all.
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Oh my god........
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.......
Have non of you self righteous bunch ever meant to say one thing and have another come out? Have you never made a trivial mistake?
Orwell would be proud of you.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.......
Have non of you self righteous bunch ever meant to say one thing and have another come out? Have you never made a trivial mistake?
Orwell would be proud of you.
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Was everything else he said correct? If so, then merely point out that it could be confusing and that it isn't the normal convention to use that terminology.
Are you looking to stick the knife into this person for some reason? Or have you just got nothing better to worry about?
Are you looking to stick the knife into this person for some reason? Or have you just got nothing better to worry about?
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Are you looking to stick the knife into this person for some reason?
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What he said was hardly the crime of the century. It's just a small matter of convention. I thought the answer would be obvious, have a quiet word in his ear pointing out the mistake.
I wouldn't talk to him within earshot of a student and I wouldn't be having a go at him, so I fail to see why it is necessary to check what everyone else would do before acting.
The only options are:
1) Do nothing, just chuckle internally everytime you see him.
2) March into the briefing room and castigate him infront of his student.
3) Talk to him privately.
Or I suppose there is a 4) Start a thread on a well known flying Bulletin Board and see if he reads it and recognises what he said.
As already mentioned, it's not a conventional way of talking about distance and speed, but it's hardly completely incorrect either.
I wouldn't talk to him within earshot of a student and I wouldn't be having a go at him, so I fail to see why it is necessary to check what everyone else would do before acting.
The only options are:
1) Do nothing, just chuckle internally everytime you see him.
2) March into the briefing room and castigate him infront of his student.
3) Talk to him privately.
Or I suppose there is a 4) Start a thread on a well known flying Bulletin Board and see if he reads it and recognises what he said.
As already mentioned, it's not a conventional way of talking about distance and speed, but it's hardly completely incorrect either.
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Well you are not reading my posts properly - I have already pointed out that I did go with option 3 at the time, it is more the reaction I got that resulted in this thread. Maybe this is why there are occasionally remarks about quality of instructors these days - nobody cares what the standards are!
Last edited by foxmoth; 19th Aug 2010 at 09:48.
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Maybe this is why there are occasionally remarks about quality of instructors these days - nobody cares what the standards are!
Judging the competency of a fellow FI based soley on one remark is ludicrous and has all the hallmarks of the reactionary nonsense that blights this forum and the mass media. This chap might be the best FI ever to walk the planet, he may be the worst, but based on one comment, it is impossible to tell.
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Exactly my point SAS.
As I said, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I shall be watching foxmoth with great intent in future and will run a score board on any mistakes he/she makes..........
As I said, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I shall be watching foxmoth with great intent in future and will run a score board on any mistakes he/she makes..........
If I overheard ANYONE saying "Knots per hour" I would assume he wasn't a pilot. As I'm sure would many of us. If a student is savvy enough to spot the mistake it might just undermine his confidence in his instructor, and remove him from GOD status. It's a small thing, but not without importance.
What would you do?
1, sound the crash alarm to ensure you have everyone's attention.
2, close the circuit to all inbound traffic and divert local traffic to their alternates.
3, grab the bull horn off the Ops desk and call for QUIET in the most commanding voice you can muster.
4, drag the offending instructor by his ears out of the briefing room and then frogmarch him outside to where the club aircraft are parked, motioning the assembled throng of onlookers (including the offended student) to follow you.
5, using the tow rope kept in the back of the firetruck, tie the instructor to the nearest prop with his arms out in a sacrificial pose.
6, grab a couple of jars of Avgas off the samples shelf in the oil store and liberally drench the instructor
7, nonchantly taking a book of matches out of your pocket, make eye contact with the instructor and ask him: "So, this knots per hour malarky I heard you coming out with just now, you sure about that... hmm?"
8, without breaking eye contact, remove a match from the book and take a step forward, and say: "I'll say that again, sonny... are you sure that knots per hour was what you meant to say?"
By now, it's likely the instructor will be pleading for forgiveness and swearing by Icarus Almighty that he'll never make the same mistake again. Too late.
10, turn around so your back is to the instructor and you're facing the crowd that will have undoubtedly amassed. Strike the match and without a backwards glance toss it over your shoulder, and say: "We take instructing VERY seriously round here... now, who'd like to explain the quadrilateral rule to me?"
(Sorry, Foxmoth, couldn't resist
)
2, close the circuit to all inbound traffic and divert local traffic to their alternates.
3, grab the bull horn off the Ops desk and call for QUIET in the most commanding voice you can muster.
4, drag the offending instructor by his ears out of the briefing room and then frogmarch him outside to where the club aircraft are parked, motioning the assembled throng of onlookers (including the offended student) to follow you.
5, using the tow rope kept in the back of the firetruck, tie the instructor to the nearest prop with his arms out in a sacrificial pose.
6, grab a couple of jars of Avgas off the samples shelf in the oil store and liberally drench the instructor
7, nonchantly taking a book of matches out of your pocket, make eye contact with the instructor and ask him: "So, this knots per hour malarky I heard you coming out with just now, you sure about that... hmm?"
8, without breaking eye contact, remove a match from the book and take a step forward, and say: "I'll say that again, sonny... are you sure that knots per hour was what you meant to say?"
By now, it's likely the instructor will be pleading for forgiveness and swearing by Icarus Almighty that he'll never make the same mistake again. Too late.
10, turn around so your back is to the instructor and you're facing the crowd that will have undoubtedly amassed. Strike the match and without a backwards glance toss it over your shoulder, and say: "We take instructing VERY seriously round here... now, who'd like to explain the quadrilateral rule to me?"
(Sorry, Foxmoth, couldn't resist
)