Standards Doc 30
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Standards Doc 30 RTF
I see Doc30 Registered training facilities was withdrawn by the CAA in November..anyone know when its going to be updated or replaced by what??
Doc33 only contains the approved course providers.VBR Stampe
Doc33 only contains the approved course providers.VBR Stampe
Last edited by Stampe; 30th Oct 2010 at 16:17.
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RFs are now incorporated into Standards Doc 11, Section 1:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/Standar...V08%202009.pdf
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/Standar...V08%202009.pdf
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Thanks for that but it doesn,t appear to contain the listing of all all UK RTFs that Doc 30 did.Like to check I,m still in place,I feel a phone call to FCL coming on.VBR Stampe
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Well I suspect the days of the registered training facility are numbered and of course the authority derives no revenue from RTFs.I,m expecting to have to put my small scale activities under the umbrella of an FTO or expand to warrant the authority fees.No money to be made in GA in the present climate.VBR Stampe
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Currently awaiting a reply on this one from the authority.I attended a meeting yesterday and it appears that Registered Training facilities are about to be consigned to history.With all training having to take place under the auspices of an an Approved training organisation in the future the costs of setting up and running small flying clubs will increase dramatically.Euopean driven but no doubt enthusiastically promoted by the local branch office of European Aviation beaureacracy.Watch this space.VBR Stampe
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RTF!!!
Any idea on the time scales for the end of the RF?
It was mentioned in Trainingcom a while ago, but all a bit vague.
Hopefully we will all get some notice and we will get some time to write a load of rubbish about internal quality systems and student performance and feedback systems which will help no one!
It was mentioned in Trainingcom a while ago, but all a bit vague.
Hopefully we will all get some notice and we will get some time to write a load of rubbish about internal quality systems and student performance and feedback systems which will help no one!
March 2012 or later depending upon when EASA-FCL becomes law.
No need for Ops Manuals etc, for a PPL ATO; only a Training Syllabus which you can buy from the bookshop. Looking at the requirements the only significant differences from an RF are:
a) must be registered as a legal entity
b) must demonstrate that sufficient financial resources are available to provide the approved training
c) must maintain records for 5 years.
No inspection required, you just apply for Approval rather than Register.
No need for Ops Manuals etc, for a PPL ATO; only a Training Syllabus which you can buy from the bookshop. Looking at the requirements the only significant differences from an RF are:
a) must be registered as a legal entity
b) must demonstrate that sufficient financial resources are available to provide the approved training
c) must maintain records for 5 years.
No inspection required, you just apply for Approval rather than Register.
No need for Ops Manuals etc, for a PPL ATO......No inspection required
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Gentleman had a chat with a very helpful lady in approvals.Doc 30 was discontinued apparently as it was felt to be out of date and hard to verify if lots of the listed organisations were extant.There had also been a rush of new RTF applicants.Existing RTFs will stand until 2012 and new applicants must have "legal entity " status.As Whopity and Billie Bob point out the situation will all change in 2012 when all training must come under the auspices of an "Approved training Facility" however the authority are hopeful of maintaining some sort of Registered facility though this will certainly involve a fee.Wait and see I guess.
Whatever we think of the authority I always find the the staff helpful
once the correct person is located.VBR Stampe
Whatever we think of the authority I always find the the staff helpful
once the correct person is located.VBR Stampe
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Originally Posted by Whopity
b) must demonstrate that sufficient financial resources are available to provide the approved training
So, RF's are going to have to show financial fitness to the CAA. That'll make their lives even more difficult.
apparently as it was felt to be out of date and hard to verify if lots of the listed organisations were extant.
All they need to do is to write to the person who has made the Registration in accordance with App 2 to JAR-FCL 1.125 and ask them if their details are correct. If not, or they receive no response, they strike them from the list in accordance with App 2 to JAR-FCL 1.125(5). Quite Simple!
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Isn't it just.
I have always been stunned at the lack of oversight by the CAA and how easy it is for RF's to get away with shocking training and facilities.
The number of people who lose money when schools go to the wall is mortifying. Whilst I'm never a fan of more regulation, this is one area that needs looking at urgently.
I have always been stunned at the lack of oversight by the CAA and how easy it is for RF's to get away with shocking training and facilities.
The number of people who lose money when schools go to the wall is mortifying. Whilst I'm never a fan of more regulation, this is one area that needs looking at urgently.
Last edited by Say again s l o w l y; 11th Feb 2010 at 12:57.
From the CAA's response to recommendations by the AAIB following a fatal helicopter accident - It looks as though we may see oversight of Registered Facilities well before EASA implementation, along with the attendant fee structure, no doubt.
Recommendation 2009-086
It is recommended that the Civil Aviation Authority introduce periodic audits of Registered Training Facility (RTF) organisations to ensure appropriate private pilot training standards are being met at the current time and with the introduction of EASA FCL regulation.
CAA Response
The CAA accepts this recommendation. New European regulations (EASA FCL) for pilot licensing are currently being developed and contain regulations that would require all training organisations, including Registered Training Facilities (RTF), to become approved organisations. All such approved organisations will be subject both to investigation before an approval is granted, and to periodic audits thereafter. Implementation of EASA FCL is currently expected to be circa 2013.
In the meantime the CAA will review its arrangements for the oversight of RTFs to ensure appropriate private pilot training standards are being met. This review will be completed by the end of June 2010.
Recommendation 2009-086
It is recommended that the Civil Aviation Authority introduce periodic audits of Registered Training Facility (RTF) organisations to ensure appropriate private pilot training standards are being met at the current time and with the introduction of EASA FCL regulation.
CAA Response
The CAA accepts this recommendation. New European regulations (EASA FCL) for pilot licensing are currently being developed and contain regulations that would require all training organisations, including Registered Training Facilities (RTF), to become approved organisations. All such approved organisations will be subject both to investigation before an approval is granted, and to periodic audits thereafter. Implementation of EASA FCL is currently expected to be circa 2013.
In the meantime the CAA will review its arrangements for the oversight of RTFs to ensure appropriate private pilot training standards are being met. This review will be completed by the end of June 2010.
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What has stunned me recently is that despite being a full TRTO and AOC holder, we had to register as an RTF for PPL training and Ground Exams as the TRTO did not cover us.
I do not understand the logic of having jumped through the hoops with regards to Ops Manuals, Training Manuals, Quality Manuals and god knows what else that I had to fill in yet another form to make the same company an RTF as well.
I do not understand the logic of having jumped through the hoops with regards to Ops Manuals, Training Manuals, Quality Manuals and god knows what else that I had to fill in yet another form to make the same company an RTF as well.
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In the latest proposed CC scheme of charges a new charge for RTFs the beginning of some radical changes I suspect
"(New Charge)
Registration of PPL training facilities
i) In the case of an application for initial registration, the applicant shall pay a
charge of £100;
ii) In the case of an application to amend the particulars set out in the registration
certificate, the applicant shall pay a charge of £53;
iii) The holder of a registration certificate shall pay an annual charge of £100 to
the CAA on 1 April each year."
VBR Stampe
"(New Charge)
Registration of PPL training facilities
i) In the case of an application for initial registration, the applicant shall pay a
charge of £100;
ii) In the case of an application to amend the particulars set out in the registration
certificate, the applicant shall pay a charge of £53;
iii) The holder of a registration certificate shall pay an annual charge of £100 to
the CAA on 1 April each year."
VBR Stampe
ii) In the case of an application to amend the particulars set out in the registration certificate, the applicant shall pay a charge of £53;
Of course this could be the new EASA approval fee!
the CAA will review its arrangements for the oversight of RTFs to ensure appropriate private pilot training standards are being met. This review will be completed by the end of June 2010.
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Letter arrived yesterday ..all current RTFs lapsed as of 31st December all to reapply on the new form provided and a new list of RTFs will be published.Questions a lot more searching about premises,aircraft and their equipment levels plus aerodrome operator has to agree and sign approval to you operating from your nominated airfield.Plus the new annual fee guess the new list will be a lot shorter !!.VBR Stampe
Problem 1 - The CAA cannot transition to the EASA Implementing Rules while they don't know how many RTFs are in existence.
Problem 2 - There are currently too many RTFs because the CAA allowed everybody and his dog to register without bothering to conduct even the most basic checks on the validity of the applications (arguably resulting in at least two deaths).
Solution to both problems - Cancel all existing registrations and introduce a £100 recurring fee for a time limited re-registration.
Suddenly there are far fewer registered facilities and you know where they all are (why didn't someone think of this 13 years ago?? - Oh yes, I remember, they did but they were slapped down). Come the Brave New World, expect the fee to increase by a considerable margin to fund the EASA required oversight inspections (and the inclusion of gliding clubs as ATOs).
Problem 2 - There are currently too many RTFs because the CAA allowed everybody and his dog to register without bothering to conduct even the most basic checks on the validity of the applications (arguably resulting in at least two deaths).
Solution to both problems - Cancel all existing registrations and introduce a £100 recurring fee for a time limited re-registration.
Suddenly there are far fewer registered facilities and you know where they all are (why didn't someone think of this 13 years ago?? - Oh yes, I remember, they did but they were slapped down). Come the Brave New World, expect the fee to increase by a considerable margin to fund the EASA required oversight inspections (and the inclusion of gliding clubs as ATOs).
