What is a flight instructor?
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What is a flight instructor?
Reading this stuff here got me to wondering who can be considered a flight instructor.
Can someone like me call myself a flight instructor even though my rating expired many moons ago, or do I need to go through the mind numbing process of renewing my flight instructor rating to be considered a real instructor?
There that should bring out some real interesting ideas and opinions.
Can someone like me call myself a flight instructor even though my rating expired many moons ago, or do I need to go through the mind numbing process of renewing my flight instructor rating to be considered a real instructor?
There that should bring out some real interesting ideas and opinions.
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In my opinion, if your rating has expired then you cannot do any instructing, so you can't call yourself an instructor!
You can say you were an instructor though. Besides, its really not that hard to get your rating renewed.
You can say you were an instructor though. Besides, its really not that hard to get your rating renewed.
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I live in Canada and getting my instructors rating renewed would be a very big issue as I would have to jump through all the hoops again which I have no intention of doing.
As to my not being able to do any instructing without an instructors rating that is not true as I can do such things as type ratings without an instructors rating to name one thing.
I am licensed to do type ratings in Canada, Australia, and under JAR so what am I then if not an instructor?
Maybe a teacher?
As to my not being able to do any instructing without an instructors rating that is not true as I can do such things as type ratings without an instructors rating to name one thing.
I am licensed to do type ratings in Canada, Australia, and under JAR so what am I then if not an instructor?
Maybe a teacher?
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Chuck
With all due respect if you don't know the answer to your own question you are definately NOT a flight instructor.
Although the idea does give me reason to smile!
Maybe I could call myself 'boy' even though I haven't been one for decades - or 'young and fit' even though I'm not. I was a boy once ... and young and could run many miles.
Just because I'm older and less fit doesn't mean IN MY MIND I am!
Sure Chuck - once a flight instructor, always a flight instructor.
If you promise me you won't try flying, I'll promise not to try running!
KR
FOK
With all due respect if you don't know the answer to your own question you are definately NOT a flight instructor.
Although the idea does give me reason to smile!
Maybe I could call myself 'boy' even though I haven't been one for decades - or 'young and fit' even though I'm not. I was a boy once ... and young and could run many miles.
Just because I'm older and less fit doesn't mean IN MY MIND I am!
Sure Chuck - once a flight instructor, always a flight instructor.
If you promise me you won't try flying, I'll promise not to try running!
KR
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Nah Chuck I suspect you were an instructor even before someone made you jump through the hoops and made it official.
I bet your also an instructor on boats, cars and all things that you have a love for (apart from women)
Some people who have the rating arn't instructors will never be instructors and won't grasp the subtly of your question
I bet your also an instructor on boats, cars and all things that you have a love for (apart from women)
Some people who have the rating arn't instructors will never be instructors and won't grasp the subtly of your question
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We should be able to have fun here on this forum Jock and what better way than pointing out how absurd it is that so many people think that unless one is blessed by the regulator in a given time frame to be the holder of one of their pieces of paper you somehow had a total loss of memory the day your flight instructor rating lapsed.
So lets watch this evolve and see where it goes, with the week end coming up we may get some real interesting opinions on this simple question.
So lets watch this evolve and see where it goes, with the week end coming up we may get some real interesting opinions on this simple question.
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Chuck, I really don't think anyone actually thinks like that. From your original question, it just sounds like your asking if you can still be considered an FI if your rating has expired, although I suspect you're just playing games to provoke a response.
At the end of the day, you can think whatever you like about yourself.
At the end of the day, you can think whatever you like about yourself.
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Darn it is not what I think about myself that is the issue here as I know what and who I am.
My reason for starting this is to find out how many people really believe that having a flight instructor rating really means much.
For instance suppose you do not have a sea plane rating and decided to get one who would you choose to take your training from?
A certified flying instructor who has no real experience flying sea planes outside of a bare rating and a flight instructors rating.
Or.
Someone like myself who has thousands of hours flying sea planes and teaching on same with an expired flight instructors rating?
Don't jump to the conclusion that I am fishing for students as I am not.
What I am looking for is serious answers to the question.
P.S. :
Reading your posts here I noted you were having problems teaching the final stages of the landing.
Did you get it sorted out or are you still having problems, if you are I am sure I can help you out via P.M. s if you are interested.
Believe it or not I taught advanced flight training for decades and am still able to recall how to teach.
My reason for starting this is to find out how many people really believe that having a flight instructor rating really means much.
For instance suppose you do not have a sea plane rating and decided to get one who would you choose to take your training from?
A certified flying instructor who has no real experience flying sea planes outside of a bare rating and a flight instructors rating.
Or.
Someone like myself who has thousands of hours flying sea planes and teaching on same with an expired flight instructors rating?
Don't jump to the conclusion that I am fishing for students as I am not.
What I am looking for is serious answers to the question.
P.S. :
Reading your posts here I noted you were having problems teaching the final stages of the landing.
Did you get it sorted out or are you still having problems, if you are I am sure I can help you out via P.M. s if you are interested.
Believe it or not I taught advanced flight training for decades and am still able to recall how to teach.
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Can someone like me call myself a flight instructor even though my rating expired many moons ago, or do I need to go through the mind numbing process of renewing my flight instructor rating to be considered a real instructor?
From Canada especially for Chuck;
s. 7 of the Canadian Trade-Mark Act, often plead at the same time as a passing-off action, and which read as follows (2007):
"7. No person shall
(a) make a false or misleading statement tending to discredit the business, wares or services of a competitor;
(b) direct public attention to his wares, services or business in such a way as to cause or be likely to cause confusion in Canada, at the time he commenced so to direct attention to them, between his wares, services or business and the wares, services or business of another;
(c) pass off other wares or services as and for those ordered or requested;
(d) make use, in association with wares or services, of any description that is false in a material respect and likely to mislead the public as to
(i) the character, quality, quantity or composition,
(ii) the geographical origin, or
(iii) the mode of the manufacture, production or performance
of the wares or services; or
e) do any other act or adopt any other business practice contrary to honest industrial or commercial usage in Canada."
Pasing onself off as an instructor would cause the public to expect a certain qualification and current experience. Misguided as that may be (I symphatise with your comments regarding inexperieced pilots who are instructors providing poor quality instruction), it does not change the law.(a) make a false or misleading statement tending to discredit the business, wares or services of a competitor;
(b) direct public attention to his wares, services or business in such a way as to cause or be likely to cause confusion in Canada, at the time he commenced so to direct attention to them, between his wares, services or business and the wares, services or business of another;
(c) pass off other wares or services as and for those ordered or requested;
(d) make use, in association with wares or services, of any description that is false in a material respect and likely to mislead the public as to
(i) the character, quality, quantity or composition,
(ii) the geographical origin, or
(iii) the mode of the manufacture, production or performance
of the wares or services; or
e) do any other act or adopt any other business practice contrary to honest industrial or commercial usage in Canada."
There would also be the not simple task of obtaining insurance to operate as an instructor when not so qualified.
------
Finally, why come to an instructor forum and post several posts discussing how crap instructing and instructors are. Did you expect to elicit some special reaction?
Bit of a pointless question IMO. Aviation is regulated by qualification. That is each qualification comes with privilages. If the regulator says your qualifications allow you to instruct than you are an instructor. If they don't then you are not. This encompasses far more than the just holding a flight isntructor rating. TRI's for example do not have to have a flight instructor rating but are clearly instructors.
Chuck I still do not understand why you have such a hate on for pilots who have a flight instructor rating. It is the system they operate in that is the problem not the fact they hold the rating. IMO the antidote to poor flight training practices is articulating a better way, not blaming the person.
Chuck I still do not understand why you have such a hate on for pilots who have a flight instructor rating. It is the system they operate in that is the problem not the fact they hold the rating. IMO the antidote to poor flight training practices is articulating a better way, not blaming the person.
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TRI's for example do not have a flight instructor rating but are clearly instructors.
However, a TRI is not an FI i.e. they can not teach ab-initio or send people solo.
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What gives you the impression I have a hate on for pilots who have instructor ratings BPF?
Somehow you have gotten confused about my thoughts on the subject, maybe you missed all the times I have said there is no higher calling in aviation than being a flight instructor.
Somehow you have missed all the times I have said that the wages paid to flight instructors is pathetic.
My only dissatisfaction with the training sector of aviation is the low standards that are in place for the certification of flight instructors and the resulting working conditions and pay.
Having owned a flight school and tried to change things for the better and failed in my efforts I not only sold the school but have come to the conclusion that instructing at the ab-initio level is not worth the effort both financially and from a satisfaction standpoint.
What I would like to see is an industry were training is managed by high time well paid pilots, then the progress for the newly rated instructors would be better managed and instructing would be a sought after segment of aviation. The ratio of high time pilots in any given school would have to be high enough that they can and would make sure the new people are trained properly.
As it stands now it is ass backwards and we have students teaching students.
Just to set the record straight B.P.F. I am proud to be a flight instructor even though I no longer hold the rating nor have any desire to.
If I want slave level wages I would look in the lower level of the labour market, trouble is where would you find lower wages as construction ditch diggers are better paid than flight instructors.
It is the system I am unsatisfied with not the pilots as they are victims of the system.
Now are you beginning to understand me?
Somehow you have gotten confused about my thoughts on the subject, maybe you missed all the times I have said there is no higher calling in aviation than being a flight instructor.
Somehow you have missed all the times I have said that the wages paid to flight instructors is pathetic.
My only dissatisfaction with the training sector of aviation is the low standards that are in place for the certification of flight instructors and the resulting working conditions and pay.
Having owned a flight school and tried to change things for the better and failed in my efforts I not only sold the school but have come to the conclusion that instructing at the ab-initio level is not worth the effort both financially and from a satisfaction standpoint.
What I would like to see is an industry were training is managed by high time well paid pilots, then the progress for the newly rated instructors would be better managed and instructing would be a sought after segment of aviation. The ratio of high time pilots in any given school would have to be high enough that they can and would make sure the new people are trained properly.
As it stands now it is ass backwards and we have students teaching students.
Just to set the record straight B.P.F. I am proud to be a flight instructor even though I no longer hold the rating nor have any desire to.
If I want slave level wages I would look in the lower level of the labour market, trouble is where would you find lower wages as construction ditch diggers are better paid than flight instructors.
It is the system I am unsatisfied with not the pilots as they are victims of the system.
Now are you beginning to understand me?
DFC
Sorry what was your point ?
Sorry what was your point ?
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Reading this stuff here got me to wondering who can be considered a flight instructor.
Can someone like me call myself a flight instructor even though my rating expired many moons ago, or do I need to go through the mind numbing process of renewing my flight instructor rating to be considered a real instructor?
There that should bring out some real interesting ideas and opinions.
Can someone like me call myself a flight instructor even though my rating expired many moons ago, or do I need to go through the mind numbing process of renewing my flight instructor rating to be considered a real instructor?
There that should bring out some real interesting ideas and opinions.
I've been retired from active flying as an instructor for a long time now. Lost my medical some time ago.
I've remained active in the community as a safety advisor and consultant both in primary instruction and specifically in the aerobatic display community.
I still consider myself very much an instructor and I'd like to think that I'm considered as such by my peers as well.
So far at least, this has been the case.
By all means, stay involved. GOOD teachers and CFI's are always welcome in the safety community whether currently flying or retired.
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I see a well established conversation here - may I add a thought as a new poster?
For me the answer to the "I am a ...." question is either what I get paid to do, or what people would generally describe me as, if they knew me well.
Chuck, if you earn your weekly income by teaching flying skills, then I suppose you are a flight instructor. Presumably you, like Dudley, have the specific qualification that allows you to teach those skills legally, as a consultant or advisor or any other capacity.
But if the rest of the world actually describes the work you do as "airline simulator instructor" then it would be a little misleading to say otherwise. Not wrong, just misleading. (That's just an example - obviously I don't know what work you actually do right now!)
Better just to say what you do. Sometimes that might mean avoiding a term like "flight instructor" that carries strong connotations.
Cheers,
O8
For me the answer to the "I am a ...." question is either what I get paid to do, or what people would generally describe me as, if they knew me well.
Chuck, if you earn your weekly income by teaching flying skills, then I suppose you are a flight instructor. Presumably you, like Dudley, have the specific qualification that allows you to teach those skills legally, as a consultant or advisor or any other capacity.
But if the rest of the world actually describes the work you do as "airline simulator instructor" then it would be a little misleading to say otherwise. Not wrong, just misleading. (That's just an example - obviously I don't know what work you actually do right now!)
Better just to say what you do. Sometimes that might mean avoiding a term like "flight instructor" that carries strong connotations.
Cheers,
O8
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I see a well established conversation here - may I add a thought as a new poster?
For me the answer to the "I am a ...." question is either what I get paid to do, or what people would generally describe me as, if they knew me well.
Chuck, if you earn your weekly income by teaching flying skills, then I suppose you are a flight instructor. Presumably you, like Dudley, have the specific qualification that allows you to teach those skills legally, as a consultant or advisor or any other capacity.
But if the rest of the world actually describes the work you do as "airline simulator instructor" then it would be a little misleading to say otherwise. Not wrong, just misleading. (That's just an example - obviously I don't know what work you actually do right now!)
Better just to say what you do. Sometimes that might mean avoiding a term like "flight instructor" that carries strong connotations.
Cheers,
O8
For me the answer to the "I am a ...." question is either what I get paid to do, or what people would generally describe me as, if they knew me well.
Chuck, if you earn your weekly income by teaching flying skills, then I suppose you are a flight instructor. Presumably you, like Dudley, have the specific qualification that allows you to teach those skills legally, as a consultant or advisor or any other capacity.
But if the rest of the world actually describes the work you do as "airline simulator instructor" then it would be a little misleading to say otherwise. Not wrong, just misleading. (That's just an example - obviously I don't know what work you actually do right now!)
Better just to say what you do. Sometimes that might mean avoiding a term like "flight instructor" that carries strong connotations.
Cheers,
O8
The accepted protocol in aviation for instructors who wish to continue contributing to the general good of the program after retirement is for these instructors to simply present themselves as a CFI retired.
There is nothing "misleading" about the term "instructor" used in this accepted manner.
Dudley Henriques
CFI (Retired)
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Instructing and teaching is part of your personality.
Some people can't help but instruct by their very nature about the things they enjoy.
It doesn't matter if they have an official tick in the box or not people will learn off them by default because they have the knack of instructing.
Once Chuck get's to the smelling of wee stage sitting at the local FBO with his dog getting some peace from the wife. A student pilot is sitting there struggling with the whizz wheel. Guaranteed within 10 mins the two of them will be hunched over a chart the student enthralled not noticing the smell of wee and will come out of it know everything you need to know about flight planning. CFI will be standing by thinking how dare that old bugger instruct my student he isn't even qualified. Then after a couple more lessons thinks hells bells this kid understands flight planning and NAV.
Real instructors never have to tell people they are instructors they already know. And the main problem with the training industry/ aviation career ladder is that many many none instructors have the tick in the box and the title "instructor". The fact that students eventually reach the required standard is more a case of the students ability to learn than the instructors ability to instruct.
I actually quite like the FAA gold seal CFI system. Only ever flew with 2 of them one doing twin training and the other a BFR. It was like chalk and cheese in comparison to the other FAA instructors I had sat next to. Top system and I wish we had it in the UK.
Some people can't help but instruct by their very nature about the things they enjoy.
It doesn't matter if they have an official tick in the box or not people will learn off them by default because they have the knack of instructing.
Once Chuck get's to the smelling of wee stage sitting at the local FBO with his dog getting some peace from the wife. A student pilot is sitting there struggling with the whizz wheel. Guaranteed within 10 mins the two of them will be hunched over a chart the student enthralled not noticing the smell of wee and will come out of it know everything you need to know about flight planning. CFI will be standing by thinking how dare that old bugger instruct my student he isn't even qualified. Then after a couple more lessons thinks hells bells this kid understands flight planning and NAV.
Real instructors never have to tell people they are instructors they already know. And the main problem with the training industry/ aviation career ladder is that many many none instructors have the tick in the box and the title "instructor". The fact that students eventually reach the required standard is more a case of the students ability to learn than the instructors ability to instruct.
I actually quite like the FAA gold seal CFI system. Only ever flew with 2 of them one doing twin training and the other a BFR. It was like chalk and cheese in comparison to the other FAA instructors I had sat next to. Top system and I wish we had it in the UK.
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If many years ago I won the lottery and ended up sleeping with many supermodels I would be call myself Lucky.
Many years later when I had lost all the money in the process of divorcing one of the said supermodels and was fat and ugly and had no chance of pulling anything but myself I believe it would be incorrect to still refer to myself as lucky!
Many years later when I had lost all the money in the process of divorcing one of the said supermodels and was fat and ugly and had no chance of pulling anything but myself I believe it would be incorrect to still refer to myself as lucky!
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Dudley, I am sorry to hear you lost your medical as I have always wondered when I would lose mine.
Now the status of my medical is being able to get up every morning and not feel any older or physically worse than I ever did, I still pass my regular six month medical for my ATPL only because I want to know the way my health is tracking not because I need to to earn a living flying.
Every time I see a picture of a Pitts or some other aerobatic airplane I wonder how long it would take to get my system back in shape to wring one out and then I realize I am getting old because I " KNOW " it would hurt to much to get back in shape.
I now have the best of all worlds for me......my Cub project takes up all of my 20X30 foot garage that has been turned into a hangar heated with every tool and aid I need to work on building the Cub.
As to flying and being an instructor that is not an issue for me anymore until I get the Cub finished and on big wheels, then it will be back to work instructing pilots who want to learn off airport flying.
Age is difficult to measure as we all are different we just have to do the best with what we have.
By the way I am a firm believer that good instructors are born not made.
Now the status of my medical is being able to get up every morning and not feel any older or physically worse than I ever did, I still pass my regular six month medical for my ATPL only because I want to know the way my health is tracking not because I need to to earn a living flying.
Every time I see a picture of a Pitts or some other aerobatic airplane I wonder how long it would take to get my system back in shape to wring one out and then I realize I am getting old because I " KNOW " it would hurt to much to get back in shape.
I now have the best of all worlds for me......my Cub project takes up all of my 20X30 foot garage that has been turned into a hangar heated with every tool and aid I need to work on building the Cub.
As to flying and being an instructor that is not an issue for me anymore until I get the Cub finished and on big wheels, then it will be back to work instructing pilots who want to learn off airport flying.
Age is difficult to measure as we all are different we just have to do the best with what we have.
By the way I am a firm believer that good instructors are born not made.
