Becoming Unrestricted

[RTN11]

I am currently a restricted FI(A). I'm having no problem getting the hours in, currently on about 50, but I'm really struggling with the solo sign offs.

I just want to confirm if signing someone off for solo when they have passed their PPL test but not yet received their licence counts towards the 25 required. They don't have a licence, and can't carry passengers, so I'm thinking it counts as a regular solo sign off.

Also, can I get an aerobatic instructor rating and teach aerobatics while still restricted?

[Whopity]

I doubt that the CAA will agree as you are required to indicate the exercise number that the student was conducting whilst you are supervising them. As they have passed the PPL Skill Test they are not conducting any exercise towards the issue of a licence.

[BillieBob]

You don't need an instructor rating to teach aerobatics. According to the ANO Article 36, an instructor rating is required only to give instruction leading to the issue of a licence, rating or other qualification in the licence and there is no such thing as an aerobatics rating.

The privileges of a JAA FI rating, as detailed in JAR-FCL 1.330, do not include the teaching of aerobatics and so the 'No Aerobatics' restriction placed on the rating by the CAA is entirely meaningless - it's a bit like putting a 'No HGVs' restriction on a motorcycle licence.

[BillieBob]

That's entirely up to AOPA - their bit of paper, their rules. However, you do not need to hold that particular piece of paper to fly aeros any more than you need a Cycling Proficiency Certificate to ride a bike.

[RTN11]

My apologies for using the word rating. I realise there is no aerobatic rating, even for instruction of aerobatics, but a restriction which needs to be removed. Clearly, this cannot be removed until the basic instructor restriction is removed, so for now I'll just have to carry on doing aeros on my own time and money.

It's much like people saying renew, when they mean revalidate. So many different terms and interpretations of them.

[tropicalfridge]

You can't get sign offs once someone has sent their docs off for licence issue as they have already met the requirements of the licence. Getting the solos is a pain, and you will have many more than 100 hrs by the time you get the sign offs.

The night restriction is pretty easy to remove, only an hrs flight. Plus, you can get sign offs for the solo part of it, so this might be the way forward baring in mind the time of year.

[Cows getting bigger]

I echo tropical, solo sign-off is a PITA. You spend much of your time doing Ex3, eventually you'll be trusted with a couple of students. You may even get them to the mid-12/13s but then someone else will have to take them for first solo. If you're lucky, you may get a couple of consolidation sign-offs and then some solo navs (qual x country only counts as one!). All the time you're probably not being supervised very much/at all, the most difficult lessons to teach (4-9) are often thrown your way and nobody cares; you are low life.

There is a school of thought that solo sign-off should actually be solo (non) sign-offs. some of the more difficult decision you will make are those when you decide NOT to send someone solo. The system sucks, rarely does it actually make one a better instructor (due to the actual lack of supervision), most clubs/schools look upon you as a costly (!) inconvenience and it does nothing to encourage individuals.

(CGB, unrestricted after 420hrs instruction over 13 months )

[DFC]

As they have passed the PPL Skill Test they are not conducting any exercise towards the issue of a licence.

The only requirement is that the student is indeed that - a student.

Sending a student solo just prior to the LST and then sending them solo the day after makes no difference. The requirements are the same.

Don't forget that the LST can be completed long before the student has the required number of hours for the issue of the PPL. How would the student get those hours without being authorised to fly solo?

As long as it is a student, they are briefed to carry out an exercise solo and having completed the flight are debriefed then it counts as an authorised solo flight.

The important things are that the authorisations are conducted properly including briefings and debriefings.

Everyone seems to forget that there is an hours requirement also. That hours requirement should include the opportunity to teach every exercise on the PPL course and if not then recomendation should be delayed even if the required number of supervised flights are completed.

Don't forget that once unrestricted that FI can set up their own school the next day. Give them the training to operate properly rather than simply as a cog in a big school's system.

As for night training - good experience but the restricted FI is not going to get much in the way of solo sign-offs because they can't authorise the first solo by night and there is usually only 1 solo on the course. Pilots then wait until the rating arrives before using it.

[philc1983]

Don't worry

It takes a little bit of time to get those students signed off but you'll get there eventually. I think it took me close to 200hrs of instructional time before I had all the solo sign offs, that might have been because there was 2 of us (restricted) instructors at the same time.

Keep plugging away.

[BillieBob]

In a nut shell as an instructor you cannot teach aerobatics for any useful purpose (other than fun) without lifting the restriction.

But the point is that you don't need an instructor rating to teach aerobatics in the first place! An FI rating is only required if you are giving instruction towards the issue or renewal of a licence or rating and there is no aerobatic rating.

I also re-iterate my previous point - the privileges of a JAA FI rating do not include aerobatic instruction so how can the CAA attempt to restrict a privilege that doesn't exist?

It states this in LASORS section H4.1.

LASORS has no validity in law - you need to refer to the ANO and the relevant parts of JAR-FCL. LASORS is merely a (rather poor) attempt to mimic the FAR/AIM - it is outdated and riddled with errors and mis-information, this issue being a prime example.

[Aviator part deux]

May as well stick my oar in here as I am intending to remove my aero's restriction from my FI rating in the next couple of months (providing I can get a cloud base of more than 3000ft in the UK...wishful thinking).

Now from what I have read on the subject, it would be sensible to do the AOPA course followed by the aero's FI course 8 hours gschool 5 hours flying that schools tend to have a syllabus for. You can also do it with prior aeros experience or a checkride with an aero's FI. What was said about doing it before being unrestricted already stands.

As to the solo sign-offs I was very lucky with that but they just take some time! Enjoy the flying!

[BillieBob]

Legalities aside though it would be bad airmanship to teach such advanced manoeuvres without a reasonable level of instructional and aerobatic experience.

Undoubtedly, but it is not necessary to hold an FI Rating to have such a level of experience.