Tail wheel Conversion,
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Tail wheel Conversion,
Hello,
Im 25 hours into a PPL on PA-28 Warriors, I wish to fly a tail dragger as soon as possible after I get my license, is it possible to do a tail wheel conversion course at the same time as my PA28 training? And can these hours be used as part of my PPL.
Thank you,
Colin
Im 25 hours into a PPL on PA-28 Warriors, I wish to fly a tail dragger as soon as possible after I get my license, is it possible to do a tail wheel conversion course at the same time as my PA28 training? And can these hours be used as part of my PPL.
Thank you,
Colin
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Don't see why not. However, be very choosy about which instructor you use to train you on tailwheel aircraft. I have come across instructors who think that a five-hour tailwheel conversion course will enable them to teach students how to handle taildraggers. Ideally you want an instructor who teaches on a variety of taildraggers and regularly flies them.
Incidently, has anyone noticed how JAR requires differences training for tailwheel aircraft, but no mention is made of tailskid aircraft? There are plenty of the latter, e.g. Tiger Moths.
Incidently, has anyone noticed how JAR requires differences training for tailwheel aircraft, but no mention is made of tailskid aircraft? There are plenty of the latter, e.g. Tiger Moths.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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I totally disagree with Malc4d. Why not do your whole PPL (or the remainder of it, since you're already a fair way into it) on a taildragger? There aren't too many schools that offer this as standard (I used to know of one, but they only offer FAA PPLs), but I don't see any reason why an understanding FI shouldn't be able to arrange it for you.
I do agree with QNH1013 - make sure your instructor has at least 100 hours of taildragger time if possible. But doing your initial training on taildraggers will mean you avoid having to have a future taildragger instructor get you out of the bad habits you'll have picked up in tricycles!
FFF
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I do agree with QNH1013 - make sure your instructor has at least 100 hours of taildragger time if possible. But doing your initial training on taildraggers will mean you avoid having to have a future taildragger instructor get you out of the bad habits you'll have picked up in tricycles!
FFF
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With a name like mine I'd better answer too. Absolutely finish up your PPL on a taildragger - why not? Just be sure to get a suitably experienced instructor as the others have said!
Happy landings
3 Point
Happy landings
3 Point
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Sorry to rain on the parade here.
If you were at somewhere like Clacton where the Cub PPL includes time on a 152, you get both tail and nose dragger time i.e. it is feasible.
If your school does not have a taildragger, I would forget that for now. Juggling two schools with an incomplete PPL is just too much hassle. Focus on your PPL for now and then do differences afterward.
Your nearest school conducting tailwheel iirc would be Kemble but is very pricey!
If you were at somewhere like Clacton where the Cub PPL includes time on a 152, you get both tail and nose dragger time i.e. it is feasible.
If your school does not have a taildragger, I would forget that for now. Juggling two schools with an incomplete PPL is just too much hassle. Focus on your PPL for now and then do differences afterward.
Your nearest school conducting tailwheel iirc would be Kemble but is very pricey!
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I'd do the rest of the PPL on a taildragger, it may take a few extra hours but from experience the skills you'll learn will hold you in good stead for the future. Its easier to step from a tailwheel into a tricycle aircraft than the other way round. Plus, if you are hour building you may be able to hire a cheap older taildragger aircraft rather than a 120+ quid warrior, again speaking from experience.
Eaglescott in North Devon used to be able to offer full JAR PPL training on a taildragger, plus the advantage of using a 600m grass strip it makes it very rewarding to get the licence that way. And theres no controlled airspace so you spend more time in the air and circuit bashing is isnt interupted by others. Without turning this into an advert for Eaglescott, the instructor there has hundreds of hours on tailwheel aircraft.
Good luck.
Eaglescott in North Devon used to be able to offer full JAR PPL training on a taildragger, plus the advantage of using a 600m grass strip it makes it very rewarding to get the licence that way. And theres no controlled airspace so you spend more time in the air and circuit bashing is isnt interupted by others. Without turning this into an advert for Eaglescott, the instructor there has hundreds of hours on tailwheel aircraft.
Good luck.
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There are two schools at Shoreham that teach ab initio on tailwheel with very experienced instructors - Southern Flying centre uses a Cub or Tiger Moth and Real flying company uses a Chipmunk. Worth coming south and finishing with a professional.
With a few years instructing on Tiger Moths I would recommend do one, then the other and I know my Instructor colleagues at my club would all say the same. Certainly the CFI would and he has 10,000 hours on Tiger's...
The techniques are different (, although to be fair not as much as might be supposed, but they are different,) personally I would get one buttoned up and then do the other.
As has been suggested, by all means switch to tail draggers now and then return to nosewheels after you get your licence. (And some subsequent experience - say c.50 hrs - to consolidate. Certainly we have seen some inexperienced pilots that have struggled to remain competent on either, let alone both.)
I've converted people both ways round. In general the tail dragger guys have better stick and rudder skills, but not much idea about the practical use of flaps, brakes, carb. heat or even a full panel. The nose wheel guys take time to acquire the handling skills, some needing a few hours of upper air work just to get used to having to use their feet as well as not doing things by numbers.
I agree with the expressed sentiments on the need to get an experienced tail dragger instructor.
"Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice..."
The techniques are different (, although to be fair not as much as might be supposed, but they are different,) personally I would get one buttoned up and then do the other.
As has been suggested, by all means switch to tail draggers now and then return to nosewheels after you get your licence. (And some subsequent experience - say c.50 hrs - to consolidate. Certainly we have seen some inexperienced pilots that have struggled to remain competent on either, let alone both.)
I've converted people both ways round. In general the tail dragger guys have better stick and rudder skills, but not much idea about the practical use of flaps, brakes, carb. heat or even a full panel. The nose wheel guys take time to acquire the handling skills, some needing a few hours of upper air work just to get used to having to use their feet as well as not doing things by numbers.
I agree with the expressed sentiments on the need to get an experienced tail dragger instructor.
"Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice..."
Last edited by shed loads; 12th Mar 2008 at 10:58.
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Lets equate this in real terms. If you were going to learn to drive a car would you opt to learn in a morris minor or a vauxhall corsa. DH82s, Austers and Cubs are nothing special really, and are very restrictive in terms of wx, the handling isn't that great either. The Chipmunk is more fun.
So learn in a modern aircraft, and if you get bored try a tailwheel/tailskid aircraft!
So learn in a modern aircraft, and if you get bored try a tailwheel/tailskid aircraft!
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Taildragging
Hi Colin Dix,
I learned to fly in 1960 and got my PPL on Austers. In those days, flying club aircraft, we were all taildragger pilots. You had to be posh and belong to an ownership syndicate to fly a nosewheel. So there's no reason why you should not do your PPL on taildraggers and, as it requires more skill and care, you may well be a better handling pilot as a result.
However, as has been hinted above, in these days when nosewheel is the norm, the quality of tailwheel training can be, shall we say, variable. You need to be certain that the tailwheel instructor you choose really knows the job and has not just done a few hours post checkout.
To illustrate this, I would point out that in particular there are two ways of landing a taildragger, the 'three point' landing and the 'wheeler' or 'roller' landing. You need to be taught both. (Whether you actually use both afterwards is up to you depending on A/C type and prevailing conditions).
Nowadays, not every training establishment teaches the 'wheeler' landing, when in strong crosswind conditions this mode of landing reduces the risk of ground-loop.
I have even heard of one place where they purport to teach taildragger and don't teach crosswind landings at all.
I also suggest you may care to read 'The Compleat Taildragger Pilot' by H. S. Plourde, (available from all good pilot shops), which will give you an initial insight into the art of taildragging.
Choose carefully, and you will benefit from it.
Broomstick.
I learned to fly in 1960 and got my PPL on Austers. In those days, flying club aircraft, we were all taildragger pilots. You had to be posh and belong to an ownership syndicate to fly a nosewheel. So there's no reason why you should not do your PPL on taildraggers and, as it requires more skill and care, you may well be a better handling pilot as a result.
However, as has been hinted above, in these days when nosewheel is the norm, the quality of tailwheel training can be, shall we say, variable. You need to be certain that the tailwheel instructor you choose really knows the job and has not just done a few hours post checkout.
To illustrate this, I would point out that in particular there are two ways of landing a taildragger, the 'three point' landing and the 'wheeler' or 'roller' landing. You need to be taught both. (Whether you actually use both afterwards is up to you depending on A/C type and prevailing conditions).
Nowadays, not every training establishment teaches the 'wheeler' landing, when in strong crosswind conditions this mode of landing reduces the risk of ground-loop.
I have even heard of one place where they purport to teach taildragger and don't teach crosswind landings at all.
I also suggest you may care to read 'The Compleat Taildragger Pilot' by H. S. Plourde, (available from all good pilot shops), which will give you an initial insight into the art of taildragging.
Choose carefully, and you will benefit from it.
Broomstick.
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Tail wheel conversion again,
Well I got my PPL(A) in 50 hours at Aeros, Gloucester, really great. now I have the same instructer teaching me to Fly the Emeraude that I ahev a share in. I have done 3.5 hours to date, and I'm starting to get the feel of balancing the rudder and rudder, I have been flying from grass, I miss the white centre line, I find it hard to remember to look at a fixed point way ahead! More training required for me. But great fun. Thank you everyone for the usefull guidance!
Colin
Steam Engineering Design Service - Traction Engine - Steam - Castings - Fowler - Mc Laren - Royal Scott
Colin
Steam Engineering Design Service - Traction Engine - Steam - Castings - Fowler - Mc Laren - Royal Scott
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Colin Dix - congrats on obtaining your license to commit aviation.
When the time is right for you learn to fly and land a Pitts (especially in x-winds).
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing like flying a Pitts Special".
When the time is right for you learn to fly and land a Pitts (especially in x-winds).
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing like flying a Pitts Special".
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing like flying a (insert aircraft of your choice here)"
Well of course there isn't; all aeroplanes are different and all fly differently!
I think the most important point for anybody to take away from this discussion is that tailwheel aeroplanes tend to have more peculiarities and greater individual characteristics than nosewheel types and you need to learn to fly them from someone who knows and understands them.
Happy landings
Well of course there isn't; all aeroplanes are different and all fly differently!
I think the most important point for anybody to take away from this discussion is that tailwheel aeroplanes tend to have more peculiarities and greater individual characteristics than nosewheel types and you need to learn to fly them from someone who knows and understands them.
Happy landings
