Flight Instructor Rating After PPL
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Flight Instructor Rating After PPL
Does anyone know if it is possible to get a Flight Instructor Rating after PPL, which also alows you to work for income? I know that CPL at least should be done, but it does not really make sense to study all that material if all I am interested in is becoming a flight instructor. Are there any other options maybe? Thanks.
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Oooooh, just a word of advice!! You might want to edit:
You will be teaching tomorrow's Commercial Pilots!!!!!!!
Even if it were not mandatory, I would not recommend going straight from PPL to Instructor! I found the hour building for my CPL invaluable - you learn all sorts from your mistakes (whether other people will admit this or not!) and the skill level needed for the CPL flight test is that much higher than PPL.
Moving up then to Instructor, you not only need to fly better, but you need to be able to explain what you're doing, why and how!
IMHO it would be mad to not do a CPL even if not necessary
does not really make sense to study all that material if all I am interested in is becoming a flight instructor
Even if it were not mandatory, I would not recommend going straight from PPL to Instructor! I found the hour building for my CPL invaluable - you learn all sorts from your mistakes (whether other people will admit this or not!) and the skill level needed for the CPL flight test is that much higher than PPL.
Moving up then to Instructor, you not only need to fly better, but you need to be able to explain what you're doing, why and how!
IMHO it would be mad to not do a CPL even if not necessary
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I disagree with kiwi chick. I found that a large proportion of the CPL ground exams were irrelevant, and much of it was rote learning that I forgot almost as soon as the exams were over. Some of it was useful, but I'm talking about quite a small proportion. As for hour building, flying skills, putting across how to fly - of course an instructor needs that, but that's a separate issue.
Some years ago you could get an FI rating without getting a CPL. That was the situation for many years, and I don't think the standard of instructing was any worse. In fact, I supect it was better as there were more career or enthusiast instructors, rather than mainly hour builders.
Anyway, to get back to the original question, at the moment there are no other options. There are ideas afoot to have a special FI course in the future, but not yet. Or you can become a microlight instructor...which is not such a bad idea; pays better too.
But AFAIK that's about it. And I agree, it doesn't make sense.
Some years ago you could get an FI rating without getting a CPL. That was the situation for many years, and I don't think the standard of instructing was any worse. In fact, I supect it was better as there were more career or enthusiast instructors, rather than mainly hour builders.
Anyway, to get back to the original question, at the moment there are no other options. There are ideas afoot to have a special FI course in the future, but not yet. Or you can become a microlight instructor...which is not such a bad idea; pays better too.
But AFAIK that's about it. And I agree, it doesn't make sense.
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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I found that a large proportion of the CPL ground exams were irrelevant, and much of it was rote learning that I forgot almost as soon as the exams were over.
On another note, all the studying gives you an insight into the dedication required for succeeding at something and helps you empathise with the students more. Those exams are all about going through a recognised course of study and sifting the wheat from the chaff, I came through a stronger person as a result and observed many fine ground school instructors along the way practicing their vocation on myself so therefore am better suited as a person to instruct pilots than I was before.
VFE.
Last edited by VFE; 11th Oct 2007 at 16:14.
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Well, just in direct response to the original post-
If you do want to instruct on a PPL you need to have the CPL/ATPL exams done before you can start the FI course and have a certain amount of hours (which I cannot think of off the top of my head, but I believe it's something like you need 150 hours p1?!?). But without the CPL, you cannot get paid.
To be perfectly frank, if I started instructing after my PPL, it would have been a disaster!! (Bad enough now!!haha) The experience built from PPL-CPL and beyond is invaluable and just think of it this way-the person you want teaching you is someone who is the voice of experience to some degree and an inexperienced PPLer, in my opinion, does not fit the bill.
If you do want to instruct on a PPL you need to have the CPL/ATPL exams done before you can start the FI course and have a certain amount of hours (which I cannot think of off the top of my head, but I believe it's something like you need 150 hours p1?!?). But without the CPL, you cannot get paid.
To be perfectly frank, if I started instructing after my PPL, it would have been a disaster!! (Bad enough now!!haha) The experience built from PPL-CPL and beyond is invaluable and just think of it this way-the person you want teaching you is someone who is the voice of experience to some degree and an inexperienced PPLer, in my opinion, does not fit the bill.
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Pipergirl
Hahaha, that really made me laugh!! I often say the same 
Whirlybird
You WHAT? What do you mean????
LOL it had to happen one day i guess...
To be perfectly frank, if I started instructing after my PPL, it would have been a disaster!! (Bad enough now!!haha)
Whirlybird
I disagree with kiwi chick
LOL it had to happen one day i guess...
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Those CPL studies do help and definately are needed when it comes to explaining some concepts/systems to those 'cleverer than usual' students....
As far as i am aware you do infact need the CPL exams behind your back before being allowed to write the Instructor exam sittings
As far as i am aware you do infact need the CPL exams behind your back before being allowed to write the Instructor exam sittings
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To answer the question properly...
you CAN get an FI rating without having the CPL and you can instruct, you cannot however, get paid for doing it, you need the CPL for that.
you CAN get an FI rating without having the CPL and you can instruct, you cannot however, get paid for doing it, you need the CPL for that.
Pipergirl is correct.
To instruct you need 150hrs PIC, CPL theory (not ATPL), class 2 medical and FI course.
To instruct and and to "legally" get paid you need the above plus the CPL flight test and a class 1 medical.
Regarding the CPL theory exams theres a lot that is useful but I'm not sure why you need to know the date that ICAO was formed, you don't need to know when the AA was formed to drive!!!!!!
To instruct you need 150hrs PIC, CPL theory (not ATPL), class 2 medical and FI course.
To instruct and and to "legally" get paid you need the above plus the CPL flight test and a class 1 medical.
Regarding the CPL theory exams theres a lot that is useful but I'm not sure why you need to know the date that ICAO was formed, you don't need to know when the AA was formed to drive!!!!!!
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I am reading so many reports of bad experiences for FI's
If there are any FI's/FIR out there who are tired of being treated in this way and instead wish they fly for a young and busy flight school who never abuse the FI who always pay on time, who welcome all input and love the business of training new Aviators, then there is at least one school that is still there for the love of flying then please get in touch because that is my school.
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OK so it's perfectly clear that unless you have the CPL/ATPL you can't get paid to instruct - but what counts as 'getting paid' or 'valuable consideration' as someone recently put it? For instance what about logging the hours, is that not considered 'valuable consideration' and thus out of bounds for a PPL FI, and how about if as a PPL FI you own the aircraft - do you have to 'cost share', or can the student be made to pay 'cost price' (obviously not to make a profit otherwise a CPL would be needed).
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It gets a bit complicated but it can be done.
Firstly, you and the student need to be both members of the same club so you will need to set uo a club and that club will have to be an RTF.
You can then hire the aircraft to the club at £xx per hour dry i.e. a rate that does not include fuel, maintenance, insurance etc etc. The Club agrees to pay those and you have an hourly rate and probably a monthly standing order to cover fixed costs. You are an equal member and are thus required to pay your share and you have equal booking rights with all the other pilots. There are airworthiness implications and insurance etc etc
The hourly rate paid by any member for the aircraft will not depend on if it is being hired by a PPL, Flown dual with a student or solo by a student.
You must pay the same rate as your fellow members and you are jointly responsible for all fixed costs etc etc.
The whole thing is about you being able to honestly show that the student does not make any payment for the flight training provided by you as a PPL.
Note that you can charge for all ground training and briefings.............but you would be found out by charging £20 per hour for briefings and making an exercise 3 pre-flight brief last 1 hour.
If you charge an attractive rate for the aircraft and it is something like a nice C172, expect quite a few PPL (or higher) holders to join.
Then you have your students - unless you have independent means, you have to work and thus your availability is limited....basically part time. You find it hard to get instructors to "work for you" because you can't pay them and after a while, your students drift away to where they can get more regular training at not much if any extra cost.
On the other hand getting the CPL, means you set yourself up as an RTF and charge people to train on your properly certified and insured aircraft.
God does that for some reason make the CPL seem worthwhile?
Regards,
DFC
Firstly, you and the student need to be both members of the same club so you will need to set uo a club and that club will have to be an RTF.
You can then hire the aircraft to the club at £xx per hour dry i.e. a rate that does not include fuel, maintenance, insurance etc etc. The Club agrees to pay those and you have an hourly rate and probably a monthly standing order to cover fixed costs. You are an equal member and are thus required to pay your share and you have equal booking rights with all the other pilots. There are airworthiness implications and insurance etc etc
The hourly rate paid by any member for the aircraft will not depend on if it is being hired by a PPL, Flown dual with a student or solo by a student.
You must pay the same rate as your fellow members and you are jointly responsible for all fixed costs etc etc.
The whole thing is about you being able to honestly show that the student does not make any payment for the flight training provided by you as a PPL.
Note that you can charge for all ground training and briefings.............but you would be found out by charging £20 per hour for briefings and making an exercise 3 pre-flight brief last 1 hour.
If you charge an attractive rate for the aircraft and it is something like a nice C172, expect quite a few PPL (or higher) holders to join.
Then you have your students - unless you have independent means, you have to work and thus your availability is limited....basically part time. You find it hard to get instructors to "work for you" because you can't pay them and after a while, your students drift away to where they can get more regular training at not much if any extra cost.
On the other hand getting the CPL, means you set yourself up as an RTF and charge people to train on your properly certified and insured aircraft.
God does that for some reason make the CPL seem worthwhile?
Regards,
DFC
Last edited by DFC; 2nd Nov 2007 at 23:51.
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Hi all,
This is quite an interesting topic and I note it tailed off some time ago.
Just wondering if things have changed at all since 2007 or is the route still PPL + hours building + CPL then FI rating?
I'm only at the beginning of that process now but instructing is something I would like to get into the future...
This is quite an interesting topic and I note it tailed off some time ago.
Just wondering if things have changed at all since 2007 or is the route still PPL + hours building + CPL then FI rating?
I'm only at the beginning of that process now but instructing is something I would like to get into the future...
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LASORS is your friend...When it comes to the FI rating make sure you distinguish between CPL theory (exams) and the CPL (licence) itself.
The main reqs (not exhaustive - check LASORS) being...
Minimum:
PPL + hours (200 total/150 PIC) + CPL theory exams + FI
Typical:
PPL + hours (200 total/150 PIC) + CPL theory exams + CPL + FI
I say 'typical' because you also need 10 hours instrument time to start an FI course (which you get with a CPL) and most people having gone through the trouble of passing the CPL exams (which you need anyway) will go on to complete the CPL course.
There are some changes on the horizon under EASA-FCL (2012) but I would imagine that this will only change the 'typical' route for experienced PPLs rather than people starting from scratch.
The main reqs (not exhaustive - check LASORS) being...
Minimum:
PPL + hours (200 total/150 PIC) + CPL theory exams + FI
Typical:
PPL + hours (200 total/150 PIC) + CPL theory exams + CPL + FI
I say 'typical' because you also need 10 hours instrument time to start an FI course (which you get with a CPL) and most people having gone through the trouble of passing the CPL exams (which you need anyway) will go on to complete the CPL course.
There are some changes on the horizon under EASA-FCL (2012) but I would imagine that this will only change the 'typical' route for experienced PPLs rather than people starting from scratch.
PPL or CPL you still need to demonstrate aircraft handling skills and a depth of knowledge that is much higher than required to pass the PPL course.
Even experienced PPL's are going to to need a good brush up on seldom used skills and forgotten theory and a newer PPL is going to need considerable work to get to the minimum standard to start the FI course. The bottom line is PPL to FI is certainly doable but it will not be cheap or easy and will require a lot more work than most people think.
Remember being an FI is teaching a skill where the penalty for getting it really wrong is injury or even death.....
Even experienced PPL's are going to to need a good brush up on seldom used skills and forgotten theory and a newer PPL is going to need considerable work to get to the minimum standard to start the FI course. The bottom line is PPL to FI is certainly doable but it will not be cheap or easy and will require a lot more work than most people think.
Remember being an FI is teaching a skill where the penalty for getting it really wrong is injury or even death.....
