CFI's problems. Or, get your hand off of the throttle.
Thread Starter
Iconoclast
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: The home of Dudley Dooright-Where the lead dog is the only one that gets a change of scenery.
CFI's problems. Or, get your hand off of the throttle.
This happened during takeoff.
At approximately 75 feet the dual student told the CFI to "take the airplane; we've got to go down now". The CFI replied "ok my airplane". With no runway left to land, the CFI attempted to add full power to conduct a go-around. The dual students hand remained on the throttle, and prevented the CFI from regaining full control of the airplane. The CFI told the dual student that he had to conduct a go-around, but the dual student responded "no we have to get down now". The CFI instructed the dual student to "let go of the throttle; my airplane; we need full power". The CFI attempted to add full power but the dual student continued to pull the power back to idle. The CFI yelled at the dual student "you're going to kill us; let go!" The CFI applied full elevator back pressure and the airplane collided with the airport fence.
<http://www.airsafety.com/reports/ROW041008A.pdf>
At approximately 75 feet the dual student told the CFI to "take the airplane; we've got to go down now". The CFI replied "ok my airplane". With no runway left to land, the CFI attempted to add full power to conduct a go-around. The dual students hand remained on the throttle, and prevented the CFI from regaining full control of the airplane. The CFI told the dual student that he had to conduct a go-around, but the dual student responded "no we have to get down now". The CFI instructed the dual student to "let go of the throttle; my airplane; we need full power". The CFI attempted to add full power but the dual student continued to pull the power back to idle. The CFI yelled at the dual student "you're going to kill us; let go!" The CFI applied full elevator back pressure and the airplane collided with the airport fence.
<http://www.airsafety.com/reports/ROW041008A.pdf>
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: uk
Isn't this one of the worst nightmares ? Apparently the student had done quite a bit of training already with no indication of any problem. Has anyone any tips about spotting when one of your students is just about to lose it ????
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Explain to them on Day 1 that if they don't release the controls when told "I have control", then they will be reported for failing to obey the lawful order of the Aircraft Commander...
And always carry a Desert Eagle 0.50 to reinforce your authority.
Neither of which would be much help in such situations, so what can you do?
And always carry a Desert Eagle 0.50 to reinforce your authority.
Neither of which would be much help in such situations, so what can you do?
Last edited by BEagle; 11th October 2004 at 13:21.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,014
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From: England
Its a brown pants job either way..
What about those students who are trying so very hard, concentrating with all of their might and you want them to do a good job so you are letting them fly it down to flare height but when you say 'I have' they simply cannot hear you and retain their white knuckle grip on the a/c. A good dig in the ribs seems to work but its amazing how little they can hear.
What about those students who are trying so very hard, concentrating with all of their might and you want them to do a good job so you are letting them fly it down to flare height but when you say 'I have' they simply cannot hear you and retain their white knuckle grip on the a/c. A good dig in the ribs seems to work but its amazing how little they can hear.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 20
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From: Cambridgeshire
On day 1 of my FI course, I was shown how to apply full power, even when student has his hand over the (Cessna type) throttle knob. The trick is to use your thumb and slide it under the student's hand along his palm.
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 132
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From: 300 miles south of EDI
Been in the same situation more than once. Ended up grabbing the student's hand and physically removing it from the throttle.
I once had a trial flight student (big bloke) panic completely and pull the cc all the way to the aft stop and keep it there. It's the closest I've come to having to clobber a student to make them let go. Having said that, a mate was doing some spin training with an experienced PPL a few years back. PPL sat in a catatonic state, terrified, with full pro-spin controls applied for turn after turn and refused point-blank to hand control back to the instructor mate. With not-many-feet-to-go instructor mate had to whack the student squarely in the face to regain control...
As has been said, one to think about before you go off on your next instructional trip. And sometimes when the other options have run out there's no room for PC niceties...
ST
I once had a trial flight student (big bloke) panic completely and pull the cc all the way to the aft stop and keep it there. It's the closest I've come to having to clobber a student to make them let go. Having said that, a mate was doing some spin training with an experienced PPL a few years back. PPL sat in a catatonic state, terrified, with full pro-spin controls applied for turn after turn and refused point-blank to hand control back to the instructor mate. With not-many-feet-to-go instructor mate had to whack the student squarely in the face to regain control...
As has been said, one to think about before you go off on your next instructional trip. And sometimes when the other options have run out there's no room for PC niceties...
ST
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
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From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
A small female helicopter instructor colleague once had someone freak out on a trial lesson and start grabbing wildly at all the controls, which in an R22 wouldn't be at all nice. 
She said she ordered him to sit on his hands and not move, and apparently it worked for long enough for her to get straight back to the airfield...luckily in a helicoter you can land pretty fast if you need to. I thought about that when I had my first - and so far only - student who was utterly terrified on a trial lesson and wanted to get on the ground ASAP. Luckily all he did was sit there with his eyes closed while I uttered soothing words and got us down. It was the first time I'd really thought about how dangerous this job can be. After that I got a karate expert friend to show me some pressure point stuff. Not sure there's room in an R22, and not sure I remember it properly, but better than nothing...though hope I never need it.
She said she ordered him to sit on his hands and not move, and apparently it worked for long enough for her to get straight back to the airfield...luckily in a helicoter you can land pretty fast if you need to. I thought about that when I had my first - and so far only - student who was utterly terrified on a trial lesson and wanted to get on the ground ASAP. Luckily all he did was sit there with his eyes closed while I uttered soothing words and got us down. It was the first time I'd really thought about how dangerous this job can be. After that I got a karate expert friend to show me some pressure point stuff. Not sure there's room in an R22, and not sure I remember it properly, but better than nothing...though hope I never need it.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Gentle pressure exerted upwards on the student's nearest finger on the throttle hand should be sufficient. The more urgent the situation, the more pressure exerted. Either their finger breaks or they let go - I would suggest the latter.
