Short SC.1 & HP.115
 

Would like to hear any stories/anecdotes on the handling/flying qualities of these experimental aircraft ? :hmm:

John Farley flew them in his time at RAE Bedford.
http://www.pprune.org/flight-testing...-new-book.html

British Experimental Turbojet Aircraft by Barry Jones has chapters about the SC1 and the HP115.

When polishing tail of the HP115, ensure you have a person sat in the cockpit.:O

I found it was nose light when it was part of the RAF Museum Cosford in the late 70's.

I seem to recall the 115 doing an excellent demonstration of Dutch rolling at a RÆS garden party at Cranfield many years ago.

Are you sure it was Dutch Roll you witnessed and not a demonstration of the handling qualities ?

I ask because in the book I mentioned above is the following comment.
".....while instantaneous recovery could be made from any tendency to Dutch roll"

Roland Beamont said it was most enjoyable to fly and was surprised how little there was to do once in the cockpit.
He also stated that it was ''a pleasant responsive aircraft with adequate longitudinal and directional characteristics in the range of flight conditions checked".
He found the adverse yaw was no more obtrusive than on the P1.

With a bit of slide-slip at low speed and so high alpha the vortex attachment points could be made to drift a little forwards and backwards along the LEs generating a very large stick free divergent dutch roll of some plus/minus 60 deg. Jack Henderson did it in public for the first time at the 1961 SBAC show. He flew across the field at 1000ft in slow level flight hands off and gave the rudder a little tap. Off it went and at the end of the pass he stopped it dead by getting hold of the stick again and stuffing it forward to get rid of the alpha which was the forcing function. The cognoscenti nodded wisely and said that he was demonstrating outstanding aileron response.

HNY BTW

Thank you John, I guess that answers my question. :)

Thank you for the replies gentlemen, some interesting facts there and Happy New Year.

The first astronaut on the moon Neil Armstrong flew the HP.115 at Thurleigh on June 22 1970. He was scheduled to fly the Short SC.1 also but it went tech. He also was invited to fly the Avro 504K at Old Warden. You could say this was one of the perks of flight testing,sampling various types.

HP 115 at the Le Bourget Air show
 

From my log book I see that 18 June 1965 we flew BLEU Varsity 417 Bedford - Wattisham - Manston - Coxide -Cambrai - Laon - Le Bourget, and return same route on 21 June. The flight was as shepherd aircraft for Clive Rustin flying the HP 115 and ? flying the jet flap aircraft (whose name I now forget) to the Le Bourget Air Show. The many stops were because these two aircraft carried fuel for only some 30 minutes or so of flight.

I remember that we arrived just after a USAF bomber had crashed on approach. I also remember Clive complaining about the French ATC directing him to break off his dislay when he was in the middle of the dutch roll demonstration half way down the runway. That same show the Fiat G91 did not quite get right way up from an inverted circuit and ended in the car park short of the runway.

Another memory of that trip - Commander Evans was captain on the last leg into Le Bourget and the we had great difficulty finding the ILS - our navigator (I think John Marsden) was peering out into the mist looking for landmarks. With both little aircraft tucked each side and their fuel running short it was an anxious few minutes.

We also saw the Russian SST, which crashed there at a subsequent show, and at one point on the way nearly had to divert due to an F104 crash. Thankfully, the return flight was uneventful. I guess we are all lucky survivors of those days.

The ? pilot of the H126 jet flap was Dizzy Addicott RIP. The USAF bomber that crashed on the approach was a B-58 Hustler (they sent one to successive Paris shows and lost them both)

Wot are you doing in Canada Bob?

Sorry! Only just seen your other posts!

Can anyone confirm if the elevons on the HP.115 were metal or fabric covered ?? feasible for fabric as it flew a lot of low speed handling flights ?? Max speed quoted at 175 knots. Unable to get to Yeovilton to check.

I hesitate to confirm anything after being corrected about my #6 post. :)

The book I referred to in post #3 has this to say, "During construction it was decided to retain wood for the wing's leading edges, and they were manufactured in fabric covered timber to a design where they could be easily removed when alternative leading edge shapes were tested. Both the elevons and the top section of the rudder were also fabric-covered".

Thanks Henry it is very interesting as I am building a vac form model at present and these details are important to get it right.

115 Vne was 250 kt IAS

Some fabric, John! Could do with that for my cycling trowies.:)

BOAC

Point taken.

The manual elevons had a very inset hinge to give a lot of aerodynamic balance and so make them light to handle. The leading edges were plywood covered back to the hinge line with fabric behind that.

The controls turned out to be exquisite (light and responsive) over the whole speed range. A remarkable achievement right off the drawing board.

JF

Thanks John and others for all the information. The HP.115 was a shy aeroplane that did not get the limelight, but was well designed and flew very well as a test aircraft.

An SC1 can be seen at the Transport Museum at Cultra just outside of Belfast.

HP.115
 

My book on the HP.115 should be interesting for you. And it includes an almost complete flight log.
Check

HPM Publications

Did a guy called Denis (Titch) Taylor have a part in testing either of these. I know he flew some of the Avro 707 variants, and was Shorts' CTP for the Belfast

After the first flight of the Belfast, (I think it flew from Sydenham but landed at Aldergrove) Denis Taylor was mobbed by journos who asked him what it was like to fly the world's largest aircraft. He replied that he just flew the front end and the rest followed.

I thought that came from Bill Pegg answering a question regarding the Brabazon........ and I know not if he cribbed it from an even earlier source !

diesel addict,

I too thought that it was Pegg's Brabazon quotation, although I always thought it mentioned "my side" rather than front; however, according to page 87 of the following document, the quote "Well, my side's airborne, what about yours?" is generally attributed to Tim Wood on the occasion of the first flight of the prototype Blackburn Universal Freighter and Pegg's mundane utterances were recorded in his autobiography "Sent Flying", which I've not seen.

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research...c%20papers.pdf

Plus for general information; Handley Page HP115 XP980 is on display at the Fleet Air Arm Museum at Yeovilton Somerset. Well worth a visit!

Exhibit- Fleet Air Arm Museum

The HP.115 at Yeovilton is XP841.

Correct.

980 was a P1127

Bugger :\ !!

That's what you get when you cut and paste from FAM's list of exhibits (my excuse is that you can't see the number on the photo with the info/history in my link above)!!

I suppose someone should tell them?

SincoTC -

I finally found my copy of "Sent Flying" - cannot scan it but pp. 147-8 text reads as follows

I was sitting in a cockpit and looking out of windscreens not much larger than before, and felt that this end seemed to be operating pretty well, but what about the rest of it coming along behind ! I remember thinking about this and my mind goes back to the first time I heard the question: "Oh, Mr. Pegg, what is it really like to fly such a gigantic aeroplane " My answer was, "It is quite easy, we just fly the cockpit and the rest of it trails along."

Earlier in the chapter Pegg mentions that he spent time in the USA with the Convair B-36 ( which was flying at the time ) and I confess that I feel the response has an American flippancy about it that might well have been coined at Fort Worth...... we shall probably never know.

Edit

Er - apologies for thread drift.

diesel addict,

I think you're right, Pegg's remarks sound like they were made to a pack of jostling reporters, whereas what I'd been told that he said, sounds more like a comment made to a fellow crew member in the heat of the moment, but it seems like it wasn't his remark and so isn't mentioned in his autobiography, where according to the RAF Historical Society article, there is a record of "his far more mundane intercom exchanges" (their words, not mine) maybe his, but like you say, we'll probably never know!

Back on Thread with apologies!

I've advised FAM about the mistake in their listings of the HP 115 as XP980 rather than XP841. Well spotted T-21 and who better than JF to confirm that XP980 was a P1127, happily, I should say "is" because it survives and is also on display at Yeovilton in the same hall as the 115, if their website is correct! :)

HP 115
 

I've only just joined this forum so please excuse an inane question.
What side does the canopy open on the 115?
I ask because I'm a 'kitbasher' and I've just bought the Anigrand 1:72 resin kit of the HP 115. It's a lovely little kit (all of 18 parts!!) but the canopy is so poor that I've decided to open it so as to see the cockpit detail I put in. Of course, NOW is the time I discover that I haven't any details on how the canopy opens. I'm assuming that it is hinged on the starboard side. Am I right?
Many thanks for your help
M Mortimer

vulcan01,

Something here might help you with detailing your HP115:

HP.115 walkaround

Hope it helps!

Yes Vulcan it is hinged on the stb side.

JF

Erroneous entries on the FAM website for HP115
 

According to The Fleet Air Arm Museum's Director Graham Moffat.

"The offending member of staff has been flogged to within an inch of his life in best naval tradition, and will put through the amendment soonest". :eek:

I'm happy to report that the information has now been corrected and have thanked him for the prompt response! :ok:

HP115
 

Thanks for the VERY prompt reply - much appreciated!
I wouldn't mind, but I've wandered 'round that Museum S-O-O-O many times and looked at the aeroplane, but never photographed it properly (just general shots)
Thanks again
Malcolm Mortimer

HP115
 

Thanks - doesn't it just! If I'd only known before I started construction..... Still, I have resolved a couple of queries.
I note that you're in Minehead; I used to live in Taunton and I got the kit that I'm building from Lonewulf Models based in Watchet.
Thanks again
Malcolm Mortimer

vulcan01,

You're very welcome!

I found out quite by chance a while ago, that the secret to unearthing close-up detail photographs of virtually any aircraft is to include the word walkaround in your search string. It works a charm, thanks to the worldwide band of avid enthusiasts (mostly modellers), who do just that and post the results under that heading. The link to the related image search is worth checking out too, often some nuggets there!

Cheers TC

Thanks for the walkround link very useful. In the cockpit shot there is a Cosim variometer mounted to the left of the instrument panel(red and green balls to glider pilots !!) What was its purpose in a HP.115 ?

SC.1 whereabouts...
 

Back in 1998 (I think) I was at the St Mawgan Air Day and was shocked and dismayed to see an SC.1 unfenced and unguarded, being used as a rubbish bin by the public! Fag ends and general trash being put into one of the exhausts!! I hope it survived! I remember being appalled on two counts as not only was such an historic test aircraft being reduced to that level but the ignorance shown by the general public was allowing it to happen!! :mad: