TU 144 pilots wanted
 

Hi All,

Preparing a movie about the TUPOLEV 144,
Concordski, http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5976392
we want to get contact with engineers and pilots of the Tupolev 144. For an impression during the production time and test flights.
Locations and all performance during active period are subjects for the movie

Any information by by PM please.


With kind regards,
Mr J. Stro

I wish you luck but with your use of the name Concordski I fear the worst.

The Tu-144 was considerably bigger than Concorde, had a different wing plan form (cranked delta instead of ogival), had a totally different engine layout, flew before Concorde and once the canards were fitted touched down very much slower than Concord thanks to the flapped delta effect that was then possible.

The Soviet espionage programme against Concorde was in order that they could learn all they could about Concorde and so be better prepared to compete with it round the sales table. If you feel it was in any way a copy of Concord you are ignoring the facts.

The Tu-144 programme failed not because of the aerodynamics of the airframe but because the propulsion system (intake, engine and nozzle combination) was much less efficient in a Mach 2 cruise than that fitted to Concord.

concord(e)
 

It is only a movie, and most people call it concord(e)ski.

JS does not say if the movie will be factual, fiction or what, so lets give him a chance.

I know many Russians aviators read PPrune, so good luck to the project.

Glf

The TU144 had more in common with the B70 valkyrie than the Concorde.

Sadly, I've never flown (in) either, but certainly have had opportunities for a good look at both, and broadly agree with John Farley (my area of disagreement is that I believe much of the lack of success of the type was the two fatal accidents in the type early in the service life, such that Aeroflot used it primarily for freight.

I have no current contacts there, but there is/was a full serviceable Tu-144 airframe with ground electrical and hydraulic power at the "teaching airfield" which belongs to Samara State Aerospace University - when I visited the place in the early 1990s they were using it for training aeronautical engineers. If it's still there, it may well be of great use for any film-making. The Nikolai Kolmakov design bureau is also in Samara; they built the engines and have a rather nice museum of the history of jet engine development.

Incidentally, only the English speaking world called it Concordski, the French called it Concordska, which is surely more appropriate - most aeroplanes have female personalities.

G

Not being from Russia, but I would image the name 'Concordski' being rather insulting. I reckon, it was not thought of as a compliment :p

Not really, it's standard Colloquial Russian to "Russify" any foreign word by adding "ski" to it.

Glass of Scotsiski Vodka anybody?

G

You could try to get in contact with the right people through NASA, which used the Tu-144LL fairly recently. Much better engines on that bird as well, borrowed from that other big supersonic plane, they won't tell you too much about those engines though...

NASA TU-144. Eight years old though. I'm pretty sure (?) they've been flying it fairly recently.

http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Newsroom/X-...n29/tu144.html

PS. Very wrong :\ about 'flying it fairly recently'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-144

compared to the other 144 flights, I find 8 years ago fairly recent :}

You`ve tried contacting the company?

http://www.tupolev.ru/English/Show.asp?SectionID=31

Tu-144D 77115
 

Dear gentleman,

Would you be interested in access to the real Ty-144 airframe and
its fellow test pilots. please contact us at < [email protected] >

see our aircraft at http://www.testpilots.ru/gallery/lii_0806.htm

Kind russian regards,
The Hero's Club of Zhukovsky / RUSSIA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-144
Please don't believe everything in the article at this link. For example it states that even after the canards were fitted the approach speed was still higher than Concorde.
At the Paris 73 airshow the Tu-144 routinely landed on 03 (length 8743 ft) and turned off right at the second exit to return to parking. There was little wind.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../LeBourget.jpg

Hi John,

A Nasa study of the TU-144 published in 2003 states that the constant alpha approach speed was 170 to 181 kts with Canards and 200 kts without. The document can be found at http://www1.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/...ain_H-2510.pdf
It looks like a fascinating read so I'll digest it at length later over a glass of vino.

A quick Google suggests that Concorde had a minimum approach speed of 160 kts however I'm sure there are plenty of ex Concorde drivers on this forum who can give the actual numbers.

Thank you very much B

That report explains the quoted approach speeds in the Wikepedia article.

Your NASSA report also says that the approaches were at 8 to 10.5 alpha for ground effect checks. Plus as is normal for ground effect landings a near as possible hands off touchdown was aimed for (I know how hard that is - on one occasion with a CN235 I was asked not to touch the controls for a minute before we hit!). It also explains some of the video of the NASA flights which has appeared from time to time accompanied by comments about ropey standards of touchdown and planting it etc. How people who do not have all the info let themselves down!

So the mystery re the high quoted speeds is solved. The 8 to 10.5 alpha is lowish for a conventional aircraft let alone a slender delta where one could expect 15 plus (hence the need for a droop nose)

From the airfield pic I would guess the distance to turn of was about 4200ft. Which would suggest 130 - 135 kt max?

Concorde in the same wind conditions was using the full length of 25 and a chute.

JF

Maybe the Sovs were flying empty on minimum fuel using their military spec brake pads and Concorde was full of journalists ;)

Genghis, while your comment about the inaccurate colloquialism is, of course, accurate, going to have to disagree with you about the accuracy of 'Concordska'. The feminine -a ending is entirely appropriate, but the preceding -sk- suggest a diminutive which, noting how Russians construct their affectionate diminutives, means it should probably be 'Concorduska'. If one is being formal, my guess is that 'Concorda' would be appropriate (although the Russian for 'concord' is 'soglasie', so maybe 'Concordski' is not so bad...).

Thank goodness I'm only paid to understand flying machines, and not linguistics - I'd probably starve! :}

Presumably, following your logic, "Concordska", would probably imply (through the patronymic form) "Daughter of Concorde", which would certainly not be true, and very sadly isn't true of anything else either. Although, maybe that's what whatever Frenchman first coined the term meant?

G :E

LOL! Am sure that Frenchman was extracting the golden as I think 'Concordava' would be the correct patronymic form, but to be honest I am equally glad to be paid to understand rivers, not linguistics. That Residence Evening Star is multi-lingual means out of necessity I have to get by in Russian.:ouch:

I'm not sure whether the story is true, but it seems that concern was expressed about the Russians trying to find out about the Concorde's tyre compound.

So at some aerodrome where Concorde was being tested, the boffins went out and smeared some sort of rubber/latex gunk with the consistency of chewing gum on the tyre marks left by Concorde.

Later the next day, it had gone!

I have an image of perplexed Soviet scientists puzzling over whatever it was their spies had brought back - and perhaps not seeing the joke?