Martin Baker seat record
 

Talking to John Martin yesterday he mentioned that they "had a good day" recently with eight succesful ejections. He said that brought their total to a number that was 7300 and something. (sorry I don't recall the last two digits) What an achievement. I believe about 10% of all their seats have been used.

Full Agreement
 

Being about to celebrate the 55th anniversary of my own Martin Baker Letdown I'd like to concur heartily! Few people can claim to have, through their own technical skills and business acumen, saved so many lives.
Once again, may I express my thanks and admiration, doubly so as I can celebrate an additional "birthday" each year.

(If my ankle plays up on occasions, I blame my own lack of parachute landing skills, but there again, the time spent in a sun-soaked seaside hospital wasn't lost either ...)

Amazing company but so is the stat that 10% of seats have been used!!

That seems a high number to me. Is that a reflection on poor aircraft design, poor maintenance, poor piloting or simply a reflection upon the role these aircraft fulfill? Although I can't believe that 10% of all MB equipped aircraft have been lost in combat..?

I think it's a reflection of how long the technology has been around, and the sheer numbers and unreliability of combat and advanced training aeroplanes between about 1950 and 1980, when both numbers and accidents started to tail off.

I doubt very much that it's anything like 10% for the most recent seat models.

G

Not surprised that 10% of seats have been used.. Take the Lightning.. More than 10% of airframes were lost.. Cannot find actual numbers but it could have been as high as 25% plus.. RAF Jaguars.. 208 airframes brought and 65 lost in accidents.. Not all aircrew ejected but over half did.. The seats get used as its the last chance that Pilots have of escaping from machines that are unforgiving to errors in judgement and circumstance in the enviroment they operate in, especially low level..

Likewise....

...and another - and as I wrote to MB at the time, my thanks went to ALL who developed and worked on the concept and my seat (which I can still see from this window..... :))

8 in a day??!!:eek:

8 in a day?!

But seriously if +30% of Jaguar's have been shunted with a large % of that by "pilot's escaping from machines that are unforgiving to errors in judgement and circumstance in the enviroment they operate in, especially low level." That is a pretty poor reflection on the process.

Either crew were poorly trained for the roles expected of them or the equipment wasn't fit for the roles it was expected to fulfill. Having said that what was the feedback of those testing Jaguar's?? Isn't it part of the role of the test pilot to discover aircraft characteristics before operational pilots do and get into trouble?

8 in a day?

I guess MB has sold a lot of seats worldwide. I think we'd have heard if the RAF had used all 8!!

Concurred. Handle hangs in my hallway.

Last month was my 30th anniversary - and it was a Jaguar.

Birdstrike.

@"Piece of cake"
 

In most ejection cases, the crews were properly trained - certainly those operating in the West Germany area, but also other "front line/cold war" areas (and even now); the aircraft were designed and tested for their operational function (during testing there could have been some ejections when things got hairy at the outer limits of various bits of the operating envelope). Some aircraft are a bit "edgier" than others (Lightning endurance, for example), but military pilots are trained to react appropriately, including ejecting ...
You seem to want a degree of safety that runs counter to the aircrew's business, which is ... to fight other aircraft, shoot off rockets at enemy tanks, drop bombs on enemy installations, and so on. Nasty, isn't it, but that's what combat aircraft are about ... And, to follow on LM's comment, bikrds are not uncommon on low-level operations - a hit from a biggish bird on your car's windscreen can cause the view to go all starry, and you're probably not doing more than 20% of an aircraft's speed . A bird that hits your car won't do more than dent it , but they makle biiig holes in aeroplanes, and strip the vital blading all through the engine.
Martin-Baker build lifesavers, remember.
Sorry poeple, Rant Mode OFF ...

pieceofcake,

Birdstrike is Circumstance, one of many.

And however many hours a test pilot tests and an engineer fires chickens at structures and into engines, there is always one bird who pops up during operational flying and by being in exactly the right (wrong) spot manages to shatter a canopy and send shards of perspex down both engines...

whoa easy all. First of all I'm in no way trying to make light of the situation, degrade the quality of aircrew or MB abilities to save lives. So relax.

That said if the stat is correct that the RAF (never mind the other air forces taking Jaguar) have lost over 30% of type then that is a terrible thing. Yes I hear you re: bird strikes but are we saying that most of the losses were birds being ingested?

I pretty confident that RAF Jaguar combat losses are pretty low so simply shunting 30% is terrible and actually given such a statistic one could argue that an effect defense to RAF air attack would be simply let them fly around long enough and they will crash on their own.

Faced with such losses surely its not unreasonable to suggest that either mission expectations were too high or the aircraft was lacking?

@Lightning mate

I'm guessing you were in the back seat then? Otherwise according to an ejection history website you would have had another Martin Baker approach and landing the following month....

Piece of cake
 

PM on the way.

No mate - I was in the front. ;)

Are / were you a qualified low level fast jet pilot then?

If not then please keep such derogatory comments to yourself. Go on then - ANSWER THE QUESTION.

@ Lightning mate. Bit aggressive but I'll answer politely.

I'm not a fast jet pilot but I don't think you need to be to suggest that a 30%+ loss rate of an aircraft type is a high number. Unless everything is flying into birds (which I'm not sure would explain why Jaguar's suffer higher % losses?) then its either the pilot or the aircraft.

I don't know the answer, hence why I asked the question. Maybe if you are / were a fast jet pilot you might have a view??

One thing I do know is this. In a one sided contest one's skill has very little to do with the outcome. Therefore if one is asked to do the impossible then only the arrogant / fool hardy believe that their ability will see them through. By talking about it doesn't make it derogatory.

Found this pretty interesting

pieceofcake

A 30% loss rate over an aircraft's life span is not that high. The USAF's F-100 rate was higher than that--2200 built only 400 retired to the boneyard over it's history. A couple percent per year adds up. I have lost 8 friends in USAF tactical aviation and that is not surprising over 20+ years. The squadrons I was in consistently had 2 or 3 guys that had ejected at one time in their career.

If you are not a low-level "fast jet" pilot you cannot conceive of the number of ways of ending up depending on Mr. Martin's product. My ejection was after a mid-air collision with another A-10, using McAir's ACES II seat. Martin-Baker was kind enough to send the tie when my brother sent them a report, not knowing it wasn't a M-B seat. He was USN, where the motto was, "If it says Grumman on the pedals, it better say Martin-Baker on the seat". The USN got real possessive about M-B seats, even going to Congress demanding them, "Buy American" Congressman be damned.

Martin-Baker :ok: :ok:

GF

What aiplane with the Stencil seat? A good friend used one, out of a F-100, controlled ejection but still "feels" it years later. Shoulder and neck pains,

GF

Many years ago (before I was a member of the tie club), Martin Baker threw a party, in London I think, for pilots who had used their chairs.

I wonder if they will ever do it again. Methinks it would be the P****p to end them all.

They held one in the early 90's to celebrate the 6000th (I think) successful ejection. It was at Claridges and it was a mighty fine p**s up!

Most uses by an individual? (not testing)
 

Who holds the record of most ejections, not in testing, but real emergency use? I think Lockheed test pilot Bill Park pulled the handle 4 times (F-104, A-12 mother ship, SR-71, HAVE BLUE, not Martin Baker seats), and I recall others making 3? Others?

Damn that was a horrible night :yuk:. My wife has filled me in on most of the details, as I don't remember a thing (must be something to do with the truth drugs they put in the copious amounts of champagne I drank). Apparently my wife in not capable of convincing me when I'm on completely the wrong tube line to Richmond but absolute strangers in Wandsworth are :confused:

I THINK it was 5000 lives saved (after the Prowler crashed in Italy??? with 4 Yankees jumping out) but, whatever the figure, I'm bloody pleased MB did and continue to do such a great job. A mild cut on my cheek where the helmet visor dug in a little bit isn't too big a price to pay I reckon :ok:

sandiego - I don't know, but it was always folklore in my day that 'ordinary' pilots would not survive the third, for whatever reason, maybe it leaving it 'a bit later'? (I quit after one:))

I know one who escaped three times from a Jaguar.

How careless:)

And who could blame him?

Ok ok you lot!

Know much about flying the Jaguar do you? :p

another interesting story...Eitan Karmi (Israeli AF)...3 combat ejections from the Mirage (either 3 or 5/Nesher) between October'73 and May'74.

First was on 8Oct73 to an Egyptian Mig-21 then two days later to Syrian AAA or...a Syrian Mig-21, then finally 8 months later again a Syrian SAM got his learning curve to top out ;)

even more astounding is the fact that the incredible fighter force that was the Israeli Mirage/Nesher fleet of 400 kills: 25 air combat losses (16:1) as far as the Mirage 3 was concerned suffered a total attrition of 50+ airframes out of a total 75 available 66%+ attrition rate - probably a more profound record than their air combat prowess!

Seems the Jaguar polarizes views. http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...at-jaguar.html

Its a pretty funny thread, especially the response to the "I've never heard anyone who actually flew one say it was crap..."

I remember, sitting watching cabs quietly rusting away, both up north and down south, borrowing the aircrews flight safety video collection in return for our collection [:ooh:] as we had got quite bored with the usual stuff.
Anyway I can honestly say that both myself and the guys learned quite a lot about the price that was paid for even the slightest of errors and sometimes just plain bloody bad luck.

That MB have produced devices which have saved quite so many lives is a tremendous achievement.

Can only hold MB in ore (awe) and all those who've leaped out courtesy...
How about a thread for those ejection tales:ok:....or have we had one and I've missed it:O

Would that be iron ore or the Full Metal Jacket? Just kidding and - yes I do have the MB tie. Try wandering into their chalet at Farnborough if you want a nice day out!!
Always grateful -40 odd extra years now. Thank you MB.

Before the implementation of the 'Reduced Charge" MB seats, MB had earned the reputation as the MB back breaker. I did closely observe my wingman's ejection from his inverted and spinning TF-9J Cougar which had that particular result. But alas, my landings equaled my takeoffs, so no tie for me.

I have a few thousand hours of sitting in MB seats and several hundred in Escapacs and they were both great seats for their time.

Around a ship, there are multiple ways to have bad experiences. After observing the results of someone else having an extremely bad day, I made sure that the guard over the alternate handle was down because split seconds really count and that was the quickest way out. I would have had no hesitation in using the seat if warranted.

I Live adjacent to MB in Chalgrove and it seems the jets are being used less and less ..... when I do hear one I am always to late to see which one it is ... are they still operating the Hunter and the Canberra ?

Does anyone know if it's possible to predict when they'll be about ?

Many thanks !

The Test Man
 

Hi All,
Sorry if it's a bit late, but have only just picked up on this thread.
I'll start by admitting I am not military or an fj pilot - just a very avid aviation enthusiast [anorak some would say:\]. So I hope I don't instigate any aggravation which seems to befall many none flying contributors.
The thread reminded me of a book on my shelf "3 Great Air Stories". "The Man in the Hot Seat". Tells the story of Doddy Hay who sat in many MB seats for the development programme. A good account (I think) of the development of a life-saver.
Not sure if it's still available but worth a try.
Published 1970 by Collins [ISBN 0 000 192330 7].
Hope someone is interested.

MBA is still using two Meteors Mk 7 (and a half) for the air testbed at Chalgrove. One is gloss black and one is silver with orange panels.
You can read all about them on my ejector seat website:
http://www.ejectorseats.co.uk/The-Ch...eteors-_2_.pdf

The hunter and Canberra are no longer used. The Canberra was last used to test the Mk9 seats for the jaguar and harrier back in the 70's and the nose of that aircraft is now in the Farnborough museum.

I would also love to add more recollections of ejections to my site. Please get in touch if you're like to contribute.