Becoming a Test Pilot
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Becoming a Test Pilot
Hello all,
First off I'm unsure whether this should go in the Wannabes forum or here, but I placed it here since it seems the majority of the wannabes forum is oriented towards airline careers. Apologies if it is in the wrong place.
Also, I've had a good look at the FAQ sticky and I've gained some good info from there, though most of it seems circa 2003-2005 so I was wondering how much has changed.
I'm in my very early twenties, and I was wondering if anyone could give me any additional pointers on how to become a civilian test pilot. The military route is unfortunately not an option, since the RAF aircrew door has been understandably shut because I had some very mild, very infrequent wheeziness as a kid - diagnosed as childhood asthma. I'm unsure whether that would also 'close the door' to being a test pilot. I'm still looking to get some military experience whether that's through the RAF reserves or Uni Air Squadron.
It seems to me that the route
Engineering Degree BEng/MEng >> FTE >> Build Hours and gain CPL/ other additional licences >>> Test Pilot
seems to be the way that's recommended here. Would that be true? Are there other courses available nowadays?
I realise it's an incredibly difficult thing to do, and there are no guarantees, the path I've set out above is just a kind of 'ideal scenario' I've put together from reading the older posts on the subject.
I've looked at various test pilot schools and it seems like you need a minimum of 750 hours turbine time for most, and a sponsorship from a company that will put you through the course and employ you.
I've tried to research quite a few careers in aviation and this seems to be the toughest one to gain information on! I'm basically looking for any advice, all advice is appreciated and if people require further info about me/qualifications or want to discuss it further I'd be happy to send you my email via PM. Thanks.
First off I'm unsure whether this should go in the Wannabes forum or here, but I placed it here since it seems the majority of the wannabes forum is oriented towards airline careers. Apologies if it is in the wrong place.
Also, I've had a good look at the FAQ sticky and I've gained some good info from there, though most of it seems circa 2003-2005 so I was wondering how much has changed.
I'm in my very early twenties, and I was wondering if anyone could give me any additional pointers on how to become a civilian test pilot. The military route is unfortunately not an option, since the RAF aircrew door has been understandably shut because I had some very mild, very infrequent wheeziness as a kid - diagnosed as childhood asthma. I'm unsure whether that would also 'close the door' to being a test pilot. I'm still looking to get some military experience whether that's through the RAF reserves or Uni Air Squadron.
It seems to me that the route
Engineering Degree BEng/MEng >> FTE >> Build Hours and gain CPL/ other additional licences >>> Test Pilot
seems to be the way that's recommended here. Would that be true? Are there other courses available nowadays?
I realise it's an incredibly difficult thing to do, and there are no guarantees, the path I've set out above is just a kind of 'ideal scenario' I've put together from reading the older posts on the subject.
I've looked at various test pilot schools and it seems like you need a minimum of 750 hours turbine time for most, and a sponsorship from a company that will put you through the course and employ you.
I've tried to research quite a few careers in aviation and this seems to be the toughest one to gain information on! I'm basically looking for any advice, all advice is appreciated and if people require further info about me/qualifications or want to discuss it further I'd be happy to send you my email via PM. Thanks.
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Inquisitiv,
Firstly I should state that I'm not a pilot but was in civilian Flight Test for close to twenty five years. The route you mapped out is probably the only one I've seen that can lead to a TP position but, as you say, it's a very slim chance to succeed that way. If you've done the research, you should also have realised that for every TP there are many more members of the test team, all of whom must do their job correctly to complete the required testing and achieve the certification of an aircraft. It can be a very satisfying experience to be part of the team even if you're not sitting up front.
Bear in mind that, even if by some miracle, you could follow the military path, you're up against a one in thousand or more chance to get an entry to ETPS, AX, Pax River or Edwards. I've been privileged to work with some of these (some graduates of more than one) and they are both exceptional pilots and analytical engineers.
Firstly I should state that I'm not a pilot but was in civilian Flight Test for close to twenty five years. The route you mapped out is probably the only one I've seen that can lead to a TP position but, as you say, it's a very slim chance to succeed that way. If you've done the research, you should also have realised that for every TP there are many more members of the test team, all of whom must do their job correctly to complete the required testing and achieve the certification of an aircraft. It can be a very satisfying experience to be part of the team even if you're not sitting up front.
Bear in mind that, even if by some miracle, you could follow the military path, you're up against a one in thousand or more chance to get an entry to ETPS, AX, Pax River or Edwards. I've been privileged to work with some of these (some graduates of more than one) and they are both exceptional pilots and analytical engineers.
Moderator
Iflier, welcome. As said, you've set the bar really high for yourself. I would never want to say that something can't be done, maybe it can. But the competition for a TP position is big, and there are many very well qualified and experienced pilots from whom to draw.
I have worked and flown with quite a few test pilots. Each one I can think of was chosen, rather than choosing that role. The test flying I have done similarly found me, rather than me applying for it. I was proposed as being the most suitable person based upon my experience. For my experience, there is not a tremendous amount of work out there for many test pilots, and I know a few who have retired, or gone back to commercial, to keep earning. For myself, I would only fly 20 to 40 hours a year of flight test. The rest of my flying is recreational, or personal transportation. You can't make a living, much less return the investment in training, on 40 hours a year of working that job.... My success has come from flying types which are little known to the ex military TP's (like floats and taildraggers).
So you have to have the piloting experience first. For what I have seen, several thousand hours on the class of aircraft for civil test flying. And you'll need a keen awareness of the test methods and certification criteria. Start reading the books on the sticky thread in this forum.
It can be done, but you'll have to put so much into it, you may not be able to see the end point for a while, as you work toward it.... But everything starts somewhere...
As a mentor used to say: "It's amazing what you can do, when you don't know what you can't do!".
I have worked and flown with quite a few test pilots. Each one I can think of was chosen, rather than choosing that role. The test flying I have done similarly found me, rather than me applying for it. I was proposed as being the most suitable person based upon my experience. For my experience, there is not a tremendous amount of work out there for many test pilots, and I know a few who have retired, or gone back to commercial, to keep earning. For myself, I would only fly 20 to 40 hours a year of flight test. The rest of my flying is recreational, or personal transportation. You can't make a living, much less return the investment in training, on 40 hours a year of working that job.... My success has come from flying types which are little known to the ex military TP's (like floats and taildraggers).
So you have to have the piloting experience first. For what I have seen, several thousand hours on the class of aircraft for civil test flying. And you'll need a keen awareness of the test methods and certification criteria. Start reading the books on the sticky thread in this forum.
It can be done, but you'll have to put so much into it, you may not be able to see the end point for a while, as you work toward it.... But everything starts somewhere...
As a mentor used to say: "It's amazing what you can do, when you don't know what you can't do!".
Educated Hillbilly
Inquistive,
Afraid to say in the UK any Flight testing on CS25, or twin CS23 seems to be the reserve of the ex-military (ex ETPS).
I have seen several examples in the US and Canada where Aero Engineering Degree, CPL/IR and FTE position can lead to the position of Test Pilot.
The only Test Pilots from a pure civilian background I know of in the UK are at the LAA/home build level. One of those even had FTE training at ETPS.
The FEEs to self sponsor at NTPS even if you get the flight experience are prohibitive.
Realistically I always found as a pure civvy I had to choose between flying commercially or becoming an FTE. I think I would have preferred FTE over commercial flying.
Your best chance of becoming an FTE is probably getting into QinetiQ.
Afraid to say in the UK any Flight testing on CS25, or twin CS23 seems to be the reserve of the ex-military (ex ETPS).
I have seen several examples in the US and Canada where Aero Engineering Degree, CPL/IR and FTE position can lead to the position of Test Pilot.
The only Test Pilots from a pure civilian background I know of in the UK are at the LAA/home build level. One of those even had FTE training at ETPS.
The FEEs to self sponsor at NTPS even if you get the flight experience are prohibitive.
Realistically I always found as a pure civvy I had to choose between flying commercially or becoming an FTE. I think I would have preferred FTE over commercial flying.
Your best chance of becoming an FTE is probably getting into QinetiQ.
Last edited by portsharbourflyer; 30th Mar 2015 at 11:26. Reason: Change JAR to CS
Pretty much.
I have bits of paper saying that I am a TP, and am in current practice. I took the degree --> FTE --> CPL route sliding slowly but not entirely from back to front seat along the way, and am quite proud of where I've got.
However, I have never flown as TP anything above 1500kg - I might get to 5700kg but have no real expectation of ever assessing part 25 aircraft as a pilot (as an FTE certainly, I have many times, similarly various military aircraft) and it's been far more a skillset feeding my overall work in Aeronautics. I make a very comfortable living doing the various things that I do - but realistically fly 20 hours test piloting in a good year - I might have managed 40 hours test piloting on a couple of exceptional years.. It isn't viable as a main job - even for the majority of ex military people.
Come and join us in FT - it's a fantastic place to work, and you can make it as a TP on part 23 and lighter. But not in Europe, as a full time TP or in part 25 aircraft, without the military TP background. [In theory you could, but the number of people I've met who have done so are absolutely tiny.] On the other hand, within a broader aerospace engineering career, it is incredibly rewarding. It's also, needless to say, pretty tough to get into, so you'll really need to want to be here.
G
I have bits of paper saying that I am a TP, and am in current practice. I took the degree --> FTE --> CPL route sliding slowly but not entirely from back to front seat along the way, and am quite proud of where I've got.
However, I have never flown as TP anything above 1500kg - I might get to 5700kg but have no real expectation of ever assessing part 25 aircraft as a pilot (as an FTE certainly, I have many times, similarly various military aircraft) and it's been far more a skillset feeding my overall work in Aeronautics. I make a very comfortable living doing the various things that I do - but realistically fly 20 hours test piloting in a good year - I might have managed 40 hours test piloting on a couple of exceptional years.. It isn't viable as a main job - even for the majority of ex military people.
Come and join us in FT - it's a fantastic place to work, and you can make it as a TP on part 23 and lighter. But not in Europe, as a full time TP or in part 25 aircraft, without the military TP background. [In theory you could, but the number of people I've met who have done so are absolutely tiny.] On the other hand, within a broader aerospace engineering career, it is incredibly rewarding. It's also, needless to say, pretty tough to get into, so you'll really need to want to be here.
G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 30th Mar 2015 at 22:53.
Inquistivflyer
Have you done much research into what a test pilot actually does ? I mean "the typical day in the life of" what it is like to be test pilot.
I am not a test pilot myself but I have participated in a formal test flying program. The company I used to work for converted a large T - Prop airliner for the aerial forest fire suppression mission by fitting a large external tank to carry fire retardant plus other mods.
After a fully qualified test pilot crew did the initial flights and cleared the flight envelope I acted as an FO for the rest of the test program. This was required to gather all the data required to redo the AFM performance charts as well as confirm compliance with the performance requirements of the certification regime it was to be operated under.
It was a week of long days and frankly was pretty tedious. We spent hours and hours flying around gathering data one test point a time. After we recorded the numbers at the test point we then changing something ( eg speed/power/altitude etc) and then noted the new data. This was done for hundreds of test points.
I do quite a bit of flight instructing and my experience is non pilots arrive with a preconceived notion of where they want to take their flying career but many find other directions actually end up more appealing to them after they gain experience.
My advice is get an aeronautical engineering degree. Regardless of how life turns out for you an engineering background is a good thing to have. Go learn to fly and see where that takes you. If test flying is in your future it will find you not the other way around.....
Have you done much research into what a test pilot actually does ? I mean "the typical day in the life of" what it is like to be test pilot.
I am not a test pilot myself but I have participated in a formal test flying program. The company I used to work for converted a large T - Prop airliner for the aerial forest fire suppression mission by fitting a large external tank to carry fire retardant plus other mods.
After a fully qualified test pilot crew did the initial flights and cleared the flight envelope I acted as an FO for the rest of the test program. This was required to gather all the data required to redo the AFM performance charts as well as confirm compliance with the performance requirements of the certification regime it was to be operated under.
It was a week of long days and frankly was pretty tedious. We spent hours and hours flying around gathering data one test point a time. After we recorded the numbers at the test point we then changing something ( eg speed/power/altitude etc) and then noted the new data. This was done for hundreds of test points.
I do quite a bit of flight instructing and my experience is non pilots arrive with a preconceived notion of where they want to take their flying career but many find other directions actually end up more appealing to them after they gain experience.
My advice is get an aeronautical engineering degree. Regardless of how life turns out for you an engineering background is a good thing to have. Go learn to fly and see where that takes you. If test flying is in your future it will find you not the other way around.....
Last edited by Big Pistons Forever; 31st Mar 2015 at 18:15.
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Thanks
Wow, and here I was thinking this looked like a less-active subforum! Thanks to everyone for the replies, realistic advice, encouragement and confirming some of what I had said.
I guess if I head down this route my work really is cut out for me - not necessarily a bad thing. My difficulty now is really making the decision whether I proceed or not.
I'm passionate about aviation, and I'd love a job which focuses on it. Getting a commercial flying job is really appealing to me but I feel flying the big jets I'd miss getting my teeth into the sort of engineering style 'problems' (for lack of a better word) you might tackle as part of a flight testing team, working with some very talented engineers/pilots. Most of you have mentioned working as an FTE of some sort so I'm sure you'll understand.
But then when I think about becoming a FTE, I'd miss a lot of the aspects that come with commercial flying. Agh, it's a tough one when you factor in the financial outlay in both cases.
ICT_SLB, I definitely need to keep the team thing in mind, I'm very much a team player but I can get a bit focussed on wanting to fly.
Pilot DAR, Yeah actually admittedly I hadn't considered that even with a 'TP job' you might not have enough hours to make a living. Genghis touched on this too, thanks.
portsharbourflyer This is the exact decision I feel I need to make too, and it isn't easy! Why do you think you prefer FTE?
Genghis the Engineer, your job sounds excellent but thanks for the realistic advice on the hours you get as TP. I hadn't fully considered it could be that low, something to think about.
Big Pistons Forever, I have to say I really like this piece of advice
"I do quite a bit of flight instructing and my experience is non pilots arrive with a preconceived notion of where they want to take their flying career but the majority find other directions actually end up more appealing to them after they gain experience."
I know that's really what I need to do, but with the majority of the FO jobs on the commercial circuit seemingly being filled by cadets from places like CTC/oxford I almost feel I need to make a decision before I begin.
Also best to keep in mind the realities of a job like you said.
Apologies for the long post, but yeah thanks very much for the replies. It's a tough one.
I guess if I head down this route my work really is cut out for me - not necessarily a bad thing. My difficulty now is really making the decision whether I proceed or not.
I'm passionate about aviation, and I'd love a job which focuses on it. Getting a commercial flying job is really appealing to me but I feel flying the big jets I'd miss getting my teeth into the sort of engineering style 'problems' (for lack of a better word) you might tackle as part of a flight testing team, working with some very talented engineers/pilots. Most of you have mentioned working as an FTE of some sort so I'm sure you'll understand.
But then when I think about becoming a FTE, I'd miss a lot of the aspects that come with commercial flying. Agh, it's a tough one when you factor in the financial outlay in both cases.
ICT_SLB, I definitely need to keep the team thing in mind, I'm very much a team player but I can get a bit focussed on wanting to fly.
Pilot DAR, Yeah actually admittedly I hadn't considered that even with a 'TP job' you might not have enough hours to make a living. Genghis touched on this too, thanks.
portsharbourflyer This is the exact decision I feel I need to make too, and it isn't easy! Why do you think you prefer FTE?
Genghis the Engineer, your job sounds excellent but thanks for the realistic advice on the hours you get as TP. I hadn't fully considered it could be that low, something to think about.
Big Pistons Forever, I have to say I really like this piece of advice
"I do quite a bit of flight instructing and my experience is non pilots arrive with a preconceived notion of where they want to take their flying career but the majority find other directions actually end up more appealing to them after they gain experience."
I know that's really what I need to do, but with the majority of the FO jobs on the commercial circuit seemingly being filled by cadets from places like CTC/oxford I almost feel I need to make a decision before I begin.
Also best to keep in mind the realities of a job like you said.
Apologies for the long post, but yeah thanks very much for the replies. It's a tough one.
BPF makes a valid point about what TPing is really like. I'd be interested in DAR's numbers, but at a rough guess I'd say that for every 90 minute test flight, I probably do 2-3 days of preparation, and at-least half a day of reporting and analysis. When I was an FTE it was several times that. Military TPs or people in big FT departments *might* half the prep time because of the larger teams sat behind them.
Also it's important to realise that a CPL and BEng are only part of the education and training needed to do the job - there's a lot more to learn on top of that. There are some good books that'll give you an idea of the material - Stinton and Askew are probably the best, but you can find FAA's AC90-89 online for free, which will give you a good idea.
It's a great job, and can be pretty intensive - but actually flying an aeroplane is quite a small part of the whole.
I actually do around 100 hours per year, but the bulk is training, getting somewhere in an aeroplane, or instructing.
G
Also it's important to realise that a CPL and BEng are only part of the education and training needed to do the job - there's a lot more to learn on top of that. There are some good books that'll give you an idea of the material - Stinton and Askew are probably the best, but you can find FAA's AC90-89 online for free, which will give you a good idea.
It's a great job, and can be pretty intensive - but actually flying an aeroplane is quite a small part of the whole.
I actually do around 100 hours per year, but the bulk is training, getting somewhere in an aeroplane, or instructing.
G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 31st Mar 2015 at 18:56.
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Iflier et al,
Just to give you an idea of the timeline and what's required for a typical flight test mission.
About 6 months before: Certification Plan including test requirements written by DER/DAD and sent to Authority for review & comment.
At least one month before: Test Procedure written by System Engineer (often preceded by Rig testing but that's another story). Reviewed & signed off by DER/DAD, FTE (and TP or Safety Officer if potentially hazardous).
At least two weeks before: Flight Test Plan written by FTE including Hazard Analysis/Risk Mitigation if needed. Signed off as Test Procedure.
Day of Test:
Aircraft Status Briefing by Aircraft Controller/Maintenance Lead followed by Flight (Test Plan) briefing by FTE. This attended by PIC, Co-Pilot, FTE(s), System Engineers, Vendor Representatives plus, if required, ground or telemetry room staff - can last up to two hours.
Actual flight (three - four hours)
Debrief - snags for Maintenance, outline of flight followed by detailed review of each test point (if required) with Q & A from engineers.
Post-Flight (immediate to two weeks after)
Formal Flight Log & Report including relevant Aircraft Configuration written up & filed by FTE (may also require pilot input if handling or flight qualities related).
Analysis of recorded data and assessment of test success or failure by engineer or vendor rep. If failure, engineers will need to ascertain what exactly caused the problem and come up with a fix, which will need to be retested.
Test Report written by system engineer or vendor. This is then reviewed by DER/DAD and full report or summary transmitted to Certification Authority.
This timeline is for a Part 25 aircraft aka "heavy iron" but from it you can see that there's probably a minimum of 20 hours of effort before and after one hour of actual flight - and this doesn't include the maintenance activity & inspections to keep the aircraft operating safely. The Safety Review process will probably add many more hours if potentially hazardous flying involving stalls, envelope expansion or specialist maneuvers like Low Visibility Takeoffs or Autoland are involved. Most manufacturers will also rehearse such flying in a simulator. As i said before, Flight Test is a team sport (and it's a big team).
Just to give you an idea of the timeline and what's required for a typical flight test mission.
About 6 months before: Certification Plan including test requirements written by DER/DAD and sent to Authority for review & comment.
At least one month before: Test Procedure written by System Engineer (often preceded by Rig testing but that's another story). Reviewed & signed off by DER/DAD, FTE (and TP or Safety Officer if potentially hazardous).
At least two weeks before: Flight Test Plan written by FTE including Hazard Analysis/Risk Mitigation if needed. Signed off as Test Procedure.
Day of Test:
Aircraft Status Briefing by Aircraft Controller/Maintenance Lead followed by Flight (Test Plan) briefing by FTE. This attended by PIC, Co-Pilot, FTE(s), System Engineers, Vendor Representatives plus, if required, ground or telemetry room staff - can last up to two hours.
Actual flight (three - four hours)
Debrief - snags for Maintenance, outline of flight followed by detailed review of each test point (if required) with Q & A from engineers.
Post-Flight (immediate to two weeks after)
Formal Flight Log & Report including relevant Aircraft Configuration written up & filed by FTE (may also require pilot input if handling or flight qualities related).
Analysis of recorded data and assessment of test success or failure by engineer or vendor rep. If failure, engineers will need to ascertain what exactly caused the problem and come up with a fix, which will need to be retested.
Test Report written by system engineer or vendor. This is then reviewed by DER/DAD and full report or summary transmitted to Certification Authority.
This timeline is for a Part 25 aircraft aka "heavy iron" but from it you can see that there's probably a minimum of 20 hours of effort before and after one hour of actual flight - and this doesn't include the maintenance activity & inspections to keep the aircraft operating safely. The Safety Review process will probably add many more hours if potentially hazardous flying involving stalls, envelope expansion or specialist maneuvers like Low Visibility Takeoffs or Autoland are involved. Most manufacturers will also rehearse such flying in a simulator. As i said before, Flight Test is a team sport (and it's a big team).
Last edited by ICT_SLB; 1st Apr 2015 at 00:02. Reason: Added Flight Log.
Educated Hillbilly
Inquisitive,
In answer to your question, difficult for me to answer without revealing my true identity.
To clarify I came very close to working as a FTE at one point I time, but with a CPL/IR to keep current, I couldn't justify staying in a low paid trainee airworthiness position while waiting for the FTE promotion. I had completed the introductory FTE course (as most holders of an approved Aeronuatical degree will have). My Engineering background in recent years has been heavily involved in analysis for certification rather than direct involvement in flight test.
Having done both engineering and flying, I know I would like to be able to have a job that combines the two, as said from a civvy background FTE is the position which allows you to do both.
Get your degree and get your PPL, if within 5 to 6 years it looks unlikely you are going to get the break into an FTE position you can still use your PPL as the basis for a modular CPL.
You don't need to make the decision now. As a lot of people have said you can choose to work in Aerospace it isn't always easy to choose exactly what you do in Aerospace. I have found it was always a case of what opportunities presented itself when you are looking.
The reasons you have cited are also why I think I would prefer FTE.
In answer to your question, difficult for me to answer without revealing my true identity.
To clarify I came very close to working as a FTE at one point I time, but with a CPL/IR to keep current, I couldn't justify staying in a low paid trainee airworthiness position while waiting for the FTE promotion. I had completed the introductory FTE course (as most holders of an approved Aeronuatical degree will have). My Engineering background in recent years has been heavily involved in analysis for certification rather than direct involvement in flight test.
Having done both engineering and flying, I know I would like to be able to have a job that combines the two, as said from a civvy background FTE is the position which allows you to do both.
Get your degree and get your PPL, if within 5 to 6 years it looks unlikely you are going to get the break into an FTE position you can still use your PPL as the basis for a modular CPL.
You don't need to make the decision now. As a lot of people have said you can choose to work in Aerospace it isn't always easy to choose exactly what you do in Aerospace. I have found it was always a case of what opportunities presented itself when you are looking.
The reasons you have cited are also why I think I would prefer FTE.
Moderator
at a rough guess I'd say that for every 90 minute test flight, I probably do 2-3 days of preparation, and at-least half a day of reporting and analysis.
But the only "glamour" associated with it, is that you walk out to the "new" or "different" plane on the ramp. Otherwise, it's hours of tedium, with moments of "Oh boy, here we go....
If you are in the right place, at the right time, with nearly enough experience, test flying will call you. Knocking at the TP door will be time consuming, focus on just being where the work is being done, and learning from those doing it now. When they step back, you could be next in line - I was....
Whatever else I've ever found flight testing, even performance testing, I don't think that I have ever found it tedious. But then, I find the challenge of constantly learning about new aircraft and systems, often the best part of my professional life.
G
G
Maybe "tedious" is the wrong word to describe the test flying I did. "Not glamorous" might be a better descriptor.
It was a very demanding days of flying as very accurate flying is required to get good data. It took a lot of personal discipline to bare down and keep the flying to a high standard when you where in hour 3 and doing essentially the same maneuver for the 40th time.
I guess the bottom line is the TP flying was professionally satisfying but very hard work. Personally I am not sure I would want to do it as a career.
I will add a caveat as I was only exposed to one element of test flying. I am sure if you are doing the full suite of flight test cards you will find others that are more fun, however my suspicion is most of the flight testing won't be ripping around doing cool stuff, it will be a program of slow and methodical maneuvers done over and over again.
It was a very demanding days of flying as very accurate flying is required to get good data. It took a lot of personal discipline to bare down and keep the flying to a high standard when you where in hour 3 and doing essentially the same maneuver for the 40th time.
I guess the bottom line is the TP flying was professionally satisfying but very hard work. Personally I am not sure I would want to do it as a career.
I will add a caveat as I was only exposed to one element of test flying. I am sure if you are doing the full suite of flight test cards you will find others that are more fun, however my suspicion is most of the flight testing won't be ripping around doing cool stuff, it will be a program of slow and methodical maneuvers done over and over again.
Educated Hillbilly
Pilot DAR, Big Pistons, ICT,
I would like to point out that "over the pond" in US and Canada there seems to be a far more positive reception from companies to those holding dual Engineering and Flying qualifications. Add to that in the US/Canada you actually have a number of civil manufacturers that still make entire Airframes.
Here in the UK on the civil side only Britten Norman still make entire aircraft. There are a handful of GA type projects on going but 98% tend to run out of funds or go bankrupt before anything gets certified.
So as our original poster is UK based the options are a lot more limited than had he / she been born State side.
Big Pistons: Out of interest, was it an Electra that was converted for the fire fighting role?
I would like to point out that "over the pond" in US and Canada there seems to be a far more positive reception from companies to those holding dual Engineering and Flying qualifications. Add to that in the US/Canada you actually have a number of civil manufacturers that still make entire Airframes.
Here in the UK on the civil side only Britten Norman still make entire aircraft. There are a handful of GA type projects on going but 98% tend to run out of funds or go bankrupt before anything gets certified.
So as our original poster is UK based the options are a lot more limited than had he / she been born State side.
Big Pistons: Out of interest, was it an Electra that was converted for the fire fighting role?
Last edited by portsharbourflyer; 1st Apr 2015 at 20:28.
Moderator
I suspect that in Canada, "OEM" test flying is somewhat limited too. With the exception of a little I have done with Diamond, all of my test flying has been to support modification approvals on certified aircraft - mostly booms and pods hanging from aircraft, and some float and ski installations.
As such, I write my own test plans, and by agreement with the authority, test only those elements requiring evaluation. But, still, sometimes that it still tedious! When you must fly dozens of climbs, with extremely precise airspeed control, and write down data constantly, it can seem like "work", when you land to top off the tanks, to go for more...
As such, I write my own test plans, and by agreement with the authority, test only those elements requiring evaluation. But, still, sometimes that it still tedious! When you must fly dozens of climbs, with extremely precise airspeed control, and write down data constantly, it can seem like "work", when you land to top off the tanks, to go for more...
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Portsharbourflyer,
The demise of the airframe industry is the reason there is a high percentage of British TPs & engineers in Flight Test on this side of the pond (including yours truly). Even over here there's probably three or four Avionics or engine update programs for every "new" airframe (and the majority of those simple - or not so simple - stretches). A common saying was "The British aircraft industry is alive & well and living in Wichita, KS".
The demise of the airframe industry is the reason there is a high percentage of British TPs & engineers in Flight Test on this side of the pond (including yours truly). Even over here there's probably three or four Avionics or engine update programs for every "new" airframe (and the majority of those simple - or not so simple - stretches). A common saying was "The British aircraft industry is alive & well and living in Wichita, KS".
I am sadly in no position to deny the paucity of the British airframe industry - but hasn't a large proportion of all airworthiness and flight test work been all about modifications. Certainly in my lifetime.
G
G
Educated Hillbilly
Well irrespective of if we are talking about FTE work at the incarnation stage or post production modification or mid life updates, it still stands there are more options in the US.
Educated Hillbilly
Apologies suppose I am stating the obvious.
It isn't just the size of the industry it is a point I made earlier, in the US dual qualified pilots / Engineers seems to be encouraged. Where as my experience of holding dual qualifications in the UK has generally been quite negative.
In my previous contract I was speaking to a Engineer who was cleared for test flying a citation, although he was only cleared for system / avionics tests, it was still the case his company had helped him obtain the flying experience and gain the approvals from the FAA to do this. He was from a pure civil trained flight background and flight hours less than 2000.
That would never happen in the UK.
Even Michael Alsbury of the tragic Space Ship Two incident was an Aero Graduate with a Civil Flight training background, and not a trace of military fast jet experience.
So it just highlights the contrast in attitude between the UK and the US.
It isn't just the size of the industry it is a point I made earlier, in the US dual qualified pilots / Engineers seems to be encouraged. Where as my experience of holding dual qualifications in the UK has generally been quite negative.
In my previous contract I was speaking to a Engineer who was cleared for test flying a citation, although he was only cleared for system / avionics tests, it was still the case his company had helped him obtain the flying experience and gain the approvals from the FAA to do this. He was from a pure civil trained flight background and flight hours less than 2000.
That would never happen in the UK.
Even Michael Alsbury of the tragic Space Ship Two incident was an Aero Graduate with a Civil Flight training background, and not a trace of military fast jet experience.
So it just highlights the contrast in attitude between the UK and the US.