DERA Boscombe Down on The Airshow 21st Sep
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DERA Boscombe Down on The Airshow 21st Sep
So did anyone else see the programme?A suitably top level piece of fluff on the stuff going on down at Boscombe I thought.
The Jaguar piece was a little short - what about all the JAG97 stuff & the introduction of HOTAS, TIALD etc etc. Also noted that they were playing with GPWS. Is there not an EGPWS tasking - would have thought that the mudmovers would appreciate a digital terrain avoidance system in place of moving maps or DMGs.
Nice to see TIARA still busy. Interesting claim that it is the most advanced fighter in europe. Surely it is an interceptor? Also suspect that our friends at Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen may diagree!!
Also a pity that they seemed to ignore the less sexy stuff down there - rotary test and heavy aircraft must be about due some coverage!!
Thoughts?
The Jaguar piece was a little short - what about all the JAG97 stuff & the introduction of HOTAS, TIALD etc etc. Also noted that they were playing with GPWS. Is there not an EGPWS tasking - would have thought that the mudmovers would appreciate a digital terrain avoidance system in place of moving maps or DMGs.
Nice to see TIARA still busy. Interesting claim that it is the most advanced fighter in europe. Surely it is an interceptor? Also suspect that our friends at Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen may diagree!!
Also a pity that they seemed to ignore the less sexy stuff down there - rotary test and heavy aircraft must be about due some coverage!!
Thoughts?
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Totally agree. Those particular presenters really annoy me by the way they trivialise any topic.
As soon as they started with that bit outside the fence saying you need a pass to get in here I knew all was lost.
There was so much they could have done with that access. As you say big stuff and rotary would have been very well worth doing. In the event it appeared they could not fill half an hour without going off into repeats.
Which fact probably says it all.
As soon as they started with that bit outside the fence saying you need a pass to get in here I knew all was lost.
There was so much they could have done with that access. As you say big stuff and rotary would have been very well worth doing. In the event it appeared they could not fill half an hour without going off into repeats.
Which fact probably says it all.
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Couldn't agree more; there's more than enough going on at BD to pack out a complete programme, so why the "here's the best of the rest of the series" filler pieces? :-(
Also, the fat stuff and rotes have a heck of a lot on at the moment, so even walking around aircraft in the hangars (avoiding if one must the expense of flying and hooking up lipstick cameras) would have given Jo and Joe Public some idea of what their Petrol Duty is being spent on
The MAR work at BD seems to get short shrift too; OK, new and sexy R&D stuff is v. interesting & photogenic, but so is a lot of the work the old A&AEE types get up to!
The FTE's role would be a good one for TV to focus on some time, rather than yet another tp on the screen - we might even get some recruitment out of it so long as they don't mention the money! 
EX-FTE, I wonder if we've met? It certainly seems from other posts that you and I have similar aspirations and have been in the same part of the world at the same time before now!
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BossEyed 8-)
Also, the fat stuff and rotes have a heck of a lot on at the moment, so even walking around aircraft in the hangars (avoiding if one must the expense of flying and hooking up lipstick cameras) would have given Jo and Joe Public some idea of what their Petrol Duty is being spent on
The MAR work at BD seems to get short shrift too; OK, new and sexy R&D stuff is v. interesting & photogenic, but so is a lot of the work the old A&AEE types get up to!
The FTE's role would be a good one for TV to focus on some time, rather than yet another tp on the screen
- we might even get some recruitment out of it so long as they don't mention the money! EX-FTE, I wonder if we've met? It certainly seems from other posts that you and I have similar aspirations and have been in the same part of the world at the same time before now!
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BossEyed 8-)
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All I'Ve got to say is a waste of time considering what you've all said. But having seen last week's Journal I feel the place is clutching at straws. Sorry but by 2005/2010 will we see another housing estate & industrial park 'cos MOD needs the money for the boys & girls up front.
I'm sorry if I sound so negative but I've lived and worked around here for over 25 years and the same has been said all that time. As my mates who were all ex apprentices said 'you move on' but what a waste. The planes they used work on, now contractors work on.
So any bets on the dates?
I'm sorry if I sound so negative but I've lived and worked around here for over 25 years and the same has been said all that time. As my mates who were all ex apprentices said 'you move on' but what a waste. The planes they used work on, now contractors work on.
So any bets on the dates?
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King's, it is indeed true that a fair amount of the work that used to be done by Boscombe in the past is now done at the Contractor's facilities, but it is still undertaken by DERA staff as MoD's representatives to allow MoD to be an "intelligent customer". There is also a heck of a lot of work going on at Boscombe itself - surely you've seen all the new stuff flying about, and trust me there's more to come.
Don't believe all you read in the Journal - Brize are unlikely to let the FSTA contract go without a fight, and things are rarely as simple as they might appear. An application for planning permission does not mean squat in the long run, as in another context I am personally painfully aware!
The privatisation of Aircraft Test & Evaluation, along with much of the rest of DERA, is bound to change the relationship with MoD, but it is AT&E's aim to ensure that they are still the centre of expertise that MoD calls upon first for *independent* T&E. We can (and possibly will!) argue for some time quite what independent means in this context, but my view is that Boscombe should continue to do what it has been doing for nearly 60 years now, and that is looking out for the interests of the front line aircrew (and the taxpayer, of course).
AT&E certainly will not be gone by 2005 unless Our Tone's meteor detection system fails to seek and destroy the incoming Big One, since there is a heck of a lot of work already coming our way over that timeframe.
Beyond that who knows, but despite the bad rep Boscombe may have with some in the Front Line and in certain parts of DPA (some of it - the minority, honest! - deserved, it pains me to say), the place would be sorely missed if the Contractors had free rein let me assure you.
I am by no means a cheer-leader for DERA as it stands, but I am very much a supporter of the ethos that it is *essential* MoD has an independant arbiter for Aircraft T&E (and of course R&D, which with the demise of Farnborough & Bedford airfields happens mostly at BD these days). I am certainly not alone in this either. Once again the place is heading for a significant change with Privatisation, but I cannot see how this will be the end of it as a working field, albeit the emphasis may change slightly. It's quite possible there may be *more* work at BD rather than the less you imply if we have free rein to undertake more commercial work.
Now, if only we can get our costs to the Customer down...
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BossEyed 8-)
Don't believe all you read in the Journal - Brize are unlikely to let the FSTA contract go without a fight, and things are rarely as simple as they might appear. An application for planning permission does not mean squat in the long run, as in another context I am personally painfully aware!
The privatisation of Aircraft Test & Evaluation, along with much of the rest of DERA, is bound to change the relationship with MoD, but it is AT&E's aim to ensure that they are still the centre of expertise that MoD calls upon first for *independent* T&E. We can (and possibly will!) argue for some time quite what independent means in this context, but my view is that Boscombe should continue to do what it has been doing for nearly 60 years now, and that is looking out for the interests of the front line aircrew (and the taxpayer, of course).
AT&E certainly will not be gone by 2005 unless Our Tone's meteor detection system fails to seek and destroy the incoming Big One, since there is a heck of a lot of work already coming our way over that timeframe.
Beyond that who knows, but despite the bad rep Boscombe may have with some in the Front Line and in certain parts of DPA (some of it - the minority, honest! - deserved, it pains me to say), the place would be sorely missed if the Contractors had free rein let me assure you.
I am by no means a cheer-leader for DERA as it stands, but I am very much a supporter of the ethos that it is *essential* MoD has an independant arbiter for Aircraft T&E (and of course R&D, which with the demise of Farnborough & Bedford airfields happens mostly at BD these days). I am certainly not alone in this either. Once again the place is heading for a significant change with Privatisation, but I cannot see how this will be the end of it as a working field, albeit the emphasis may change slightly. It's quite possible there may be *more* work at BD rather than the less you imply if we have free rein to undertake more commercial work.
Now, if only we can get our costs to the Customer down...
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BossEyed 8-)
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Agree with you on all the principles BE, but I somehow doubt BDN can compete with various private organisations on cost or time for civil certification work. I hope it is left largely alone, but it exists as an expensive tool for evaluating expensive tools - I'm not convinced that that is compatible with being a rapid and inexpensive certifier of civil aircraft.
G
G
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Agree with you about civil certification, Genghis (well, in the main; there are a very few specialised things BD could do...)
However, by "Commercial work" I didn't mean civil certification but rather other non-MoD work. There are niches out there for AT&E which have not yet been explored.
Thanks, John
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BossEyed 8-)
However, by "Commercial work" I didn't mean civil certification but rather other non-MoD work. There are niches out there for AT&E which have not yet been explored.
Thanks, John
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BossEyed 8-)
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All I've got to say is I love a good thread and I love a good talk to. But work prevents me over the next week see you all for a good debate til friday pm. Hopefully in the Antrobus or later on the next door when Mrs KA scrapes me off the floor I'll buy a drink if you make yourselves known.
Stiil how many say you will not be independent in the future.
Stiil how many say you will not be independent in the future.
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How about the Bridge?
KA, Stop moaning about the FJ’s keeping you awake at night and get the beers in !!
(why for that siren last night??)
Keep the place open, there's to much talk about what should be thrown away because of the defence cuts (SAR esp), Its about time someone turned around and said enough is enough !!
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Tir Tenrie
Sniping from "a'far"
KA, Stop moaning about the FJ’s keeping you awake at night and get the beers in !!
(why for that siren last night??)
Keep the place open, there's to much talk about what should be thrown away because of the defence cuts (SAR esp), Its about time someone turned around and said enough is enough !!
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Tir Tenrie
Sniping from "a'far"
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I agree everyone's comments above-but are you passing them up the chain? A few of you are obviously senior experienced members of DERA/BD fraternity.
I particularly agree with the comment about HATS and Rotes. I work closely with the HATS mob and although they don't seem to have much exciting stuff going on the Airborne trials stuff was good and surely would make interesting TV (especially as it shows we are ensuring equipment dropped from airplanes over our houses is safe).
Also I can not believe they didn't have the Apache doing its stuff or a look at the Merlin or a chat about the new SF Chinook coming to BD.
The Apache could surely show off how 'smart' procurement can work and of course it looks great.
Who ever gets the film crew as far as the gate...well done...but get a descent 'full' program together.
Thanks for listening.
[This message has been edited by Twilight (edited 20 November 2000).]
I particularly agree with the comment about HATS and Rotes. I work closely with the HATS mob and although they don't seem to have much exciting stuff going on the Airborne trials stuff was good and surely would make interesting TV (especially as it shows we are ensuring equipment dropped from airplanes over our houses is safe).
Also I can not believe they didn't have the Apache doing its stuff or a look at the Merlin or a chat about the new SF Chinook coming to BD.
The Apache could surely show off how 'smart' procurement can work and of course it looks great.
Who ever gets the film crew as far as the gate...well done...but get a descent 'full' program together.
Thanks for listening.
[This message has been edited by Twilight (edited 20 November 2000).]
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Twilight - so far as passing things up the chain goes, all I can say is "Oh Yes!"
However: TV is as TV does, and unless DERA lays on the stuff for them (which believe me would be a prodigous feat just at the moment), the media will always take the line of least resistance.
Perhaps we could ask Sting to lend us some of his media savvy...
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BossEyed 8-)
However: TV is as TV does, and unless DERA lays on the stuff for them (which believe me would be a prodigous feat just at the moment), the media will always take the line of least resistance.
Perhaps we could ask Sting to lend us some of his media savvy...
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BossEyed 8-)
