Delay Codes and Delay Talks
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Delay Codes and Delay Talks
Hi there,
c
Can someone explain how the thing with the delay codes is working? I know that there are IATA delay codes and some that are specific to an airline. But first of all: WHEN do you have a delay? Does it always count from STD even if it arrived late but you put the minutes on rotation?
For example (I picked a random flight right now):
6B171 from GOT to SPU - STD 17:15 / ATD 17:38
So we have a delay with 23 minutes here (compared to STD). We have to options now:
a) the aircraft arrived in GOT on time
b) the aircraft arrived in GOT late (lets say 5 minutes late)
a) I would say you as a ground handling agent have to justify the 23 minutes. What do you do? Do you talk to captain and ask if there is anything you can put some minutes on? Maybe even if you know you were just slow?
b) How does the delay code work with the 5 minutes late arrival? What do you have to do as a GOA? Do you put 5 minutes on 93 and then you have to justify the other 18 minutes?
I am still new at this and hope you can help me out
c
Can someone explain how the thing with the delay codes is working? I know that there are IATA delay codes and some that are specific to an airline. But first of all: WHEN do you have a delay? Does it always count from STD even if it arrived late but you put the minutes on rotation?
For example (I picked a random flight right now):
6B171 from GOT to SPU - STD 17:15 / ATD 17:38
So we have a delay with 23 minutes here (compared to STD). We have to options now:
a) the aircraft arrived in GOT on time
b) the aircraft arrived in GOT late (lets say 5 minutes late)
a) I would say you as a ground handling agent have to justify the 23 minutes. What do you do? Do you talk to captain and ask if there is anything you can put some minutes on? Maybe even if you know you were just slow?
b) How does the delay code work with the 5 minutes late arrival? What do you have to do as a GOA? Do you put 5 minutes on 93 and then you have to justify the other 18 minutes?
I am still new at this and hope you can help me out
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Basically every operator has its own set of minimum ground times/minimum turn times per aircraft.. Let's say, you are dispatching an aircraft with a minimum turn time of 30 minutes. STD is 1715. But the aircraft is onblocks at 1650. So your aircraft has to push by 1720. Anything after 1720 then has to be accounted for by dispatcher/crew. So you'd have your 5 minutes of 93 and then whatever other codes on top too. Might be slot, PRMs, catering, fuel etc. The code(s) are usually discussed between the dispatcher and the captain, with the dispatcher aiming to seek any additional delay reasons prior to doors closing.
I often find the crew are very switched on with regards to any extra delays incurred, but sometimes don't have the full picture with what goes on inside the terminal. For example, at small airports like mine without common-user gates/systems, the airline may only supply 2 gate computers for boarding reconciliation and may schedule 2 flights to depart at the same time. Not a problem as there are 2 gate computers for that airline. If a third flight from that airline has a delayed inbound flight and you now have to get 3 aircraft turned around but only 2 gate computers available, the captain more often than not will just see that as "late boarding DL15" to the third flight as they rarely have information on how their airline equips the terminal/gate area. Whereas the dispatcher would suggest perhaps "DL87 Airport Facilities/Gate Space" or DL06 "No gate space available due to own airline activity" as they have further information available than the crew.
With regards to just being 'slow', I usually see there being reasons to why a certain area was 'slow'. Perhaps the cabin tidy wasn't completed within the allotted period or baggage onload started late because the ramp staff also deal with WCHC passengers or perhaps the Captain requested a toilet service or water service, which means you now have to allocate one or two people elsewhere at short notice. But admittedly there are days when you have to offload and onload 300 bags total within 25 minutes on the last flight of the day when the ramp agents have cramp and are tired (no airlines mentioned there =) and it is just slow, but you just have to be honest and say so to the crew if it goes late.
The crew I see on a day-to-day basis over various airlines are all very friendly, switched on and amiable and as long as treated with respect, will treat me the same in return. Also a shared passion for aviation does help!
It's worth noting that STA/ATA and STD/ATD refer to onblocks and offblocks, rather than land and airborne times in most places.
I often find the crew are very switched on with regards to any extra delays incurred, but sometimes don't have the full picture with what goes on inside the terminal. For example, at small airports like mine without common-user gates/systems, the airline may only supply 2 gate computers for boarding reconciliation and may schedule 2 flights to depart at the same time. Not a problem as there are 2 gate computers for that airline. If a third flight from that airline has a delayed inbound flight and you now have to get 3 aircraft turned around but only 2 gate computers available, the captain more often than not will just see that as "late boarding DL15" to the third flight as they rarely have information on how their airline equips the terminal/gate area. Whereas the dispatcher would suggest perhaps "DL87 Airport Facilities/Gate Space" or DL06 "No gate space available due to own airline activity" as they have further information available than the crew.
With regards to just being 'slow', I usually see there being reasons to why a certain area was 'slow'. Perhaps the cabin tidy wasn't completed within the allotted period or baggage onload started late because the ramp staff also deal with WCHC passengers or perhaps the Captain requested a toilet service or water service, which means you now have to allocate one or two people elsewhere at short notice. But admittedly there are days when you have to offload and onload 300 bags total within 25 minutes on the last flight of the day when the ramp agents have cramp and are tired (no airlines mentioned there =) and it is just slow, but you just have to be honest and say so to the crew if it goes late.
The crew I see on a day-to-day basis over various airlines are all very friendly, switched on and amiable and as long as treated with respect, will treat me the same in return. Also a shared passion for aviation does help!
It's worth noting that STA/ATA and STD/ATD refer to onblocks and offblocks, rather than land and airborne times in most places.
Last edited by Scinfaxi; 15th Sep 2018 at 04:32. Reason: Additional info
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The reply above sums it up well. As somone who deals with delay codes daily let me add my two cents.
Yes carriers have their own minimum groundtimes and can reduce their scheduled time to minimum. Two carriers I deal with have a minimum groundtime if they arrive late. So the argument delayed due to late inbound doesn't fly with them. IF they do arrive later than minimum ground time one would calculate late arrival only till minimum ground time and the rest station delaly. So example 1700-1845. That is 75 min schedule. A/C arrives 1705. Minimum is 70. Anything after 1845 will be station. If A/C arrives 1720. Late arrival will be calculated for 15 min only. Rest is station. At my airport reps assign delays. So I will take they delay codes than either dispute them or accept them. Sometimes we goof up, sometimes they do. Usually 90% of our delays are late arrival or passenger related. Passenger delays are usually late reporting to gate due duty-free shopping or eating. Or simple passengers don't care and think the airline will take them along regardless. This of course delays the turn as we need to locate the bags. Unload the A/C and reload. So for me thats Mandatory Security right there. Reps usually assign it if they pushed enough. Also we don't have a lot of remote bay handling so if we do have an A/C on remote I get a lot of airports facility delays. It really is about knowing what is happening during the turn and then assigning the delays to what has impacted the flight. One simply has to calculate when the problem occured and when it was solved and how much of an impact it had.
Yes carriers have their own minimum groundtimes and can reduce their scheduled time to minimum. Two carriers I deal with have a minimum groundtime if they arrive late. So the argument delayed due to late inbound doesn't fly with them. IF they do arrive later than minimum ground time one would calculate late arrival only till minimum ground time and the rest station delaly. So example 1700-1845. That is 75 min schedule. A/C arrives 1705. Minimum is 70. Anything after 1845 will be station. If A/C arrives 1720. Late arrival will be calculated for 15 min only. Rest is station. At my airport reps assign delays. So I will take they delay codes than either dispute them or accept them. Sometimes we goof up, sometimes they do. Usually 90% of our delays are late arrival or passenger related. Passenger delays are usually late reporting to gate due duty-free shopping or eating. Or simple passengers don't care and think the airline will take them along regardless. This of course delays the turn as we need to locate the bags. Unload the A/C and reload. So for me thats Mandatory Security right there. Reps usually assign it if they pushed enough. Also we don't have a lot of remote bay handling so if we do have an A/C on remote I get a lot of airports facility delays. It really is about knowing what is happening during the turn and then assigning the delays to what has impacted the flight. One simply has to calculate when the problem occured and when it was solved and how much of an impact it had.
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Thanks for your answers.
But what if A/C arrives earlier then sheduled? Let's say: STA 1700 - STD 1750. MTT is 40 minutes. A/C arrives 1650. Is my target always MTT? In this case offblock 1730 and everything over this 40 MTT (so later then 1730) is delay I have to justify?
But what if A/C arrives earlier then sheduled? Let's say: STA 1700 - STD 1750. MTT is 40 minutes. A/C arrives 1650. Is my target always MTT? In this case offblock 1730 and everything over this 40 MTT (so later then 1730) is delay I have to justify?
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Most airports have rules about how long before STD you can push. For example, our first flight departs for LGW. Whilst it is within our capability to get the plane ready for push as early as possible, it is not supposed to push more than 5 minutes early as LGW is a Level 3 Coordinated Airfield. Same with many international airports within Europe.
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Thanks for your answers.
But what if A/C arrives earlier then sheduled? Let's say: STA 1700 - STD 1750. MTT is 40 minutes. A/C arrives 1650. Is my target always MTT? In this case offblock 1730 and everything over this 40 MTT (so later then 1730) is delay I have to justify?
But what if A/C arrives earlier then sheduled? Let's say: STA 1700 - STD 1750. MTT is 40 minutes. A/C arrives 1650. Is my target always MTT? In this case offblock 1730 and everything over this 40 MTT (so later then 1730) is delay I have to justify?
Minimum groundtimes are only there is case if a late arrival to reduce rotation impact.
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Most airports have rules about how long before STD you can push. For example, our first flight departs for LGW. Whilst it is within our capability to get the plane ready for push as early as possible, it is not supposed to push more than 5 minutes early as LGW is a Level 3 Coordinated Airfield. Same with many international airports within Europe.
