Baggage handler seriously injured at YYZ
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,852
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Baggage handler seriously injured at YYZ
I see that the Toronto Star, like so many other media outlets, does not know the difference between the apron/ramp and the runway. I trust the remainder of the report is more accurate.
Nevertheless a very unfortunate accident for all concerned, and yet another example of how ridiculously low wages are affecting performance at work in airports around the world.
Nevertheless a very unfortunate accident for all concerned, and yet another example of how ridiculously low wages are affecting performance at work in airports around the world.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: DORSET
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You pay peanuts you get monkeys
Not because staff are monkeys, but because wages are cut to the bone and training,which is expensive, is also cut to the bone. Whatever industry, the customer should pay a proper price for a service. Training ,safety ,equipment, rest breaks ,and decent salary are not perks,they are a right in the 21st century.
Not because staff are monkeys, but because wages are cut to the bone and training,which is expensive, is also cut to the bone. Whatever industry, the customer should pay a proper price for a service. Training ,safety ,equipment, rest breaks ,and decent salary are not perks,they are a right in the 21st century.
Resident insomniac
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 79
Posts: 1,873
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
In any sphere of work there are those workers who are there because it is what they want to do, as well as those who are there purely 'for the money'.
If the money is meagre, (and inadequate to support accommodation and food) then workers will struggle for extra hours (with associated tiredness, especially among those who are not there as their vocation).
I recall from personal experience a period when I was required to work considerable overtime - there was little opportunity to spend the income, and, although I was there by choice as my chosen occupation, I eventually became disenchanted because of the lack of 'a life' outside my work.
Maybe the injured party was not dedicated to his job, but merely struggling to get through his tasks (including driving) with the ambition of getting a rest period?
Under such circumstances it is easy to become careless (as seems to be the case).
If the money is meagre, (and inadequate to support accommodation and food) then workers will struggle for extra hours (with associated tiredness, especially among those who are not there as their vocation).
I recall from personal experience a period when I was required to work considerable overtime - there was little opportunity to spend the income, and, although I was there by choice as my chosen occupation, I eventually became disenchanted because of the lack of 'a life' outside my work.
Maybe the injured party was not dedicated to his job, but merely struggling to get through his tasks (including driving) with the ambition of getting a rest period?
Under such circumstances it is easy to become careless (as seems to be the case).
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: FG central
Age: 53
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Or he had been asked, yet again, to cover someone else's shift who did not turn up for work.
To be honest, having worked in ground handling, I'm surprised there aren't more accidents. Most people are there because of the flexible working hours or as a second job and are taught the bare minimum to legally get the job done, then left to do their thing with very little oversight or regular procedural checks.
To be honest, having worked in ground handling, I'm surprised there aren't more accidents. Most people are there because of the flexible working hours or as a second job and are taught the bare minimum to legally get the job done, then left to do their thing with very little oversight or regular procedural checks.
What is the current fuss about working 16 hours all about? It is more accurately a 16 hours shift, as it is highly unlikely that he worked for more than 8-9 hours due to the aircraft schedules, the rest of the time he would be in the crew room.
When I started off in aviation there were those who would sign up for overtime and those who preferred not to. I was happier to work 16 hours, my normal 8 hours shift plus 8 on overtime) than to work an 8 hours shift on my day off. You never had to physically work all the hours, and being at work wasn't so bad as it was generally a good crowd you were working with. Those who volunteered for the overtime were usually doing it to pay off loans for cars or holidays, or bank overdrafts.
Tragic as this accident is it does reflect that with airlines demanding shorter and shorter turnround times whilst having higher load factors, and on time performance being subject to financial penalties if not achieved, both by the GHA and also by the passenger in Europe, the ramp staff feel the pressure of time more than the pressure of safety. You can train until you are blue in the face, but in the workplace Duty Officers/Supervisors all pressure the staff for on time.
The management need to be careful that the message to its staff is always safety over on time.
Is it sadder for a youngster to die than an older person? What warped thinking is that? An older person robbed of their retirement and time with grandchildren is just as sad to my way of thinking.
“Your heart just breaks, because it’s someone who’s just starting their life,” said Sean Smith of the Toronto Airport Workers’ Council.
When I started off in aviation there were those who would sign up for overtime and those who preferred not to. I was happier to work 16 hours, my normal 8 hours shift plus 8 on overtime) than to work an 8 hours shift on my day off. You never had to physically work all the hours, and being at work wasn't so bad as it was generally a good crowd you were working with. Those who volunteered for the overtime were usually doing it to pay off loans for cars or holidays, or bank overdrafts.
Tragic as this accident is it does reflect that with airlines demanding shorter and shorter turnround times whilst having higher load factors, and on time performance being subject to financial penalties if not achieved, both by the GHA and also by the passenger in Europe, the ramp staff feel the pressure of time more than the pressure of safety. You can train until you are blue in the face, but in the workplace Duty Officers/Supervisors all pressure the staff for on time.
The management need to be careful that the message to its staff is always safety over on time.
Is it sadder for a youngster to die than an older person? What warped thinking is that? An older person robbed of their retirement and time with grandchildren is just as sad to my way of thinking.
“Your heart just breaks, because it’s someone who’s just starting their life,” said Sean Smith of the Toronto Airport Workers’ Council.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England
Posts: 1,008
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What is the current fuss about working 16 hours all about? It is more accurately a 16 hours shift, as it is highly unlikely that he worked for more than 8-9 hours due to the aircraft schedules, the rest of the time he would be in the crew room.
Not sure what airport you worked at, or when you worked there, but these days it's none stop, all day
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: eastcoastoz
Age: 76
Posts: 1,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Further to my last post (#8) re the job I baled out of..
I found myself working amongst a combination of plain idiots, stress-merchants and yobbos whose motto was "A quick job's a good job" - regardless of the consequences.
Something was going to have to give - and I didn't want to be around when it did.
I found myself working amongst a combination of plain idiots, stress-merchants and yobbos whose motto was "A quick job's a good job" - regardless of the consequences.
Something was going to have to give - and I didn't want to be around when it did.
Quote:
What is the current fuss about working 16 hours all about? It is more accurately a 16 hours shift, as it is highly unlikely that he worked for more than 8-9 hours due to the aircraft schedules, the rest of the time he would be in the crew room.
I wish this was the case Not sure what airport you worked at, or when you worked there, but these days it's none stop, all day
What is the current fuss about working 16 hours all about? It is more accurately a 16 hours shift, as it is highly unlikely that he worked for more than 8-9 hours due to the aircraft schedules, the rest of the time he would be in the crew room.
I wish this was the case Not sure what airport you worked at, or when you worked there, but these days it's none stop, all day
Sure I understand the peaks are still manic and during these peaks everyone works flat out.
The 3rd paragraph of my response acknowledges that times have changed with the locos and that turnrounds have no time to spare, and yes I have worked at an airport where these pressures existed. However there are peaks and troughs at every loco hub and given 25 minutes turnrounds and a 16 hour shift it seems highly unlikely that one loading team would carry out 32 turnrounds on their shift.
The 3rd paragraph of my response acknowledges that times have changed with the locos and that turnrounds have no time to spare, and yes I have worked at an airport where these pressures existed. However there are peaks and troughs at every loco hub and given 25 minutes turnrounds and a 16 hour shift it seems highly unlikely that one loading team would carry out 32 turnrounds on their shift.
Regulation
The issue for me is not so much the fatigue element (bad though it is) but the fact that standards in GH are largely voluntary.
Can anyone explain why, when pilots, cabin crew, ATCOs and engineers are licensed, GH workers are not? Ground damage is one of the biggest areas of operating costs for most airlines, and ramp workers are killed and injured with monotonous regularity across the globe. So why isn't the activity regulated like the rest of the chain?
There is an ICAO panel running on the topic but the result is likely to be watered down to mere compliance with ISAGO or similar, because the GHAs don't want to be regulated.
Can anyone explain why, when pilots, cabin crew, ATCOs and engineers are licensed, GH workers are not? Ground damage is one of the biggest areas of operating costs for most airlines, and ramp workers are killed and injured with monotonous regularity across the globe. So why isn't the activity regulated like the rest of the chain?
There is an ICAO panel running on the topic but the result is likely to be watered down to mere compliance with ISAGO or similar, because the GHAs don't want to be regulated.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Northern Territory Australia
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
16 hour shift?
no roster for manual employees will include a 16 hour shift. More likely is that the man worked a double shift voluntarily becuase of staff shortage - someone pulled a sickie and needed covering. Many staff work doubles on the ground in my experience
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: FG central
Age: 53
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Overtime doesn't really matter to you when you are on your sixth or seventh straight 11-13 hour shift due to poor scheduling, lack of staff or whatever. And the overtime rate I got about 5 years ago was capped at 1.5x normal rate over your weekly rostered hours, not just how much more you worked on a shift. Not that it mattered, the rotating roster included late nights, early starts and weekends with no penalties for those hours.
I see a lot of pilots complain about how dangerous back of clock operations are, but no one bats an eyelid at someone working rotating 10-12 hour shifts that start at say 4am or finish at 1am driving 10-20 tonne vehicles up to aircraft.
Ground handling has serious fatigue issues that aren't even vaguely taken seriously by the industry.
Every employee deserves to leave the job site alive, no matter what their wage.
I see a lot of pilots complain about how dangerous back of clock operations are, but no one bats an eyelid at someone working rotating 10-12 hour shifts that start at say 4am or finish at 1am driving 10-20 tonne vehicles up to aircraft.
Ground handling has serious fatigue issues that aren't even vaguely taken seriously by the industry.
Every employee deserves to leave the job site alive, no matter what their wage.
