Airlines using CLC
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Airlines using CLC
Hi guys,
Could any body help me in letting me know which airlines are using CLC currently? and load masters, working in CLC, report to which department? is it Flight operations or ground handling department?
Thnks
Could any body help me in letting me know which airlines are using CLC currently? and load masters, working in CLC, report to which department? is it Flight operations or ground handling department?
Thnks
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BA use CLC with a few hubs around the world (Gatwick, Berlin as well as a few others I can't remember of the top of my head.) Information is sent by telex to the relevant desk at a CLC hub and the final loadsheet is sent via ACARS (or ground to air radio for non ACARS a/c) during the taxi out.
I'm not sure what department it comes under but the majority of the time it works well. I preferred the days when dispatchers did their own load control and loadsheets, however. It was just one less link in the chain where potential delays could occur.
Just to add, I think Servisair have their own CLC service with a hub in MAN for the UK operation. So although even individual airlines might not officially use CLC, all their loadsheets are prepared remotely. However I believe they're still handed to the flight deck before pushback like the old days.
I'm not sure what department it comes under but the majority of the time it works well. I preferred the days when dispatchers did their own load control and loadsheets, however. It was just one less link in the chain where potential delays could occur.
Just to add, I think Servisair have their own CLC service with a hub in MAN for the UK operation. So although even individual airlines might not officially use CLC, all their loadsheets are prepared remotely. However I believe they're still handed to the flight deck before pushback like the old days.
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the new big thing
CLC is the new big thing, the new systems are being designed for a CLC environment and do not work as well locally at the stations. I am a convert to CLC for passenger aircraft. Overall it’s much better to have a CLC than do the calculations locally. For Cargo aircraft it’s probably better locally due to the nature of the load.
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I disagree. Far better to have a properly trained dispatcher to do the loadsheet at the gate. Using CLC just slows everything down, particularly when last minute decisions/changes are needed, and is an unnecessary link in the chain.
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LMCs
All airlines have their own LMC limits, and if with a particular flight the LMCs exceed the limits, i can radio my ops controller and he can have a new CLC loadsheet for me almost by the time i get to the printer. (With our operation the dispatcher doesnt send figs, its an ops controller) It is very rare for any LMCs to exceed the limits though.
All airlines have their own LMC limits, and if with a particular flight the LMCs exceed the limits, i can radio my ops controller and he can have a new CLC loadsheet for me almost by the time i get to the printer. (With our operation the dispatcher doesnt send figs, its an ops controller) It is very rare for any LMCs to exceed the limits though.
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I disagree. Far better to have a properly trained dispatcher to do the loadsheet at the gate. Using CLC just slows everything down, particularly when last minute decisions/changes are needed, and is an unnecessary link in the chain.
There are costs savings (sorry, that matters these days)
More data directly entered from other systems (less human input means less errors)
Better utilisation (requires fewer staff which means less training costs)
Sad that it is the roll of a dispatcher has been de skilled and is not the job that it was.
It is VERY important that your CLC are well trained and highly motivated or the CLC will fall apart.
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Quoting STN Ramp Rat
That is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it, but I am afraid that in this instance, your opinion is wrong. CLC is all that is wrong with the ground handling industry these days. They are de-skilling what SHOULD be skilled positions. Having CLC essentially reduces the role of the dispatcher to that of a co-ordinator when in fact the dispatcher should be highly trained and skilled, and, have flight safety as his first priority and everything else secondary to that. I have seen a lot of so-called dispatchers that don't even have any idea WHAT "CG" is and would be totally lost if they had to calculate it themselves! They are paperwork runners and turn around co-ordinators, but certainly NOT dispatchers!
CLC is the new big thing, the new systems are being designed for a CLC environment and do not work as well locally at the stations. I am a convert to CLC for passenger aircraft. Overall it’s much better to have a CLC than do the calculations locally. For Cargo aircraft it’s probably better locally due to the nature of the load.
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In Amsterdam they have no dispatchers or turnround coordinators, it’s a separate service you can buy not a standard service. Carriers in the US have been using CLC for over 20 years without a problem and there are no turnround coordinators.
It’s fairly new in Europe and as with all new things people don’t like change!!! Done badly it’s appalling, done correctly its far better and far more cost effective that haveing an expensive dispatcher at the gate and as for experience the productivity of CLC means that CLC agents often have far more experience than dispatchers at the gate. You are correct the roll of the dispatcher in the UK has effectively been deskilled and will be consigned to history in the next few years. As an ex dispatcher its sad but that does not mean its not going to happen.
It’s fairly new in Europe and as with all new things people don’t like change!!! Done badly it’s appalling, done correctly its far better and far more cost effective that haveing an expensive dispatcher at the gate and as for experience the productivity of CLC means that CLC agents often have far more experience than dispatchers at the gate. You are correct the roll of the dispatcher in the UK has effectively been deskilled and will be consigned to history in the next few years. As an ex dispatcher its sad but that does not mean its not going to happen.
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Central Load Control is here to stay as frankly it works well for most airlines. Gone are the days when you need individual employees at each station to be responsible, prepare and run out the paperwork. Now thanks to technology a group a fraction of the size can accomplish the same on a global basis.
In addition tie in things like ACARS, gone are many of the previous delays such as waiting on loadsheets, notoc’s etc as planes can taxi out ontime and receive their numbers on the way to the runway.
Just like how airlines can today flight plan and dispatch from single global facility and must not rely on regional offices to create flight plans as in the past, they can very successfully provide load planning and weight and balance functions from centralized set ups.
In addition tie in things like ACARS, gone are many of the previous delays such as waiting on loadsheets, notoc’s etc as planes can taxi out ontime and receive their numbers on the way to the runway.
Just like how airlines can today flight plan and dispatch from single global facility and must not rely on regional offices to create flight plans as in the past, they can very successfully provide load planning and weight and balance functions from centralized set ups.
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check facts and stats
Quote "I disagree. Far better to have a properly trained dispatcher to do the loadsheet at the gate. Using CLC just slows everything down, particularly when last minute decisions/changes are needed, and is an unnecessary link in the chain. "
Have you seen BA's punctuality performance recently.........how can you say CLC just slows everything down..........
BTW a properly trained CLC Agent is just as good as a properly trained dispatcher.............
Have you seen BA's punctuality performance recently.........how can you say CLC just slows everything down..........
BTW a properly trained CLC Agent is just as good as a properly trained dispatcher.............
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Have you seen BA's punctuality performance recently.........how can you say CLC just slows everything down..........
BA's CLC system improves punctuality because the final loadsheet is ACARSed to the a/c; however this could easily be done from the gate. The actual data entry, which goes into preparing the loadsheet takes longer. If we still had to hand final a final paper LS to the crew, whilst using CLC we would see delays significantly increase, this is because data has to be entered twice:
For example the loaders come in with the completed LIR. The details of this need to be sent to CLC before the LS is issued. The turnaround coordinator (TRC) enters this into a mask, which is then telexed to a specific desk at the hub servicing your flight. The CLC agent then checks and enters exactly the same data into the system, albeit in a different format, which goes to create the loadsheet. Therefore the actual CLC service is not quicker than an experienced dispatcher entering the data locally, the delay is simply absorbed by the a/c receiving the figures on taxi out, rather than whilst sat at the gate.
As a TRC I always keep an eye on the trim/weights and progress of the flight. I've seen less experienced TRCs let an aircraft go and CLC have only just then realised its out of trim. Its then a complicated procedure of moving pax around the cabin whilst its sat at the holding point, or calling the a/c back and reloading it - not pretty.
Having said that it is a system which generally works well. BA's CLC agents are extremely competent at what they do and we very rarely have problems with them. However as a handling agent for other airlines, I create my own loadsheets at the gate every single day, and achieve the same results without the added layer of complexity. However I do understand the reasons behind CLC: Money, naturally.
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For example the loaders come in with the completed LIR. The details of this need to be sent to CLC before the LS is issued. The turnaround coordinator (TRC) enters this into a mask,
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within the next couple of years this will be done by the ramp team leader via a PDA. it will probarbly be an I-phone Ap before we know it
Will airlines be willing to invest in this infrastructure, when for the most part it works fine as it is? I wouldn't trust our loaders with a PDA anyway!!
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If memory serves well, BA did some trials (or was planning some trials) with portable sets in FRA. Never seen it work when BRU was still CLC station. Don't know what happened with it.
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Trash Hauler
I couldn't agree with you more. The flight crew I deal with would much rather have a proper flight dispatcher who understands weight and balance and can make on the spot decisions without having to refer to CLC than an untrained paper runner who can't even read a loadsheet, let alone check it!
On a practical level, it also takes me longer to send fuel figures to CLC than it would to enter them and produce the loadsheet myself...
I understand that using CLC saves money, but I do not agree with the way the role of a dispatcher is being deskilled, and IMHO it's only a matter of time before an untrained TCO or dispatcher fails to spot a CLC error and an accident happens as a result.
I couldn't agree with you more. The flight crew I deal with would much rather have a proper flight dispatcher who understands weight and balance and can make on the spot decisions without having to refer to CLC than an untrained paper runner who can't even read a loadsheet, let alone check it!
On a practical level, it also takes me longer to send fuel figures to CLC than it would to enter them and produce the loadsheet myself...
I understand that using CLC saves money, but I do not agree with the way the role of a dispatcher is being deskilled, and IMHO it's only a matter of time before an untrained TCO or dispatcher fails to spot a CLC error and an accident happens as a result.
Last edited by Dropline; 21st Oct 2009 at 07:27.
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On a practical level, it also takes me longer to send fuel figures to CLC