Trends in ground handling
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Trends in ground handling
Hi everyone,
I am trying to summarise the key challenges faced by the ground handling sector and wondered if either you would have document(s) to share or remarks to share.
Also, what results are expected from ground handlers and what are their major pain points.
Many thanks for your contribution(s).
I am trying to summarise the key challenges faced by the ground handling sector and wondered if either you would have document(s) to share or remarks to share.
Also, what results are expected from ground handlers and what are their major pain points.
Many thanks for your contribution(s).
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So many pain points .....
Airlines are offering passengers very cheap fares, just to get a bum on a seat, this is causing the airlines to cut their costs (so they can make a small profit) and tendering for ground handling at very reduced rates, this is causing the cost per turn to be greatly reduced from what it was only a few years ago.
The reduced turnaround rate is now causing strain on every handling agent to turn the aircraft and make any small profits to keep their business alive.
Some contacts its a very fine line for the ground handler to break even. The result is a very poor standard of handling i.e. no staff available to meet the inbound flight, as they cannot afford to hire any excess staff to allow for it.
The airlines are still expecting the ground handler to jump through hoops even through they are not even paying enough for a loop in the first place!
Airlines are offering passengers very cheap fares, just to get a bum on a seat, this is causing the airlines to cut their costs (so they can make a small profit) and tendering for ground handling at very reduced rates, this is causing the cost per turn to be greatly reduced from what it was only a few years ago.
The reduced turnaround rate is now causing strain on every handling agent to turn the aircraft and make any small profits to keep their business alive.
Some contacts its a very fine line for the ground handler to break even. The result is a very poor standard of handling i.e. no staff available to meet the inbound flight, as they cannot afford to hire any excess staff to allow for it.
The airlines are still expecting the ground handler to jump through hoops even through they are not even paying enough for a loop in the first place!
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It would appear that the worm is now starting to turn. The trend with both Servisair and Aviance now seems to be to push for increased charges to get to a level that makes the business viable. This has resulted in some changes in HA's around the country, and some new base openings for existing opens. The only one bucking the trend seems to be Swissport, they have gone from charging at least breakeven to going as low as it takes to keep/win the business.
If only they would all sing from the same hymn sheet the good staff would stay and service levels would improve
If only they would all sing from the same hymn sheet the good staff would stay and service levels would improve
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My main gripe with ground handling was the trend in reduced turnaround times.
Low-cost airlines want it both ways, minimum time on the ground and impressive on-time performance. And sadly it can't always be done.
YES, you can turn around a 737 in 25 minutes. IF everything goes to plan, but sometimes delays are un-avoidable. 25minutes is not long to offload a hundred bags and pax, and get them all on. Sometimes there are going to be complications that you just cannot avoid. More often than not, these factors that cause delays are often only very minor delays of 2 or 3 minutes, but as far as the airline is concerned its a good excuse to issue a penalty to the agents and keep their own costs down.
Part of the reason I left the handling side of aviation was because at times, some airlines were willing delays and demanding the impossible. All with the aim of catching us out so they can impose thier penalties.
RTG!
Low-cost airlines want it both ways, minimum time on the ground and impressive on-time performance. And sadly it can't always be done.
YES, you can turn around a 737 in 25 minutes. IF everything goes to plan, but sometimes delays are un-avoidable. 25minutes is not long to offload a hundred bags and pax, and get them all on. Sometimes there are going to be complications that you just cannot avoid. More often than not, these factors that cause delays are often only very minor delays of 2 or 3 minutes, but as far as the airline is concerned its a good excuse to issue a penalty to the agents and keep their own costs down.
Part of the reason I left the handling side of aviation was because at times, some airlines were willing delays and demanding the impossible. All with the aim of catching us out so they can impose thier penalties.
RTG!
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I would like to see the Analysis which makes a 25 Minute 737 Turnaround a standard!
If this is considered to be both the planned and minimum time, then even a short delay at the beginning of an operating day could propagate through the rest of that days flying.
If this is considered to be both the planned and minimum time, then even a short delay at the beginning of an operating day could propagate through the rest of that days flying.
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Good morning Mr Vine, maybe the unions should give them 1 more chance to talk and warn that the consequences of not talking are their members not working. It is bad enough having to put up with the poor working conditions without the company going back on a pay deal
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Opssys
It really isn't about any analysis as such and I don't know of any 'standard' of 25 minutes for the 737- it's a target; and at the most basic level it is simply about optimial aircraft utilisation.
The 25 minute turnaround on the B737 is achieveable most of the time at some airports, but not achievable all of the time at all airports. Smart airlines know that and schedule accordingly taking into account historial turnaround data at a given airport. What you don't see at the turnaround is the scheduled block time for a given sector which will often soak-up some of turnaround delays and provide the ops controllers with a bit of schedule recovery. But the point you make is valid- with unrealistic scheduling you can carry a morning delay to late in the evening if the line of flying has no buffers or you don't have an opportunity to swap the delay out by using another aircraft.
It really isn't about any analysis as such and I don't know of any 'standard' of 25 minutes for the 737- it's a target; and at the most basic level it is simply about optimial aircraft utilisation.
The 25 minute turnaround on the B737 is achieveable most of the time at some airports, but not achievable all of the time at all airports. Smart airlines know that and schedule accordingly taking into account historial turnaround data at a given airport. What you don't see at the turnaround is the scheduled block time for a given sector which will often soak-up some of turnaround delays and provide the ops controllers with a bit of schedule recovery. But the point you make is valid- with unrealistic scheduling you can carry a morning delay to late in the evening if the line of flying has no buffers or you don't have an opportunity to swap the delay out by using another aircraft.
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Wages are definitely the primary issue as far as safety goes.
Some of the dispatchers at a certain "Circus" are on as little as 13k and would not know how to do a manual loadsheet, know the bear minimum about DG, have the IQ of a mosquito and are generally useless.
You get what you pay for I guess..........
Some of the dispatchers at a certain "Circus" are on as little as 13k and would not know how to do a manual loadsheet, know the bear minimum about DG, have the IQ of a mosquito and are generally useless.
You get what you pay for I guess..........
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I'm not sure if its industry-wide, but last year when I finally decided a career change was needed, UK low-cost carriers were expecting a 25minute turnaround of a 737. Obviously they would schedule for more where they could, but if delays were building up, 25mins was all an agent had to turnaround a flight before the fines and penalties began. Then they began scheduling 25minute turnarounds in summer schedules.
(In fact, I had heard through the grapevine that this was one of the key reasons that Servisair at NCL pulled the plug on the easyjet contract. They simply couldn't provide the men and equipment to ensure a 25minute turnaround on what EZY were prepared to pay, and they weren't prepared to be fined heavily for not meeting the 25min deadline or leaving bags behind)
If what "ex cargo clown" is saying is true, and that you have poor dispatchers, and they are under time constraints of 25minutes, then I hate to say it, but safety will be compromised, and it will be compromised regular.
Poor wages, poor training by handling agents... poor contracts and high expectations by airlines... all adds up to what is wrong in the industry. In many ways I'm happy to be out of it
RTG!
(In fact, I had heard through the grapevine that this was one of the key reasons that Servisair at NCL pulled the plug on the easyjet contract. They simply couldn't provide the men and equipment to ensure a 25minute turnaround on what EZY were prepared to pay, and they weren't prepared to be fined heavily for not meeting the 25min deadline or leaving bags behind)
If what "ex cargo clown" is saying is true, and that you have poor dispatchers, and they are under time constraints of 25minutes, then I hate to say it, but safety will be compromised, and it will be compromised regular.
Poor wages, poor training by handling agents... poor contracts and high expectations by airlines... all adds up to what is wrong in the industry. In many ways I'm happy to be out of it
RTG!
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on domestic (inbound and outbound) its possible to achieve the 25min turnaround... sadly EZY have a habit of having such routes as "KRK-GVA" or a "FAO-ALC" and schedule them for 25mins... thats when it gets interesting, as in most cases u will have 3 man teams... by the time the steps and GPU are in thats down to 20mins (unless ofcourse theres problems with the GPU, which then means 1 guy is running around looking for a replacement, which wastes approx 5 mins) so that leaves around 10 minutes to get the bags off and then reload.. and the remaining 5 mins to get buggies, remove back steps, disconnect GPU and put tug on....
and ofcourse the possible offload of bags.. cant believe they make the handling firm accountable for any delays caused in offloading bags.. its not exactly a 2 minute job looking for 1 bag among 110 in a 737
if EZY increased their turnaround times to 30 minutes they'd run with far less delays... sure it might mean that the a/c will nightstop an hour later at night, but wouldnt that be better than missing a slot for a busy airport due to ground crews struggling?
i think the UK has the fastest easyJet turnaround time (25min) while most places in Europe/international will get 35mins+
and ofcourse the possible offload of bags.. cant believe they make the handling firm accountable for any delays caused in offloading bags.. its not exactly a 2 minute job looking for 1 bag among 110 in a 737
if EZY increased their turnaround times to 30 minutes they'd run with far less delays... sure it might mean that the a/c will nightstop an hour later at night, but wouldnt that be better than missing a slot for a busy airport due to ground crews struggling?
i think the UK has the fastest easyJet turnaround time (25min) while most places in Europe/international will get 35mins+
I'd suggest tigger has hit the nail on the end there ...
25 mins is achievable ... many years ago I was involved with B732's (that shows how long ago...
) that did regular 35 min turnarounds with 120 pax + bags + 1500 Kgs frt/mail off & on.
There is little margin for error or timewasting so you need a capable dispatcher and adequate numbers of groundcrew.
And in those days a computer failure up to STD - 7 mins was not expected to result in any departure delay. Data grabbed off the logging printer and a manual loadsheet completed/delivered so that doors closed of -3mins could still be achieved for an on time push.
That was the world I knew prior to "low cost".
Now ..... all costs are at minimums.
Many (not all) of today's dispatchers (sorry no insult intended but it's what I've seen myself) do not "drive" or "control" the turnaround.
They turn up (it seems) simply to record the delay reason, tear the loadsheet off the printer, walk it to the flight deck and hand it over.
That's driven by the cost control .. someone works out that using poorly trained/motivated staff results in one delay every XXX flights ... that's cost effective so it's done.
With the turnaround prices being paid (plus penalties to recoup some of that) you get only three ramp staff to unload/load and position all the kit.
It's not rocket science ... two sets of steps, enough trailers for the bags, belt loader(s) plus tug/bar and often a GPU 'cos the low costs don't want to use FEP's.
Cover all that lot with three staff and what sort of a work environment and likleyhood to succeed are you creating?
Oh dear .. that did rather turn into a min-rant didn't it .. sorry
25 mins is achievable ... many years ago I was involved with B732's (that shows how long ago...
) that did regular 35 min turnarounds with 120 pax + bags + 1500 Kgs frt/mail off & on.There is little margin for error or timewasting so you need a capable dispatcher and adequate numbers of groundcrew.
And in those days a computer failure up to STD - 7 mins was not expected to result in any departure delay. Data grabbed off the logging printer and a manual loadsheet completed/delivered so that doors closed of -3mins could still be achieved for an on time push.
That was the world I knew prior to "low cost".
Now ..... all costs are at minimums.
Many (not all) of today's dispatchers (sorry no insult intended but it's what I've seen myself) do not "drive" or "control" the turnaround.
They turn up (it seems) simply to record the delay reason, tear the loadsheet off the printer, walk it to the flight deck and hand it over.
That's driven by the cost control .. someone works out that using poorly trained/motivated staff results in one delay every XXX flights ... that's cost effective so it's done.
With the turnaround prices being paid (plus penalties to recoup some of that) you get only three ramp staff to unload/load and position all the kit.
It's not rocket science ... two sets of steps, enough trailers for the bags, belt loader(s) plus tug/bar and often a GPU 'cos the low costs don't want to use FEP's.
Cover all that lot with three staff and what sort of a work environment and likleyhood to succeed are you creating?
Oh dear .. that did rather turn into a min-rant didn't it .. sorry
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oh and add the fact that ACARS has actually killed off any form of understanding between dispatch, ramp and flight deck, and theres another "trend" in handling.
Before ACARS, Dispatch, Ramp and Flight Deck, (generally) worked for each other. The flight deck would often be happy to explain the +3minute delay as "Busy Ramp" or "long taxi to runway".
In return, when the Flight Deck needed a little extra time, Dispatch would cover them in the same way.
When a Passenger was a few minutes late, Dispatch might let them on because it would save the hassle of having the lads re-open a hold and root through all the bags. Because they knew they could "wing a few minutes" from a decent captain who understood the logic.
Now, ACARS tells everyone EXACTLY when the doors were shut. So everyone is fighting to pass the delay. I got to the stage where dispatchers were willing passengers to be late, because that extra 10mins allowed for finding the bag would be enough to let them finish what they were doing.
I've seen Ramp Agents called into offices over a a 5minute delay because they had an offload of 120 from Malaga, and an onload of 111 (+18 golf clubs) on a Faro, and line managers refusing to accept delays.
I've even seen Captains refuse LMC's on manual loadsheets for no other reason than to buy more time to cover their own inefficiencies.
ACARS has created a "them and us" mentality that just didnt exist when you dealt with older non-ACARS aircraft. Although saying that, on the day I left the industry, there were still some great "old school" crews out there, but they're a dying breed!
Rant over!
RTG!
Before ACARS, Dispatch, Ramp and Flight Deck, (generally) worked for each other. The flight deck would often be happy to explain the +3minute delay as "Busy Ramp" or "long taxi to runway".
In return, when the Flight Deck needed a little extra time, Dispatch would cover them in the same way.
When a Passenger was a few minutes late, Dispatch might let them on because it would save the hassle of having the lads re-open a hold and root through all the bags. Because they knew they could "wing a few minutes" from a decent captain who understood the logic.
Now, ACARS tells everyone EXACTLY when the doors were shut. So everyone is fighting to pass the delay. I got to the stage where dispatchers were willing passengers to be late, because that extra 10mins allowed for finding the bag would be enough to let them finish what they were doing.
I've seen Ramp Agents called into offices over a a 5minute delay because they had an offload of 120 from Malaga, and an onload of 111 (+18 golf clubs) on a Faro, and line managers refusing to accept delays.
I've even seen Captains refuse LMC's on manual loadsheets for no other reason than to buy more time to cover their own inefficiencies.
ACARS has created a "them and us" mentality that just didnt exist when you dealt with older non-ACARS aircraft. Although saying that, on the day I left the industry, there were still some great "old school" crews out there, but they're a dying breed!
Rant over!
RTG!
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I worked as a dispatcher on behalf of easyJet for almost three years and agree with all the above. One day the easyJet/ground handling 'management' came into our ops room with a list of each of the turnarounds we had performed in the past 2 weeks. They then wanted each of us to explain the reasons for the 1 and 2 minute delays that were not recorded, but had been picked up by ACARS.
In the end i was hoping the cabin crew would take as long as they wanted over their cleaning/seat pockets/security checks. As long as i had a corridor full of pax waiting, i felt i was doing my job.
I soon became a bit fed up with it all and only enjoyed the job when i was dispatching over at the cargo apron. I will never forget the day the easyJet base captain turned round to me and asked what the 30 SECOND delay will be.
I now work for the other low cost airline as flight crew - (non-ACARS aircraft). It seems to be a bit more laid back over this side!
MB
In the end i was hoping the cabin crew would take as long as they wanted over their cleaning/seat pockets/security checks. As long as i had a corridor full of pax waiting, i felt i was doing my job.
I soon became a bit fed up with it all and only enjoyed the job when i was dispatching over at the cargo apron. I will never forget the day the easyJet base captain turned round to me and asked what the 30 SECOND delay will be.
I now work for the other low cost airline as flight crew - (non-ACARS aircraft). It seems to be a bit more laid back over this side!
MB
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And in those days a computer failure up to STD - 7 mins was not expected to result in any departure delay. Data grabbed off the logging printer and a manual loadsheet completed/delivered so that doors closed of -3mins could still be achieved for an on time push.
But I agree with what you say. Often at my base a single dispatcher (no gate staff) is given a 733 to turn around. Up to 148 pax, 3 or 4 WCHS/C, buggies, preboards etc etc. How the hell am I meant to marshal the pax outside, tear boarding cards, enter boarding numbers, complete loadsheet/paperwork, liaise with check in/loading/ops/airport info and keep the crew happy. All whilst your next flight is on the final approach.
Certainly where I come from, the dispatcher doesn't just turn up and record the delay reason; without us the turnaround wouldn't happen at all.
Do I see myself as incapable? No. I have all the load control and dispatch training I need (its not difficult, lets not fool ourselves here), and have done the job for long enough. What makes things go tits up is the lack of staff, and this is directly related to the reduction in handling fees being paid to the companies. As soon as industry standard minimum pricing is agreed, things will improve (although price fixing is illegal remember). Until then airlines, especially LCCs, will continue to shaft the people that run their operation on the ground.
oh and add the fact that ACARS has actually killed off any form of understanding between dispatch, ramp and flight deck, and theres another "trend" in handling.
Similar things occur elsewhere; on check-in for example its nigh on impossible to use your discretion and sneak an extra bag down for a pax, if an extra tag is printed money has to be paid - its no longer about understanding and trust. Its a shame...
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Good morning Mr Vine, maybe the unions should give them 1 more chance to talk and warn that the consequences of not talking are their members not working. It is bad enough having to put up with the poor working conditions without the company going back on a pay deal
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BHXvine
The end is very close with that shower of **** called pissport they put too many eggs in one basket or should i say they cared to much about one airline flybe!!!. They had warnings from other airlines if the service didnt improve they would be off thats prob why you havent got your 2 year pay rise the muppetts oh well the gate is slowly creeping open
The end is very close with that shower of **** called pissport they put too many eggs in one basket or should i say they cared to much about one airline flybe!!!. They had warnings from other airlines if the service didnt improve they would be off thats prob why you havent got your 2 year pay rise the muppetts oh well the gate is slowly creeping open
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Bottom line is that if the price is right an airline will stay with a handling agent. Quality of service does not seem to matter, unless it becomes so bad that its unworkable or the handling agent goes bust. Flybe are getting a very naff service at the moment with no staff on stand to meet the aircraft so often its become the norm!
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Jorge,
"The dispatcher is a dying breed..."
In real terms the dispatcher should not be required if every service provider did their job effectively and efficiently and the aircraft are equipped with ACARS.
Back in the mid 90's SAS got rid of their 'standard' dispatchers in Scandinavia and contracted service providers to do their jobs and supervise themselves. they did have a 'hot squad' at their hubs to intervene if flights were off schedule.
In todays LC market, the dispatch role is defunct already. They are 'runners'; there is very little to coordinate on the turnround as the majority do not have TSU/WSU/Catering/Cleaning/Cargo; so its pax/bags/fuel and off we go. The Gh rarely do a full loadsheet, they do loading information for ACARS or the flight deck to complete their own loadsheets - all of which are very basic and very simple.
Question:
Is an Airbus 319/320 a better option for short turnrounds than a B736/7/8?
Airbus have wider aisles and the passengers seem to be able to pass one another more easily and there is not that huge rear hold per the Boeings.
Just a thought.
GH
"The dispatcher is a dying breed..."
In real terms the dispatcher should not be required if every service provider did their job effectively and efficiently and the aircraft are equipped with ACARS.
Back in the mid 90's SAS got rid of their 'standard' dispatchers in Scandinavia and contracted service providers to do their jobs and supervise themselves. they did have a 'hot squad' at their hubs to intervene if flights were off schedule.
In todays LC market, the dispatch role is defunct already. They are 'runners'; there is very little to coordinate on the turnround as the majority do not have TSU/WSU/Catering/Cleaning/Cargo; so its pax/bags/fuel and off we go. The Gh rarely do a full loadsheet, they do loading information for ACARS or the flight deck to complete their own loadsheets - all of which are very basic and very simple.
Question:
Is an Airbus 319/320 a better option for short turnrounds than a B736/7/8?
Airbus have wider aisles and the passengers seem to be able to pass one another more easily and there is not that huge rear hold per the Boeings.
Just a thought.
GH