More Swissport Redundancies??
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From what I hear union-mangement meeting did not go well. Management did not offer anything worthwhile and were not interested at all in honouring the year 2 deal. Swissport director ended up walking out o fthe meeting as he had no answers to trade union questions.
Swissport balloting for strike!
Swissport balloting for strike!
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so what help will striking do? all its going to do is give management a list for the redundancies that will no doubt happen this winter..
i dont think any pay rises in ground handling have happened this year, if i hear the strike word at my work, ill be leaving the union... id rather have a job than to highlight my name for redundancy come winter, over the sake of a couple of pence..
i dont think any pay rises in ground handling have happened this year, if i hear the strike word at my work, ill be leaving the union... id rather have a job than to highlight my name for redundancy come winter, over the sake of a couple of pence..
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In this current climate what is the point fighting for and extra few quid a month for the sake of crippling an already loss making company and putting yourself out of work? Granted, i dont agree with the way swissport go about negotiations but can anybody really expect a pay rise? Yes they agreed to it and now cant afford it. If you dont like it find another job. Its harsh but we are in a deep recession and airlines expect better service for less money all the time, just look what they did to Heathrow when the unions kept on with all the unrealistic demands and threats. Believe me im not by any means a supporter of swissport or any of its managment but i think all of us in an already suffering airline industry need to ride this out and be realistic.
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LGWSTAR
Im afraid I have to disagree with you. It is becauase of weak people like you that managment think they have the right to walk over everyone and do what they want. If everyone in the world had your mentality imagine what a bad state we would be in.
Im afraid I have to disagree with you. It is becauase of weak people like you that managment think they have the right to walk over everyone and do what they want. If everyone in the world had your mentality imagine what a bad state we would be in.
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LGWSTAR - Very wise words. I think there are a large number of people about who could benefit from listening to the likes of you. It amazes me the number of folk who fail to understand or realise the state the global economy is in at the moment and how this impacts on business.
I too have absolutely no interest in a pay rise if it means I get to keep a job - let's face it, there aren't many jobs out there.
I too have absolutely no interest in a pay rise if it means I get to keep a job - let's face it, there aren't many jobs out there.
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Legalize...
Im informed Swissport as well as other handling agents are losing money by the week. So how do you propose giving staff a pay rise? Im not being weak im being realistic in what is already a very volatile industry. With respect, its people like you who are causing this industry to suffer further by yours and the unions demands. How anybody can support strike action in the current climate is beyond me. Its time people woke up and realised we are in a recession and jobs are few and far between.
Im informed Swissport as well as other handling agents are losing money by the week. So how do you propose giving staff a pay rise? Im not being weak im being realistic in what is already a very volatile industry. With respect, its people like you who are causing this industry to suffer further by yours and the unions demands. How anybody can support strike action in the current climate is beyond me. Its time people woke up and realised we are in a recession and jobs are few and far between.
Last edited by LGWSTAR; 28th May 2009 at 19:35.
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It is now over 10 years since I dealt with any union issue. At the time I worked for a very large company and a union was forcing itself to be officially recognised. It was all new to me to so I did my research and found out the following which I shared with my colleagues.
1. Unions do not safeguard peoples jobs.....but many think they do.
2. Most unions make profit and much of this is then donated to political parties without consultation with its members. Many companies, most airlines and handling companies do not make profit right now. Surely a surplus in union funds should be given back to its members instead of donated to political parties you yourself may not vote for?
3. The subscriptions that are paid fund very attractive salaries for union reps that often include company cars (5 series BMW) and other perks.
4. Unions often provide or sell perks and insurances that an employer provides anyway if you take the time to look.
In short. Make up your own minds but do your own research and do not rely on word of mouth or peer pressure.
I am happy to say that 10 years on, the organisation in question is still non-unionised to this day based on the choice of the 2500+ employees.
Some of you need to wake up and see the real world. If it was my £2 a week I'd spend it on the lottery instead.
1. Unions do not safeguard peoples jobs.....but many think they do.
2. Most unions make profit and much of this is then donated to political parties without consultation with its members. Many companies, most airlines and handling companies do not make profit right now. Surely a surplus in union funds should be given back to its members instead of donated to political parties you yourself may not vote for?
3. The subscriptions that are paid fund very attractive salaries for union reps that often include company cars (5 series BMW) and other perks.
4. Unions often provide or sell perks and insurances that an employer provides anyway if you take the time to look.
In short. Make up your own minds but do your own research and do not rely on word of mouth or peer pressure.
I am happy to say that 10 years on, the organisation in question is still non-unionised to this day based on the choice of the 2500+ employees.
Some of you need to wake up and see the real world. If it was my £2 a week I'd spend it on the lottery instead.
Last edited by greuzi; 28th May 2009 at 20:42.
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only reason i joined the union was the insurance cover incase i get injured or worse, theres some form of protection for my family.. dont give a toss about pay rises, if you get one fair enough, if you dont then oh well, least you still have a job
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You all deserve what you get.....The ignorant amongst you keep going on about the Union like it's a separate entity.....The members are the Union. If the members don't want to take industrial action then it won't happen.
greuzi..Maybe you should have done some proper research and even updated it. If you have a beef with National Union officers fine. However there are a lot of decent hard working reps on the ground. There biggest problem is dealing with people like you who talk a load of bollocks and think that Union bashing is the thing to do....It's so old fashioned and out of touch. As you admit at least ten years out of touch........
greuzi..Maybe you should have done some proper research and even updated it. If you have a beef with National Union officers fine. However there are a lot of decent hard working reps on the ground. There biggest problem is dealing with people like you who talk a load of bollocks and think that Union bashing is the thing to do....It's so old fashioned and out of touch. As you admit at least ten years out of touch........
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Call 100
Please save me the time and identify which of the 4 points I mentioned is incorrect?
Alternatively you might want to confirm they are all accurate, current and not 10 years out of date at all
Please save me the time and identify which of the 4 points I mentioned is incorrect?
Alternatively you might want to confirm they are all accurate, current and not 10 years out of date at all
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Donations to Political parties are only payable from the Political fund that members can opt out of.
The Unions don't 'Sell' any perks that an employer provides. Like any large organisation it gains discounts from the likes of insurance companies etc that it offers to members.
Finally the salary question. The answer is of course that the full time officials are paid the wage commensurate with their level of responsibility. Just as any other large organisation. For regional reps a car is essential. They can be responsible for up to 200 companies. (Vauxhall Vectra as a matter of interest)
Your points were not borne of research they are just generalities. We could all put down such generalities aimed at the MD's and boards of most large companies. The problem is that in doing that it undermines all the hard work done on the ground by everyone else.
I've never seen, for instance, an MD who was worth the money they are paid.
So by that token I also don't think that the National Union Leaders are worth the money they are paid. Thankfully though, most of the work is done by hard working regional full time officials and the shop stewards on the ground. This is the reality of the TU not your Daily Mail observations.
A work force will always be better off in a union than out of it. No strike can be ordered, it must be voted for secretly and scrutinised independently.
As I said your views are way out of date. Don't take Woodly and Simpson shouting on the TV to be the Union.......Look at the local work...
I don't suppose I ever will change your views just as you will have no effect on mine. It would be a bad world if we all thought exactly alike.
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Call 100
Callq100
Well said mate. I agree 100% with you comments. Unfortunateley our industry is not in a bad situation because of the credit crunch, it is in a bad way because of the 'scabs' that work with us who are happy to accept the pay rises and other benefits the unions win for us but refuse to pay the fees and join the union to make the workforce stronger.
Well said mate. I agree 100% with you comments. Unfortunateley our industry is not in a bad situation because of the credit crunch, it is in a bad way because of the 'scabs' that work with us who are happy to accept the pay rises and other benefits the unions win for us but refuse to pay the fees and join the union to make the workforce stronger.
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Absolutely bang on legalize. I am sick to death of non union workers benefiting from my hard earned union dues and reaping the rewards of OUR collective bargaining! There are too many weak minded individuals that just roll over at the first sign of things getting tough. Oh well... at least THEY still have a job... nevermind that they are being raped by their management... at least they still have a job! If everyone joined forces and stood together then and ONLY then can positive change happen. The union is not some all knowing all being entity... it is the members and nothing more. It is not in the members best interest to cripple their employers to the point of ceasing trading. It is however only fair that management should play fair and be honest with the unions and also it is only right that all agreements should be honoured. If Swissport management failed to see that the indicators for recession were not plaina s day then they should get the sack for gross incompetence. If the company is now not in a position to pay out on an already agreed deal then they should come to some sort of compromise. For management to just get up and walk out of a meeting because they had nothing further to say smacks of arrogance.
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All,
There is a middle ground in everything. I have no doubt there are people in the various unions that are there for the right reasons doing a good job day in day out. For me, the biggest single problem is that the outlook is often towards confrontation and not cooperation. That is a fundamental flaw and you do concede there are concerns that even you have about the top of these organisations.
It is also not clever to use the argument that my views are outdated, yet use the word 'scabs' when referring to non-union members. If things have moved on, that is definitely not a way to show it.
In the end it is a matter of choice. As I said earlier the organisation I was involved with on union issues remains non-unionised. What really annoyed me at the time was that there was lots of peer pressure involved and the union overstated its benefits and capabilities to the audience. That may have changed today and I am prepared to take your word for it.
I do still think non-unionised workforces can secure good conditions and salaries, and maybe without starting staring steely eyed across a table can secure a better deal for all. You are much more likely to secure a good result with free and open dialogue without a background of bitterness, resentment and mistrust are you not?
For those organisations where there is no alternative, then of course the unions have their place. It just brings with it payrises effected by argument over a number of weeks about fractions of decimal places that might, in the end, let a family take the granparents out for Sunday lunch once a month. It turns negotiations into a game that often gets personal, and whoever feels they 'lost' last year wants to win the game this year. All a bit sad really as there are families out there dependant upon that circus to secure a good deal for them. I personally don't side with employer or union. I just see the system can often become a fiasco.
The Honda story is a good example of common sense prevailing. Honda would not want to lose such a modern and productive plant with cheap labour compared with the rest of Europe. The consequences for the government of paying unempoyment benefit for all those people would be a big incentive for the union bosses to have shared a few phone calls. For the people involved (beyond the 1'300 that took redundancy) a good solution was a pay cut. Everybody played their part but please don't be so naive to suggest this solution was hatched by the union. Honda, the employees and the government made it happen with union in support. Please don't forget though that this keeps 500 in employment more than is required. It is a good plan if the recession is temporary as it locks in all that skillbase for better times ahead. If the thing drags on however, the place is very overstaffed.
There is a middle ground in everything. I have no doubt there are people in the various unions that are there for the right reasons doing a good job day in day out. For me, the biggest single problem is that the outlook is often towards confrontation and not cooperation. That is a fundamental flaw and you do concede there are concerns that even you have about the top of these organisations.
It is also not clever to use the argument that my views are outdated, yet use the word 'scabs' when referring to non-union members. If things have moved on, that is definitely not a way to show it.
In the end it is a matter of choice. As I said earlier the organisation I was involved with on union issues remains non-unionised. What really annoyed me at the time was that there was lots of peer pressure involved and the union overstated its benefits and capabilities to the audience. That may have changed today and I am prepared to take your word for it.
I do still think non-unionised workforces can secure good conditions and salaries, and maybe without starting staring steely eyed across a table can secure a better deal for all. You are much more likely to secure a good result with free and open dialogue without a background of bitterness, resentment and mistrust are you not?
For those organisations where there is no alternative, then of course the unions have their place. It just brings with it payrises effected by argument over a number of weeks about fractions of decimal places that might, in the end, let a family take the granparents out for Sunday lunch once a month. It turns negotiations into a game that often gets personal, and whoever feels they 'lost' last year wants to win the game this year. All a bit sad really as there are families out there dependant upon that circus to secure a good deal for them. I personally don't side with employer or union. I just see the system can often become a fiasco.
The Honda story is a good example of common sense prevailing. Honda would not want to lose such a modern and productive plant with cheap labour compared with the rest of Europe. The consequences for the government of paying unempoyment benefit for all those people would be a big incentive for the union bosses to have shared a few phone calls. For the people involved (beyond the 1'300 that took redundancy) a good solution was a pay cut. Everybody played their part but please don't be so naive to suggest this solution was hatched by the union. Honda, the employees and the government made it happen with union in support. Please don't forget though that this keeps 500 in employment more than is required. It is a good plan if the recession is temporary as it locks in all that skillbase for better times ahead. If the thing drags on however, the place is very overstaffed.
Last edited by greuzi; 1st Jun 2009 at 06:48.
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greuzi
Firstly...Calling someone who disagrees with the general views of the Union members a 'Scab' is not something I do.
Very few negotiations are carried out in the way you describe. That is definitely old hat. On the rare occasions it does occur both sides are to blame for the situation. In a modern world you cannot rely on the strike to force a way forward. Therefore looking 'steely eyed' across a table would not result in anything but stalemate...That is true from both sides of the table.
No responsible Union would advise their members to strike over fractions. Usually a pay rise comes with other strings that are not publicised making it look like a petty argument. I find that the publicity of industrial conflict rarely reflect the real situation.
The Honda plant situation was, in fact, borne out of talks around a table between Unions and Management. The possibility of the plan was first muted by the TU. The job of the TU is to safeguard jobs in those situations. They have done a good job there. Remember as far as redundancy goes, the TU always fights for Voluntary redundancies and a good package to ensure enough volunteers. Many are happy to go.
There are many small engineering firms, in the Midlands particularly, that are still up and running because of deals brokered by the TU on behalf of members to keep jobs going. Some with pay cuts, some with short time working, some with other conditions. At none of these was there a gung ho charge by the TU to prove a point. Priority was to save the companies and save the jobs only cooperation achieved this.
One of the main dangers of course is member apathy. This usually leads to the TU having not much choice but to listen to those who are being vocal. This may not be what the majority want. Hence the rules around strike ballots. No TU would want to administer a strike action and then not have anyone take action. That would be counter productive.
Win Win is the buzz word for negotiations and is usually the outcome in the majority of cases.
It's a pity all the successful bargaining/troubleshooting negotiations don't get the publicity they deserve.
Oh well, onward and upward and a big cheer for the middle ground....
Nice chatting.
Firstly...Calling someone who disagrees with the general views of the Union members a 'Scab' is not something I do.
Very few negotiations are carried out in the way you describe. That is definitely old hat. On the rare occasions it does occur both sides are to blame for the situation. In a modern world you cannot rely on the strike to force a way forward. Therefore looking 'steely eyed' across a table would not result in anything but stalemate...That is true from both sides of the table.
No responsible Union would advise their members to strike over fractions. Usually a pay rise comes with other strings that are not publicised making it look like a petty argument. I find that the publicity of industrial conflict rarely reflect the real situation.
The Honda plant situation was, in fact, borne out of talks around a table between Unions and Management. The possibility of the plan was first muted by the TU. The job of the TU is to safeguard jobs in those situations. They have done a good job there. Remember as far as redundancy goes, the TU always fights for Voluntary redundancies and a good package to ensure enough volunteers. Many are happy to go.
There are many small engineering firms, in the Midlands particularly, that are still up and running because of deals brokered by the TU on behalf of members to keep jobs going. Some with pay cuts, some with short time working, some with other conditions. At none of these was there a gung ho charge by the TU to prove a point. Priority was to save the companies and save the jobs only cooperation achieved this.
One of the main dangers of course is member apathy. This usually leads to the TU having not much choice but to listen to those who are being vocal. This may not be what the majority want. Hence the rules around strike ballots. No TU would want to administer a strike action and then not have anyone take action. That would be counter productive.
Win Win is the buzz word for negotiations and is usually the outcome in the majority of cases.
It's a pity all the successful bargaining/troubleshooting negotiations don't get the publicity they deserve.
Oh well, onward and upward and a big cheer for the middle ground....
Nice chatting.
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More Swissport Redundancies
i particularly agree with TrashHauler's point about 'collective bargaining' . . Unionisation is NOT (despite what terrified Management and paranoid 'customer' airlines will have you think) about workers trying to get out of more and more work for more and more money . .its about recognising that some tasks need to be altered, some responsibilities expanded or changed and that pecuniary advantage in reward for that MUST be made. Scratching of mutual backs is absolutley the cornerstone of good industrial relations and all companies need to be talking BETWEEN each other to prevent abuse of staff (ie 'if you dont do it then XYZ will do for half the money . .and be GLAD of a job!') . . . staff being made to do more and more for less is fundamentally damaging to the industry. Good and eager staff are the only vital resource this industry has . . to have staff that actually give a damn is even better, all companies would do well not to discourage them.
T-M-D
T-M-D