No show pax bag offload regs
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No show pax bag offload regs
Guys, I have been asked to find out where the `rule` is written that no show pax bags have to be offloaded. Any takers? Ta.
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No show pax...
Depends who you work for and how the rules are written within your own company manual. My company specifies that pax who no show at the gate at STD minus 10 minutes are denied travel, this also includes special assistance pax who have'nt been delivered to the A/C or gate in time.
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Your airline should have it's own Aviation Security Programme in which will be defined your security principles and procedures. But, the basis of this is the UK's National Aviation Security Programme, usually know as NASP and also the Aviation Security Act 1982 and a few others. The airline's responsibilty to ensure the safety of its passengers are defined in these documents- and you will find the answer to your question in the above.
However, the reason bags MUST be off loaded for a no-show passenger is blindingly obvious given the security threats aviation faces; but with respect to the specific rules covering this- you'll also discover that there is a specifically defined procedure covering the carraige of unaccompanied baggage which would have to met before a bag can be loaded and travel without the passenger being on board. This requirement alone, would lead to an offload of the bags of a no-show. Usually, additional screening, x-ray and or hand searchs are required for an unaccompanied bag and they must be manifested as such.
The bottom line is that the bags of a no-show passenger must always be offloaded before departure- no exceptions- ever!
However, the reason bags MUST be off loaded for a no-show passenger is blindingly obvious given the security threats aviation faces; but with respect to the specific rules covering this- you'll also discover that there is a specifically defined procedure covering the carraige of unaccompanied baggage which would have to met before a bag can be loaded and travel without the passenger being on board. This requirement alone, would lead to an offload of the bags of a no-show. Usually, additional screening, x-ray and or hand searchs are required for an unaccompanied bag and they must be manifested as such.
The bottom line is that the bags of a no-show passenger must always be offloaded before departure- no exceptions- ever!
Last edited by no sig; 10th Oct 2008 at 18:11.
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The bottom line is that the bags of a no-show passenger must always be offloaded before departure- no exceptions- ever!
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Thanks for the input chaps. I am somewhere non standard, with a security structure of sorts. Just after that snippet of info to tie up a few quality management issues. I know the rule, but need something to wave under peoples noses............
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rollandpull
You might also dig into the ICAO standards and protocols on Aviation Security if you're not UK based and still need something to use. Do a search on ICAO AVSEC and you'll find a bunch of stuff that might be useful.
You might also dig into the ICAO standards and protocols on Aviation Security if you're not UK based and still need something to use. Do a search on ICAO AVSEC and you'll find a bunch of stuff that might be useful.
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yeah we start offloading pax at -10, and pass bag tag numbers at -10, then its the captains decision to offload. however with servisair we have to offload bags for no show pax because bags cannot travel unnatebded unless they are rush bags and been proply screened. im sure this is the case for most airlines though aswell
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Each airline has their own policies regarding the time you start looking for any no-show bags. For instance each airline has their own Gate Closure before departure time and it as that point they expect you to start looking for the bags.
It could be a -15 and usually it isn't practical to do so as you haven't received clearence in some lo-cost airlines.
If you are UK based then all you need is the information on "Triple A" and that is more than what you require on process of unnacompanied luggage traveling by Air.
It is not correct that the Captain has the final say as they sometimes decide to wait for passengers. It is the Appointed Person/Dispatcher role to ensure the Safety of Passengers and an on-time departure. As soon as luggage is located and brought off the aircraft then all paperwork should be finalized and passengers should be offloaded.
It could be a -15 and usually it isn't practical to do so as you haven't received clearence in some lo-cost airlines.
If you are UK based then all you need is the information on "Triple A" and that is more than what you require on process of unnacompanied luggage traveling by Air.
It is not correct that the Captain has the final say as they sometimes decide to wait for passengers. It is the Appointed Person/Dispatcher role to ensure the Safety of Passengers and an on-time departure. As soon as luggage is located and brought off the aircraft then all paperwork should be finalized and passengers should be offloaded.
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Mathers, I think you'll find the Capt does have the final say.
I can offload the bags if I feel I have good reason ie. no shows,
or I can wait, if I feel there is good reason to, ie. info that pax are stuck at security or waiting for special assistance.
An on time departure slips down the list of priority if there are other issues
over pax or technical , despite the dispatchers desire for an on time departure.
I can offload the bags if I feel I have good reason ie. no shows,
or I can wait, if I feel there is good reason to, ie. info that pax are stuck at security or waiting for special assistance.
An on time departure slips down the list of priority if there are other issues
over pax or technical , despite the dispatchers desire for an on time departure.
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I think we're straying off at two different angles here. To summarise:
The decision as to whether pax are to be accepted and when they are to be offloaded varies by airline/handler. This is a commercial decision.
The decision as to whether hold baggage is accepted for travel will vary by country. In the UK this responsibility lies with the Appointed Person (most commonly the dispatcher). This is a requirement of the NASP.
The decision as to whether pax are to be accepted and when they are to be offloaded varies by airline/handler. This is a commercial decision.
The decision as to whether hold baggage is accepted for travel will vary by country. In the UK this responsibility lies with the Appointed Person (most commonly the dispatcher). This is a requirement of the NASP.
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No Shows
In UK if you adhere to the clauses of Triple A (AAA) as laid down by the Regulatory Authorities, it's very plain.
You're the "Appointed Person" responsible and your signature on the release.
Take care.
You're the "Appointed Person" responsible and your signature on the release.
Take care.
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Possibly being thick but if there is any issue that a bag on board is a danger to flight safety why was it loaded in the first place? My understanding is that all hold baggage is screened to a DFT standard and the fact that the owner isn't on board is in itself not a safety risk.
The lesson learned in the USA as the chap above aludes to, is that the TSA screens all hold baggage and it is therefore safe to send it ahead of me if I miss my connection.
The lesson learned in the USA as the chap above aludes to, is that the TSA screens all hold baggage and it is therefore safe to send it ahead of me if I miss my connection.
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Hold baggage screening is not 100% effective, therefore baggage must be offloaded if the owner is no-show at the gate as it has a perceived increased risk. The AAA code of practice was written some time ago, when suicide bombing wasn't as popular as it is today.
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captain does not have final say!!
captain does not have the final word re offloads!! dispatcher controls the flight until you "present the paperwork" - the responsibility is entirely with the ground crew and the capt has no input unless a delay is likely.....his aircraft "his office" our terminal!!! he might have a say on what goes on his aircraft but we have the control on who leaves our building lol!!!
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Offloading bags
IMHO offloading bags is a must if pax dont show to the gate. Ive seen the wrong bags be offloaded and also aircraft return to ramp due to luggage. Regarding the expedite baggage a NOTOC must be issued to the PIC who as I understand can refuse to carry the bag in the hold for any reason but havent seen a skipper do it yet.
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If baggage must be offloaded for 'no shows' how does baggage left behind get transported. I only ask because my wife and I managed to get to Australia without our bags ( 7 days for for mine and 10 for hers!!). Then on the way back 3 and 4 days to get it home after us.
It had not been opened (seals in place) so how did they know it was OK?
Should add - this was good old BA weeks before T5 opened.
It had not been opened (seals in place) so how did they know it was OK?
Should add - this was good old BA weeks before T5 opened.
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A notoc is not required for Expedite Baggage, all is required is an unaccompanied baggage manifest which has the signature of the Security Operative which has completed the extensive screening process to allow the luggage to travel.
There are 5 screening methods available for expedite baggage but some airports only have 3 methods.
In smaller airports such as Cardiff they screen the expedite baggage on 2 separate angles.
A copy of the unaccompanied baggage manifest has to remain on station for 7 days along with the Triple A, Bag Tag Manifest, Crew Bag Manifest and Unaccompanied Mail Manifest.
A separate copy must be handed to the flight deck and must be commented on the Loadsheet.
It is a simple rule that no bag can travel without its owner unless it has gone through extensive screening, it was brought in by DFT (UK) after lockerbie bombing. What you have to bear in mind is that a passenger may have not turned up to the gate and had a bag checked in with malicious intent. It is better to prevent than to take the risk.
There are 5 screening methods available for expedite baggage but some airports only have 3 methods.
In smaller airports such as Cardiff they screen the expedite baggage on 2 separate angles.
A copy of the unaccompanied baggage manifest has to remain on station for 7 days along with the Triple A, Bag Tag Manifest, Crew Bag Manifest and Unaccompanied Mail Manifest.
A separate copy must be handed to the flight deck and must be commented on the Loadsheet.
It is a simple rule that no bag can travel without its owner unless it has gone through extensive screening, it was brought in by DFT (UK) after lockerbie bombing. What you have to bear in mind is that a passenger may have not turned up to the gate and had a bag checked in with malicious intent. It is better to prevent than to take the risk.
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Yeah I get that I just don't get why screening it before it gets on the plane isn't more reliable. A jihadi is quite happy to die onboard so I am concerned to say the least that the bag isn't screened to a standard where it no longer causes concern. What's the big deal stealing all the water from us at security if the hold luggage isn't confidently screened? The US are security paranoid and they allow unaccompanied bags to travel. Lockerbie was 20 years ago, one assumes technology has moved on.
