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-   -   Ethiopean 787 fire at Heathrow (https://www.pprune.org/engineers-technicians/518971-ethiopean-787-fire-heathrow.html)

DaveReidUK 11th October 2013 15:20


then fly it back somewhere warm and dry where they can chop the burnt section out and attach a new one
Or, if all else fails, remove the manufacturer's identification plate and attach a new airframe to it ...

denachtenmai 11th October 2013 15:27


which they know how to do as it's part of the manufacturing process.
I think that one far eastern airline would challenge that, and that a/c was not made of exotics:(

Interested Passenger 11th October 2013 15:45

If they patch it up and fly it somewhere for a proper repair, will they take off over central London, or M25/ Windsor Castle?

They can always close the M25 and make sure the Queens not at home, and then insist on a westerly departure

just to be safe

A and C 11th October 2013 19:43

Full wings
 
Have you ever done a composite repair on an aircraft primary structure ? I won't dispute the economic part of your post but on the technical issues you fall well short of the mark.

tdracer 11th October 2013 20:29


I think that one far eastern airline would challenge that, and that a/c was not made of exoticshttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/sowee.gif
Assuming you're speaking of the JAL 747, the repair was designed correctly - the problem was it wasn't implemented properly.

Una Due Tfc 11th October 2013 20:43

Or they are speaking of the China Airlines again a case of AMM not being followed

FullWings 11th October 2013 20:43


Have you ever done a composite repair on an aircraft primary structure ? I won't dispute the economic part of your post but on the technical issues you fall well short of the mark.
I've owned/operated composite aircraft for the last 30+ years and observed the manufacturing, repairing (and breaking!) of them over that period. What don't you agree with in what I said?

phiggsbroadband 11th October 2013 21:05

Would it not fit in a Beluga (or Antanov.) ?

DaveReidUK 11th October 2013 21:45

That's not going to happen.

A and C 12th October 2013 06:07

Full wings
 
I don't think that Boeing are using an autoclave as you say, I think that the big oven is just that....... A big oven, it does not use the very high pressures that are required for autoclaving. Having looked at it on u tube the structure of the oven appers by the nature of the structure to be incapable of very high pressures.

Boeing have been in the aircraft business long enough to know that aircraft will get damaged in service and simply would not manufacture an aircraft not able to withstand the rough and tumble of airline service. So it follows that they have already given field repair of the structure a very good thinking about. So if you can't put the whole aircraft in a big pressure cooker then you will have to use a resin system that cures at room temperature and then post cure it at a temperature IRO 80c. Some pressure can be applied with vacuum bags and there are a number of ways to get the heat applied in a controlled way.

A well executed scarf repair can achive a strength as near to 100% of the new item as makes no practical diference with a very small increase in weight.

There is no doubt that the size of this repair makes in more challenging than most but it is technically possible just so long as it is left to the composite experts and those with a metal aircraft background don't try to influence the process with metal repair techniques.

The economics and politics are another matter that may well scupper the repair but from a technical point of view a field repair is possible

wild goose 12th October 2013 10:05

A and C

Possible, good sir.
Posing is something charlatans enjoy.

denachtenmai 12th October 2013 10:42


Assuming you're speaking of the JAL 747, the repair was designed correctly - the problem was it wasn't implemented properly.
Exactly, wasn't the repair done by Boeing technicians?

peter we 12th October 2013 15:43

I thought (reading elsewhere) they were going to build a temporary building structure and bring in a complete new tail section to replace the existing one?

DaveReidUK 12th October 2013 17:06


I thought (reading elsewhere) they were going to build a temporary building structure and bring in a complete new tail section to replace the existing one?
Spot the problem with that suggestion:

http://www.boeingblogs.com/randy/ima...213-2final.jpg

DozyWannabe 12th October 2013 17:40

@DaveReidUK:

It seems they can do it with a 747 vertical stab, which is much larger and more unwieldy:

Originally Posted by SMOC (Post 8067277)


DaveReidUK 12th October 2013 18:01


It seems they can do it with a 747 vertical stab, which is much larger and more unwieldy
Yes, you can get away with pretty well anything with an aircraft that isn't intended to fly again. :O

tdracer 12th October 2013 20:52


Yes, you can get away with pretty well anything with an aircraft that isn't intended to fly again. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...s/embarass.gif
Removing the vertical stab is a pretty routine procedure for allowing airplanes to into hangers that otherwise would have inadequate clearance - and those airplanes nearly always fly again (the one exception I can think of was when the hanger burned - along with the airplane).

I'd think the bigger challenge would be moving and aligning that big tail barrel section without the dedicated tooling (as I noted earlier).

DaveReidUK 12th October 2013 21:03


Removing the vertical stab is a pretty routine procedure for allowing airplanes to into hangers that otherwise would have inadequate clearance
Well I've never encountered that, but I'll take your word for it.


I'd think the bigger challenge would be moving and aligning that big tail barrel section without the dedicated tooling (as I noted earlier).
I'd say that's a understatement.

I may be wrong, but I don't think we'll be seeing any tents and cranes at Heathrow any time soon.

DHC4 12th October 2013 21:53

First ever post on here, not sure why I can't quote TDracer. Removing a Vert Stab to fit it into a hangar, I have never heard of removing a stab of any sort just to get it into a hangar and as for being a routine procedure, do you remove the stab out doors and then bring it in.

Just for clarification, I am not talking about puddle jumpers.

golfyankeesierra 12th October 2013 21:56


It seems they can do it with a 747 vertical stab, which is much larger and more unwieldy:
Yes but on this plane they removed wings and tail to put it on a barch from Schiphol to the Lelystad museum. It was not ment to fly again....


Removing the vertical stab is a pretty routine procedure for allowing airplanes to into hangers that otherwise would have inadequate clearance
In Everett probably anything is routine but I understand you need a special bay and tooling to pull a trick like that.
Never heard of a stab routinely removed, except in case of damage but certainly not to save some hangar space..


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