Aerospace Engineering
 

I currently 19 years old with a fascination for engineering and flight, and so I am going in for the course mentioned above.

I've applied to Liverpool, Brunel, Bath, Sheffield and Manchester.

Does anyone have any experiences of these Unis and the courses they offer?

Further from that, what kind of employment prospects are there for post grads?
I was particularly interested in working for NATS as a direct entry graduate, but ideally I would love to work for BAE in some kind of research and Development.

Am I naive or just like everyone else with a passion for engineering?


Thanks folks,


Dave

hi Dave,

i have just graduated from Kingston University in Aircraft Engineering albeit I am considerably older than you. In fact I have been in full time employment 3 years longer than you've been alive!

However, if you are looking for a good University with an excellent reputation in the industry and location etc then Kingston is definitely worth a look.

The engineering faculty is extremely well staffed and and like I say its location just a few miles from Heathrow make it ideal for attracting some very good contacts in the industry.

Take a look! at www.kingston.ac.uk

Cheers m'dear, JJ

I dont think you are dreaming with regards working for BAE, I used to work for them they are an excellent company. I had an apprenticeship with them which I suggest is your best option you can get paid for learning. If you are succesfull they will put you on an engineering course that they feel would suit you, Wharton is probably your closest site.

Just a bit of advice but whatever you choose I wish you luck

A trivial point of terminology: "postgrad" = somebody doing a second degree, "graduate" = somebody with a degree.

Anyhow, employment opportunities seem to be very good at the moment, and I doubt you'll regret doing a degree at any of those universities.

But (there's always a but) don't for a moment think that the degree itself makes you all that employable, or that getting your first job (with NATS, BAE(S) or any of the miriad of other players). It is an essential for many aero-eng jobs (certainly most of the jobs that I've done), but it is your experience and abilities that'll really make you employable.

So, pick whichever of those universities suits you - there isn't a bad one on your list (although each arguably has its specialisms - for example at Brunel the Aerospace degree is more mecheng for people who want to work in the aerospace industry, and if you really want to do aerospace engineering there you'd be better off on their Aviation degree), but en-route get as much real knowledge, experience and contacts as possible - that is what will get you the job you really want at the end.

I would suggest looking at the places themselves (and which are most likely to suit you as a place to live for 4 years) as well as the specialist subjects taught in the later years - see what is most likely to suit your own lifestyle and career aspirations.

G

Dave

not having taken the Uni route myself, this advice is from other friends I have in the business.

You don't always need to have a degree in aeronautical engineering specifically, if you line up in an interview with a solid engineering degree and a wholehearted passion for aviation you have just as much if not more chance often. If not more, as your opponent can tell them the aerodynamic properties of a sycamore leaf, but not how many rotors a RR Trent 900 engine has, as installed on the A380....

To give yourself a wider chance perhaps a good mechanical engineering degree from places like Bath or Imperial College London may be an alternative. And then continue enjoying aviation as a hobby until you have to make it your chosen day-job.

Basically don't get bogged down too early. Hope that makes sense.

Brgd's

N1 Vibes

Oh, and good luck!

Hi ya Flame,

Doesnt sound like your friend has much staying power. One term is hardly long enough to judge a whole Uni and it doesnt sound like they did an awful lot of the research you sensibly suggest. personally I was a part time student who didnt have to live there but having been brought up in the area I have a reasonable grasp of what it has to offer.

i guess it depends what it is you want from your years spent at Uni. If you want it easy and not too stressful then I would suggest a sociology course...lol! Most of your study can justifiably be done in the pub! If you want a decent grounding in engineering then you have to be prepared to work for it. Maybe sponsorship by your employer would be a better way to approach it giving you the experience and the education in one handy package. Thats what alot of the guys on our course were doing, but success depends on your motivation levels.

Cheers m'dear, JJ

I think that it's telling that Flame's friend did a Foundations of Engineering course.

These are there for people who haven't got sufficient Maths and Physics grades at A-level, or who did the wrong A-levels (or lack some equivalent). Frankly, I don't think that many universities run them very well - huge class sizes, limited tutor support, a great deal of self reliance required.

To be honest, the best place to learn maths and physics is at school in an A-level class, or at a technical college on some form of post GCSE engineering related course - not in classes of 150 (I'm not kidding!) in a university whose real teaching talent really starts at the first year of undergraduate, not a year earlier in FoE.

That said, anybody who can survive FoE with good enough grades to enter a degree probably has a good future!

So, I'd take that post as more a (probably justifiable) condemnation of FoE courses in general, than of Kingston University, or or studying undergraduate Aero Eng. (Even Aero-Eng proper is fairly soul-destroying in the first year with huge amounts of maths, structures, basic fluid mechanics and so-on, but it gets a heck of a lot better after that.)

G

Ghengis,

You're probably right about the content and support given on foundation courses and I'm not really qualified to comment on that as I've never done one. My Honours degree was done on the back of 20 odd years experience in the RAF so more the University of Life rather than an actual academic institute.

Assuming that the guy has the basic qualifications then he will enjoy the better support on the under grad course which I know is good at kingston.

Interestingly more than half our course got firsts and 2:1 and we were juggling full time employment and families but were generally older so potentially had a little more expperience in striking the balance. Also we weren't as easily distracted by the "extra curricular" activities being old and surprisingly less attractive to the rest of the population although it wasn't for want of trying...LOL!

JJ

I'm sure there's a self-dependent work ethic that isn't necessarily instilled in school (which tends to be quite organised on behalf of the students, rather than by them) that a decent amount of working experience helps with a lot.

I did my first degree after a short apprenticeship, and must admit to enjoying many of the distractions available when in your early 20s! This probably explains my 2:2.

After a few (!) years doing real jobs in the aircraft industry (probably on the same aeroplanes you were on) however, I decided to spend a chunk of my spare time doing a Doctorate. In many ways I found that I had a much better understanding and work ethic behind what I was doing than I had as an undergrad. So, although it took a lot longer, and certainly had its frustrations, I found a PhD in my 30s, much easier than a BEng in my early 20s.

G

I graduated in summer 2005 with a BEng in Avionics. It was a 4 year course at Glasgow University. I moved down to the south east just after my graduation and I've had a great time so far. I've been lucky enough to have worked in Paris on several occasions and I've had to work closely with the customer, solving interesting problems and working on a great product.

I got an 8 week work placement down in Birmingham during the summer after my 2nd year at university which was hugely beneficial, so I would highly recommend going out and getting some extra experience in your spare time.

The degree was hard work ( I got a 2:2), but my enthusiasm for aircraft and the previous work experience helped convince the company I would fit in with their culture.

I hope you follow this career path, because there's still a lack of people with the skills that such a degree brings.

Good luck! :ok:

Hi ya Flame,

Thanks for the reply! Dont worry I wasn't taking it as a criticism of Kingston and I have my own opinions about their support etc that probably don't reflect accurately on the faculty as a whole as I was only a temporary/part timer and the rest of the year may have been better.

Your repeated references to a "young" man suggest you think I'm old? :{ there goes my ego spiralling down to earth with a crash...LOL!

At least he ended up in a proper engineering discipline and not some IT/computing dreamworld! Combine that with the "education" that a few years in Scotland will give him and he should be well on the way to becoming a useful member of society!

How did i ever become so cynical? Think I need a few hours in a comfy armchair with my pipe and slippers...

Cheers m'dear, JJ

Yep, I felt like that about fluid mechanics on occasion as well (my troubles started - about the point our lecturer started bringing calculus of imaginary numbers to allow algebraic modelling of a 2-D flowfield with a single equation.)

The fact is, aero-eng is a very difficult subject to learn, and all of us really struggle with parts of it - for me it was mostly the more complex bits of force-based structural analysis (although I'd have got to that point pretty quickly in fluid mechanics if I'd done the 3rd year optional courses in it I suspect). Similarly we all have our strong subjects, and most courses, once we've hacked our way through the basics, allow us to specialise - in my case that was on design and flight mechanics based issues.

G

In most subjects that would be true, but in Aero-Eng Kingston has a very good reputation indeed.

G

AWOL
 

Sorry I haven't replied for a while, I forget I'd even started this thread!

Anyhow, seen it on new posts and was pleased to see some interesting feedback. Here's an update as far as I'm concerned..

Applied for Aerospace Eng at the following (with a S*&T-hot personal statement)

• Liverpool
• Manchester
• Brunel
• Bath
• Sheffield

So far,

• Liverpool - Interview 1st March :ok:
• Manchester - Accepted:ok:
• Brunel - Accepted :ok:
• Bath - Rejected :mad:
• Sheffield - Accepted

Thats based on 3 B's without maths, so for Manc and Brunel they want me to do a foundation year, but does a year make that much difference when looking back? I think it's worth it.

My first choice is Liverpool, so anyone fmailiar with their course? It includes the pilot studies, with the PPL in year 1, then CPL/ATPL theory in year 2/3.

I'm grinning from ear to ear atm, as I received my accpetance from Manchester today. I was also thinking how I could prolong my uni experience.. 1 year foundation, 3 years work, 1 year in industry, 1 year for masters.. thats 6 years of unemployment. woop!

Anyhow, looking at getting airborne (hopefully in a plane!) soon, as I don't go until sept 2008.

Thanks all!

Dave :cool:

(Don't argue!)

I think you can assume that if Liverpool offer you a place, it'll also be conditional upon a Foundation year (or going and finding yourself a Maths A level); I don't think that Bath offer an FoE programme, so that's probably why the rejection.

I have a close colleague who until 2 years ago was teaching on that course at Liverpool. So far as I can tell, he only left because they wouldn't promote him, and still speaks very highly of the course - certainly professor Padfield, who runs that department, is extremely well regarded across the UK aerospace industry.

G

Whats the difference?
 

Whats the main difference between aeronautical eng and aerospace eng?

Cheers! :ok:

Not a lot - just what the individual university chooses to call it's course - ditto aviation engineering, aeronautics and astronautics....

Look at the detail of the course content and structure, don't worry about the name.

G

I thought so, they look the same from an overview perspective, wondered if I was missing anything.

Any ideas of what 'awkward' questions they might ask during the interview, if any?


Thanks for the feedback Genghis

I never had an interview for my course, but I'd imagine they'll want to know what level your maths and physics is at. Generally, if that's good, you'll be grand.

i personally wont go for a foundation if that's what the uni is offering you.most students lost interest while doing a foundation.. if you do not thing u can get at least B's in physics and maths then liverpool and manchester will only offer u a foundation or a different course like mechanical Eng. dont even think about sheffield without the grades. why didnt apply for salford? it's an acreditted engineering school.