See.HEY.HEY
 

Please Please, some one restore my faith in the caa ,, i have just paid £180 to renue my licence, or at least my company will have,what do we get for the money ??
in my opinion not much ?? how do they look after their licenced engineers...
how do they enhance our proffesion... i have seen lots of wanna be letters ,, most of them are answered with the dont do it statement... in 20 odd years of a/c certification i have seen how many changes in licencing policy???
i have just watched a freind struggle with his licence studying . only to be asked a load of irrelevant questions by some surveyor
who either has little hands on experience, or it occoured so long ago as to be out of date....what gives these people the deep insight and understanding of aviation that they claim to have...most have not worked a live a/c in years.. probably couldnt certify a thing by there own guidelines (a la office staff/managers certifying work.......has any one ever been asked by the caa about the problems of being a certifiying engineer..face to face as it were
with a chap from the local office..??
or do they only come round at audit time??
ok thats it.....got it off my chest...put me straight boys it was a long difficult night shift.........
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have a safe one

Concentrate on your spelling and punctuation!

Perhaps that's why the Oral exam is being withdrawn! Oh and we won't be engineers for much longer we will be TECHNICIANS. http://www.lae.mcmail.com for the Association of Licensed Aircraft Engineers, who are trying to fight against the removal of the oral and to maintain our position as professionals.

Well you have renewed it ,so you must have had a battle to get it,and you must have had it at least five years.
Are you a member of A.L.A.E.?
I suggest that you complain to them as they are our voice and have some formal say with the C.A.A. airworthiness department.

With that amount of mistakes you should not have a licence (no "O" Level English!). I hope you are better with the spanners than the keyboard.

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"Noted With Thanks"

Aw come on Denzil, you don't need to be good at spelling to be an engineer :) The meaning is loud and clear enough and I agree with almost every word. (See my post about JAR 66)

One thing though. Surveyors aren't bogeymen and all licence holders should go out of their way to get to know their local surveyor. I get on very well with ours and always found those I've dealt with to be reasonable chaps when you get to know them. Remember, we are both on the same side.

LAEs aren't really Aircraft Engineers, we are AIRWORTHINESS Engineers, dedicated to keeping the aircraft flying SAFELY.

Perhaps one of the failings that has led to our decline is that we often regarded surveyors as "The Enemy" You'd be surprised what some of them have to say about the CAA itself when you get them on their own. And they do have some extraordinarily nice things to say about us as well!

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Through difficulties to the cinema

Anyone out there done any Human Factors training? One of the aspects covered was 'What is a typical Engineer?' And surprisingly, typical engineers do make spelling mistakes. Regularly. I could go into all the psycho analasys, but haven't got the time right now. So please, all of you non-typical engineering typs out there who have perfect spelling, please go easy on our typical engineer who, after all, did have a very stressful night shift before he typed his bullitin.

By the way, my spelling has improved somewhat as my wife is a teacher and she has been known to look over my sholder and correct any bad spelling she may find. V.V. annoying I can tell you!

In reply to spannersatcx remarks about us being termed TECHNICIANS by the CAA, will this not bring us in line with the rest of the world, (bar those countries where the British CAA have an input), in that all we are, are certifying technicians. In certain european countries this is what there workers are called, and they are held with greater esteem. An engineer is seen as somebody who has achieved at least a degree in an engineering subject.
I do also agree that the system that is now being implemented, does appear to be downgrading the qualifications required for our job, so it may seem appropriate to also alter our job title.
Following, is the meanings of engineer and technician taken from The Chambers Dictionary so as to make your own mind up as to how we should be titled.

Engineer-someone who designs or makes, or puts to practical use, engines or machinery of any type.

Technician-a person skilled in a practical or mechanical art.

Hopefully all this euro-bureaucracy will not affect the washingmachine engineer or the gas appliance engineer, or the British housewife will not know who she has to telephone in an emergency.

Ingenieur oder Techniker - Wer sorgt?
Rusty Nail

Maybe i'm a little glib about this,but i don't care if you call me ENG or TECH ,so long as my pay doesn't get the DUMBING-DOWN treatment! If that happened to us thickie grafter type blokes,i'd like to see university-boy-super-dogs-dangly-engineer sort three tech aircraft out on his jack jones.
Anyways i need rotorcraft autopilot for my B2 ....can anyone tell me what a rotorcraft is? i've seen windmills in the sky with no wings..is that one of them?
Genghis is a clever bloke,i'm sure he'll know

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oops that's buggered it!

An emotive argument this one.

I'm a degree educated engineer (cone-head) and I thoroughly object to a plumber being able to be labelled as a "heating engineer" or a telephone fitter being called a "telecom engineer". :mad:

However, if the "engineer" is educated or trained to a certain level (which most contributors to this forum are) then they should be respected as such, and called Professional Engineers. To me, a technician is the person between the fitter and the engineer. I guess that fits in with Rusty's comments.

God, that's a load of waffle... :)

Oh and Jet Set, Reinforces the stereotype don't you think... if we didn't design them then you'd have no planes to go tech!!!

;)

CAA Form 1237, now then, what does it say here? Ah yes, I thought so, "Aircraft Maintenance Engineer's Licence" That's it then, argument over. I'm an engineer, its official. At least for the time being anyway :) :)

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Through difficulties to the cinema

AWN 3 Aircraft Maintenance Licence issued under JAR 66 as from 2001
para 13 JAR 66 Category A Aircraft Maintenance Licence (Line maintenance certifying mechanic)
Para 14 JAR 66 Category B1 Aircraft Maintenance Licence (Line maintenance certifying TECHNICIAN)
Para 15 JAR 66 Category B2 Aircraft maintenance Licence (Line maintenance certifying TECHNICIAN)
Para 16 JAR 66 Category C Aircraft Maintenance Licence (Base Maintenance Certifying ENGINEER)

So unless you are in the hangar issueing the final release of an aircraft off of a check you are now (or son will be) a TECHNICIAN.
From June 2001 no further BCAR section L LWTR's will be issued, on renewal you will hold a partial JAR 66 licence with grandfarther rights. There is a conversion document issued by the CAA telling you what you need. There is a document on the srg website http://www.caa.co.uk/

So until June 2001 enjoy your Engineer status (unless Cat C) whence you will be known as a certifying TECHNICIAN.

The ALAE fought for a very long time to keep the Title Engineer, but it fell on stoney ground. Http://www.lae.mcmail.com

Do you not find that when explaining the job you do, that you have to call yourself an engineer, so that the non technicals at least have an understanding of what we do.I have had to be very diplomatic when asked if my job involves topping up the oil, or if we remove the carpets to do our inspections.
In reply to Rusty Nails question,

ICH SORGE!!!!!

Hey snigs me old kipper,you didn't design the A320 toilet system did you? Some 'professional engineer' deserves 'a higher level of RE-education' for that little pearler! P.s i've just fixed the toilet at home ,does this make me a sanitation 'engineer'or do i need an input into the design stages of the ball-cock to qualify?
;) stereotype ? I can only manage with one finger at a time.........

My brain hurts boss...d'oh!

Engineer or Technician? To be honest it doesn't really matter which, as I don't think we will ever really get the recognition that we deserve for the responsibility we take on a day to day basis.
At the end of the day most of us have worked hard to pass licence exams etc and would like to be paid a decent basic salary without the need to do overtime. As it is a new starter F/O is on more money than a Licenced Engineer (or Technician) in the company I work for. Recognition for the job you do is always good, in this industry it is sadly lacking, with all the glory going to the boy's in the front seats.




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"Noted With Thanks"

Bingo.Absolutely right on the nail.See letter in Flight inter re abilities of current F/O's!

I couldn't agree more. This discussion has been going on and on and on in the dark and dusty corridors at the IMechE, and still nothing is done. I despair! :mad:

Jetty old bean, fortunately I didn't get my hands dirty in the A320 bogs, I'm mostly involved in making sure that the spinning metal bits in the engine keep on pushing the air backwards without falling off. Maybe it was a technician who designed the bogs !!! ;)

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I'll just go and get my coat....

I have no particular problem with this - I've got qualifications as an
Engineer and as a Technician - they are very different roles.

The Engineering Council, which deals with a lot more than just aerospace
uses the term Technician and Engineer. To call yourself either in their
eyes takes a lot of training and qualification. But in general I wouldn't
trust a maintenance Technician to design an aeroplane, any more than I'd
trust a design Engineer to maintain one. As it happens at a working level
Licensed Technicians are probably better paid than a just-qualified Graduate
Engineer anyway. It's just a shame that we are so out of step with the drivers (to make yourself feel good however, look how much a QFI gets!)

I'd love to see both terms being restricted by law (in the same way as
Doctors, Osteopaths, Accountants and other lesser professions) do - with a
fine or prison sentence for calling yourself an Engineer or Technician
without being properly qualified.

For lower forms of life below either we have the terms "Mechanic", "Fitter",
"Apprentice" or "Manager" depending upon preference.

Genghis CEng

N.B. JSS, I think you'll find that Rotorcraft defined in law asaircraft so ugly that they don't need wings to fly - the Earth just repels them.

"The Knack"
While I appreciate that you spanner wielders don't normally have time to visit sites of non-technical content, :) if you manage to grab a few spare seconds, try this for an explanation of your condition ;) ;) rickleephoto.com :) :)

[This message has been edited by Cornish Jack (edited 22 February 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Cornish Jack (edited 23 February 2000).]

Well that worked well, NOT!!!

The bottom line is "Show Us The Money" not the name.

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"Noted With Thanks"