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I don't want to sound like a quer or nuffin, but can I have YOUR job??


Only those who have seen ORGAZMO will understand that joke. For those who havn't seen ORGAZMO, go straight to your video store and get it out and watch it TIGHT NOW.

With regard to staff benifits, not everyone in aviation maintenance gets these. I do, but then I regard myself as one of the lucky few who do. But if my employers could do it, they wouild remove this 'costly privilidge' and worry about lower staff morale later on. Remember that privilidges can be removed and they don't keep a roof over your head.

Just as a matter of interest, do any engineers from purely 3rd party maintenance organisations who subscribe to Pprune get any sort of reduction on air fares? When I had an interview with what became FLS, there were none to be had, but this was 1988! Have things changed there with regard to staff travel?

Been in the civvie side of the industry for 12 years and have loved every minute of it!
So the management sometimes have total brain f...s - that happens everywhere!

So you sometimes have to work out in s... weather and the dark. So do plenty other of people! What about the times when the sun is splitting the tarmac. Ooops, forgotten about them?

So you sometimes don't get the respect you think you deserve. Go ask doctors, nurses, policemen, firemen, waiters/waitresses, bar staff, baggage handlers, ground handlers, check-in staff, etc.... how much respect they get from US!

So you think the money is not good enough. Well, it never is, is it. For me I earn more than enough and am well chuffed with what I get. Take a look at the AirMech salary survey and ask yourself if the money is that bad compared to other professions.

So you don't get think jobs are secure enough. What are the stats? 23% shortage of avionics LAME's and 15% shortage of mechanical LAME's - something like that. That sounds like pretty good job prospects to me.

So they've changed the licencing system. How long have we known it was going to happen? Only three sure things in life - nurses, death and change! Deal with it!

So you don't get any satisfaction out of your work. Personally I get a buzz every time I fix a tricky wee snag or fix a defect during a turn-round and get it away on time.

Mate, if I had my time again I wouldn't change a thing. If you are into aircraft and are interested in the job - DO IT! There IS job security. There IS good money to be made. There IS self satisfaction to be had doing it. There IS a fun to be had.

EVERY job has its down sides but I reckon you will find they are pretty much the same wherever you go to work.

The money is good, the perks are good if you get into a good airline and you get to lech at pretty girls getting off the charters from Ibiza and the like wearing close to nothing on a cold night.

Some of the replies given in this subject show exactly why one should not enter the industry.

However, to be able to contribute I feel that experience in other areas in "industry" is required. Working 23 years in the aviation industry and being happy with your lot can make one as jaded as someone whos only been in it 6 months and finds it all a**e.

Its one thing being experienced and satisfied with your lot. But that can also translate as old and trapped with deminishing opportunities to move on. To move on does not mean to transfer your efforts to another company within the industry. thats just the same job with a few different faces and different pay scales.

Moving on is gaining experience and credit in whatever you do in life. Taking that and any qualifications gained (qualifications, not licences) and puting them to use in a different environment.

In my eyes engineering is more than reading manuals and jocards. Engineering also involves creative problem solving and a need to improve. This is what is wrong within the industry in as much as we are not provided, on the whole, the opportunity to engineer (why in my eyes our job title is wrong).

I've not got long until I've finished another set of qualifications that will allow me to do just that. Another set of qualifications that have broadened my job opportunities not set me down the tunnel following a pin prick of light called retirement.

So again don't do it. If the sum of your ambitions is to glance at the occasional half errect nipple coming home of a charter flight at 3 in the morning. Or be stuck on a bliding hot pan in some god forsaken expanse of concrete with no assistance watching the crew wander of to air conditioning and a nights sleep fine, join it.

If you want to engineer and expand your horizons don't.

Former aircraft engineer known as Get a Bigger Hammer, I wasn't going to reply to the above, but.....

Moving on and growing doesn't necessarily mean you have to move from one profession to the next. New skills learned and qualifications gained (qualifications not licences) can just as easily be used to make you better, more interested and more satisfied in what you are doing now (I've done it as well). If you enjoy working on aircraft why go and design vacuum cleaners, fix computers or write software? If you really want to, you can grow in this job as much as in other walks of life.

I've worked for big airlines and small airlines. I've even worked in the family business (retail). There are loads of other jobs in the airlines that you can "grow" into other than spinning a spanner or pouring a can of oil. Be what you want to be, go where you want to go.

I certainly don't feel I have dimimishing opportunities or going down a tunnel following a pin prick of light called retirement. I've had the chance to design and redesign mods, design and manufacture test equipment, plan maintenance inputs, run maintenance inputs, be a company rep, be the voice on the end of the phone when things are turning to rat-sh.. down route, liase with manufacturers and the CAA, write engineering and quality procedures and loads more. I'm just an AMEL holder working on Mr Boeings produce, on the tools.

I agree with you, engineering is more than reading manuals and jobcards. It's also more than kicking tyres and pouring a can of oil. Ever fixed a snag that wasn't in the FIM or Trouble-shooting Manual (if you have such a luxury) and has taken three days? Didn't that use any of your creative juices? Ever been given an SB to do that is a load of bollocks and you have had to go back to the manufacturer and say "That's a load of bollocks. If we are going to this we need to do it this way." and they have come back and said "Yeah, you're right. Do it that way and we will re-write it." Or have you ever found the same problem on more than one occasion and said "If we do this .... we won't get this problem so often" and somebody has gone and done it that way? Isn't all the above creative problem solving and improving? The day this job stops having its problems to solve (engineering wise, that is) is the day I, like you, will give it up and find something that is more rewarding for me.

Don't assume the chance of a glance at the occasional half errect nipple is the sum of my ambitions - as I said that's a pert, sorry, perk. And I doubt that is the sum of Shaymey's ambitions either or he wouldn't be asking for the sage advice of so many wise men and women.

I'm sure I speak for all your ex-colleagues in aircraft engineering in wishing you every success, happiness and fulfilment in your new career.

And Shaymey, remember, it is those with the biggest axes to grind that shout the loudest.

I have been in the industry for 33 years, and have seen the job and terms decline in the industry over that time. Like most others here, I would not advise my children to become an engineer. Maybe a pilot? If we had kept some relationship to pilots conditions/pay then maybe things would be different. I had very good training in my apprenticeship, for which I am grateful, however that same level of expertise does not exist with the same company in this day and age.

I have had a reasonable life from the industry, but not everyone wants to work in the countries and situations I have either. It is not very marriage freindly. Only a very few have the good type of job that spannersatcx has, most of the rest just exist to pay the bills from month to month. We joke about AIDS (Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome) but it exists in large amounts.
Go with IT!!!

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When all else fails, read the manual!

If you are truely interested in aircraft ,I mean to the point that one cannot fly overhead without you looking up and maveling at the sheer dynamics of a 120,000 lb. peice of machinery soaring through the air under its own power. It will be the most rewarding decision you have ever made. The b---sh-t comes with any job in every field, we just have to deal with it. Currently it is a wide open field with endless possibilities, especially for a single person with the freedom to travel. Run with it, you will learn something new everyday.

I know I contradicted myself in my last post.I Know the grass isn't always greener and I am moving to new pastures.

I have an advantage over many people. I didn't leave school and join an airline and still work for the same airline!

I've had some 20 years civil (2 airlines, one maintenance company), 12 years RAF and about a year in a factory on plant maintenance.

As you can see, I've looked at a lot of grass, some of it was scourched, some was as green as it could be.

BUT...where I'm currently working there is no grass. It's been sold off as turf. It's just time for me to move on. If I was left to do my job I'd probably stay, it's just the cr*p that goes with the job.

DON'T DO IT ..DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT....I'VE BEEN IN LINE MAINTENANCE FOR 22 YEARS AND HAVE WORKED MY WAY WITHOUT ANY COURSES OR HELP UP TO FULL B1 LEVEL WHICH TOOK ME MANY YEARS OF BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS OF STUDY. THE RESPONSIBILITY I HAVE IS HUGE AND THE WORKING CONDITIONS I HAVE TO PUT UP WITH ARE SIMPLY NOT REFLECTED IN THE PAY I RECEIVE.EG MY WIFE STARTED WORK PART TIME IN AN OFFICE,ONE YEAR AGO (NO QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED FOR THE JOB) AND NO GREAT RESPONSIBILITY AND RECEIVES TWO THIRDS OF MY HOURLY RATE AND GREATER RESPECT AND PRESTIGE.

I havent got an axe to grind.I also do my best to treat everyone with respect,no matter who they are or whot they do.Because I know whot its like to be treated with no respect and be talked down to, just because of the job you do.

I reckon that if I stay in the industry another ten years, then I'll be earning about the same as I did fifteen years ago!
I've been lucky, same wife for 32 years, raised two good kids, kept my licence and endorsements since 1970, but had it decimated to the extent that it's only good for getting me in over my head with responsibility! When I first earned my licence, an Engineer was looked upon with a certain amount of respect, but that has been somehow diminished. Aviation was once described as "great hobby, but a lousy way to make a living". I'm pleased that I chose it as a career way back when, but I'm sad to state that I would have to think twice, if I had to do it all again, knowing what I do know now. I'm not bitchin - just tired!
Regards, Max

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When I push the panic button, the breaker pops!

NRG, no offense or insult intended but as you said, your wife sits in an office.
My "office" is a $200 million jet.
If you're an "avo-head" like me this is much more fun.

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D V D A
(sorry Trey)

I've been in the business for 23 years, give or take a few years when I was forced to leave and do something else (Software Development for Apple Computer) which involved working "9 to 5" in an office and seeing the same old faces in the same old traffic jams every morning and every evening. I did'nt stick that for long. I came straight back and am still working in the wind, rain, snow and sunshine and enjoy every minute. Pinpusher's posts reflect exactly how it is and the challenges and rewards are there everyday if you look for them. We get plenty of respect from pilots and cabin crew but self respect is something that you generate yourself. As for Jetfueldrinkers question about concessions. Yes, we get concessions offered from many of our customers. I love the job that I do. It pays well enough in comparison to many other jobs and better than a lot of piloting jobs. I can afford a nice new car for myself and the missus, a nice house in the country, holidays in nice places etc.. that many of my friends who are pilots cannot because they are saddled with huge loans that they had to take out for their training and are still repaying!

[This message has been edited by HiSpeedTape (edited 10 June 2001).]

My first choice was to be a pilot but my family background is not wealthy enough to pay for the costs and by the time I started earning money as an engineer I'd seen a lot of middle-aged pilots wondering around hangars scavenging for work and being treated like !!!!!.
I'm happy being a fix-it-guy.


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D V D A
(sorry Trey)