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-   -   Scavenging a crashed 777: for a book (https://www.pprune.org/engineers-technicians/547741-scavenging-crashed-777-book.html)

NutLoose 13th Jul 2020 13:46

You can distill water with a solar still made from plastic sheet etc, see

https://www.google.com/search?source...w=1280&bih=910



kenpimentel 15th Jul 2020 18:46

re: watch with PLB
Didn't have any idea they could squeeze a 121Mhz beacon into something that small!

re: solar still
I think with 250 people to get 1/2G of water per day (minimum for drinking), I have to come up with something larger scale than a solar still. That's why I'm thinking of "industrializing" using the boiler to more aggressively produce steam from salt-water that is then condensed. I realize there are issues with removing the brine from the boiler, but I think if a pinhole is pulling the brine out the bottom while fresh seawater goes in the top, it will work.

kenpimentel 6th Sep 2020 16:54

I was hoping there is something on the 777 that could be easily used as a simple personal "shield". For example, if there was a removable seat cushion that had some padding/thickness that could absorb a hit with a club. The shield doesn't have to be that effective, just better than nothing. My research suggests that the seat cushions are not useable for this purpose (they don't just pop off). For my story, I'm looking for something quick to use, not something that takes a while to manufacture/assemble, but I probably could use both options in my story - a "quick" better than nothing shield, and a "if you took the time to do this" shield.

thanks!

Webby737 7th Sep 2020 12:34

I've never worked the cabin of a 777 but speaking in general about the economy class seats used in most commercial aircraft.

The seat base cushions are normally only held in place by a couple of strips of velcro so these can be pulled off the seat relatively easily.
The seat backs are a different matter, often requiring removal of the seat back cover before being able to remove the foam.

kenpimentel 7th Sep 2020 13:06


Originally Posted by Webby737 (Post 10880070)
I've never worked the cabin of a 777 but speaking in general about the economy class seats used in most commercial aircraft.

The seat base cushions are normally only held in place by a couple of strips of velcro so these can be pulled off the seat relatively easily.
The seat backs are a different matter, often requiring removal of the seat back cover before being able to remove the foam.

Perfect! That matches my description well of using the seat base cushions. Thanks so much!

kenpimentel 19th Sep 2020 11:59

Does a 777 carry any form of stretcher? My research suggests that it doesn't.

Can you imagine how you'd scavenge a 777 to make a few stretchers? Are there some long "rods" that could be easily removed? It could be a flat panel about 6' long that 4 people could carry. Basic tools are available (what you'd expect to find in a flight technician's tool bag/bog). It has to be relatively straightforward to do, it can't require all day to do it. There are trees a few miles away from the crash site, so it might be easiest to cut branches and fashion something.

Tobikan Judan 19th Sep 2020 16:20


Originally Posted by kenpimentel (Post 10888508)
Does a 777 carry any form of stretcher? My research suggests that it doesn't.

Can you imagine how you'd scavenge a 777 to make a few stretchers? Are there some long "rods" that could be easily removed? It could be a flat panel about 6' long that 4 people could carry. Basic tools are available (what you'd expect to find in a flight technician's tool bag/bog). It has to be relatively straightforward to do, it can't require all day to do it. There are trees a few miles away from the crash site, so it might be easiest to cut branches and fashion something.


Cargo bay nets?

kenpimentel 19th Sep 2020 19:06

Of course! I have to remember those cargo nets. They could be used lots of different ways.

Thanks!

MurphyWasRight 12th Oct 2020 16:40


Originally Posted by kenpimentel (Post 10879585)
I was hoping there is something on the 777 that could be easily used as a simple personal "shield". For example, if there was a removable seat cushion that had some padding/thickness that could absorb a hit with a club. The shield doesn't have to be that effective, just better than nothing. My research suggests that the seat cushions are not useable for this purpose (they don't just pop off). For my story, I'm looking for something quick to use, not something that takes a while to manufacture/assemble, but I probably could use both options in my story - a "quick" better than nothing shield, and a "if you took the time to do this" shield.

thanks!

For both shields and stretchers don't forget the overhead luggage bin doors. I believe they are relatively light weight yet able to absorb/deflect blows. Minor effort to remove them given the right tools. I am not an AME so no direct experience other than occasionaly whacking my head on partially opened ones,

Lavatory and cockpit doors might also be stretcher material.

The seat bottom pans and backs might be useful for shields, they certainly seem hard enough on a cross country trip in economy given the 'unuseable' cushions you mentioned.

Some other items you may already have in mind:

Consider using the innermost window element to create face shields, some heat will probably allow it to be formed.
Make sure they save all the seat belts, need something to attach shields and obviously other uses as well.

The seat tracks might be removable to yield relatively long chunks of metal. Good 'erector set' element for building things. Possibly similar but larger elements in cargo hold.

Lots of copper, both in wiring and motor/generator windings.

The magnetron in the microwaves have a couple of powerful donut shaped magnets useful for quick release attachments. The empty microwave makes a good small everything proof storage locker.

The floor panels may be removable, source of strong flat surfaces, no idea what size they are. Easier than cutting fuselage for raw metal.

One time O2 source for "enhanced combustion" will be the passenger O2 generators, about 15 minutes as I recall, no idea on raw flow rate.

Not sure vintage of weather radar, if older it may have a parabolic reflector and motorized gimbals for scanning, cover it with tinfoil to create solar oven.



















kenpimentel 13th Oct 2020 18:30

Those are really good suggestions, you should see some of them in the book! :)
thanks

kenpimentel 13th Oct 2020 18:33

Copyright 2020, Ken Pimentel

I thought I'd share the first few scenes on the 777:Part One: New World

Chapter One

A stutter of light pierces the cabin, fracturing the composure of all 260 passengers onboard American Airlines Flight 67 bound for San Juan, Puerto Rico. For an instant, reality is jagged and discontinuous, like an old film played back at the wrong frame rate.

Then it’s gone. The seamless flow of time reasserts itself. Conversations resume amidst puzzled looks. But nothing will be the same.

On the flight deck, Sam Wells sits wide-eyed and blinking, trying to clear fragmented after-images. A buzzer startles him. The Flight Management Computer (FMC) displays “GPS Data Lost”. A half-second later, the autopilot disconnects. Reflexively, he hooks it back up.

Worried it was a lightning strike from the storm they thought they left behind, he scans the myriad dials and displays for other surprises. In all his years flying 777s he’s never seen the GPS fail. Still, losing it is an inconvenience - they can safely navigate with the plane’s inertial guidance system.

Glancing at the radar display, he frowns. A look out the flight deck window confirms the radar. He presses the PA button, “First Officer Kang, please return to the flight deck.” He wants someone to validate what he’s seeing – and his sanity.

#

When the flicker of light and disorientation hits, Linda Kang is standing in front of the first class lavatory mirror washing her hands. Feeling faint, she steadies herself. “What was that?”

Sam’s announcement surprises her. Touching the brim of her American Airlines cap, she lowers it a fraction. Her long, glossy-black hair, neatly curled in a bun, is secured by her cap, but strands escape to frame her oval face. She frowns, her mirror-twin sharing her concern. Pulling open the door, she heads back to the flight deck.

Moving forwards, she nods to Nicky Gonzalez, the senior flight attendant, who removes the protective barricade that blocks other passengers from using the lavatory. Ever since 9/11, a pilot can only leave the flight deck to use the bathroom – and even then, the door has to be protected from entry by a barricade.

Before she passes into the flight deck, Nicky hands Linda a cup of black coffee from Sam’s special stock. Without continual refreshes, he gets a little cranky.

Nicky asks, “Did you see that flash? Did we get hit by lightning? I’ve never seen anything like it.”

Linda can see Nicky’s concern. Given her 33 years with American, triple Linda’s, she’s had opportunity to pretty much see everything. Nicky’s known as “Mom” to the crew because of her indefatigable efforts to monitor their well being and enforce sleep schedules. Having lost her own mother as a teenager, Linda accepts the substitute.

“I don’t know what it was, but Sam will. I wouldn’t worry, I’m sure we’re OK.” Holding Sam’s coffee, Linda steps into the flight deck and locks the door behind her.

As she squeezes into her seat and hands Sam his coffee, he nods towards the flight deck window and asks in his Texas drawl, “Notice anything missing?”

“What am I looking for?” She searches the skies.

He’s silent.

“Where’s the storm? Are we still flying southeast?” She glances at the instruments and answers her own question, “Guess so. OK, what’s going on?”

He shrugs. “Damned if I know. First, there was a flash, then the GPS stopped working. After that, the radar wasn’t showing the storm, so I looked outside. The storm’s just gone. I know that makes me sound nuttier than a pecan pie. Decided I wanted a second opinion.”

Linda scans the skies again, wondering how a massive storm could evaporate so quickly. She shakes her head. “Any other problems?”

“Other than GPS, everything seems fine. Maybe it was lightning, so might see other issues. Why don’t you check with Bermuda Air Traffic Control? They’re closest to us, maybe they know something.”

She keys in the frequency. “Bermuda, this is American 6-7, over?” She waits a moment and then repeats herself. Sibilant static fills the flight deck.

Sam verifies her frequency and radio settings, “That’s odd. Didn’t we just talk to them fifteen minutes ago? Try some other ATCs.”

She looks up frequencies and repeats the process - nothing but static. “Maybe the transmitter’s broken?”

“Seems unlikely.” Sam visualizes all the communication systems carried on the 777. “Since the satellite phone won’t work without GPS, try sending a message using the data link to let Bermuda ATC know our situation.”

“Sure, just a sec…” She turns to the data link display, types her message and presses, “send”. When nothing happens, she studies the display and notices an error code. She looks up the code. “Odd, it says we’re not in range of a satellite. I thought this worked world-wide?”

“We lost the data link too? Let me try. Christ, can’t believe this …” he trails off, playing with the gear. The data link stubbornly insists there aren’t any satellites. “Let’s check all the VHF radios. Maybe we can’t transmit, but we should hear someone. Also try the programmed channels, maybe there’s a HAM operator out there.”

As Linda reaches for the VHF panel, Sam asks, “By the way, did you try Long Distance Operations Control?”

She nods, checking the frequencies, listening for any man-made sound. Within minutes, she turns to him and shakes her head.

“How is it all the VHF radios aren’t working? That’s going to make the landing a lot more complicated.” Remembering procedures he adds, “Squawk 7600 to let everyone know we’ve got comm issues.”

Reaching down to the transponder control panel on the pedestal next to her she sends the 7600 code. Now, anyone receiving their transponder signal will know their communications have failed. Both pilots and traffic controllers have detailed processes to follow in such cases.

Sipping his coffee, Sam summarizes their situation, “OK, we’re two hours out of Newark. In a couple hours we’ll land at San Juan and an aircraft technician can figure out what’s wrong. We’re not the first to get hit by lightning and we won’t be the last.”

Linda takes her cues from Sam. With twenty-five years’ experience, he’s well known and liked within the tight community working the San Juan route. If he isn’t panicking, there isn’t any reason for her. Still, there’s no telling what other problems are lurking to disrupt the complicated process of landing the big plane.

Realizing there isn’t much more he can do for the next hour, Sam reaches up and stretches his six-foot-three frame. There’s barely room for the effort in the cramped cockpit. Patting his rounded belly he says to Linda, “I blame you! You’d better stop bringing jelly doughnuts or I’m gonna spread out like a cold supper.” At seventeen, Sam had been a 250-pound linebacker at Texas A&M, but now at 52, he’s long since lost all his hair and most of his conditioning – the weight, well, he’d kept that.

Linda smiles, focusing on the view out the window. She enjoys flying with Sam, he reminds her of her dad in a way. She adjusts her seat higher – she’s only a little over five feet tall and always has trouble getting the seat the way she likes it. She wishes she could adjust her rounded shape as easily. After trying every imaginable diet, she’s decided she’ll have to wait for the right guy, one who can love a chunky Korean princess. It’s been a long wait so far.

After another fruitless test of the radios, Linda asks, “Hey, how’s Kathy doing?”

Years ago, when Sam started the San Juan route, it led to a chance meeting in Newark with a slender, dark-haired woman waiting for coffee. When Kathy accidentally dropped her portfolio of architecture designs, he naturally helped pick them up. That chance meeting turned into a march down the aisle and eventually a daughter, Kristen.

It had all been so perfect for so long, but when Kathy contracted Lyme disease, things started unraveling. Now he and Kristen deal with the complications on a daily basis – when he’s home.

“She’s having another flare-up, I tried to find someone else to fly for me, but you know how it is on short notice. Luckily, I’ll be back tomorrow and have a few days off.”

“Are you going to take the early retirement offer?”

“The girls want me to, but here I am – flying again. Kathy used to manage all the finance and household crap. But now it’s too much for her and I guess I need to step up. Kristen’s pretty upset, there were tears when I left. Might be asking too much from her, she’s only just turned eighteen. But they don’t understand, flying’s all I ever wanted to do.”

Linda shares the same compulsion; she can’t imagine not ever flying again. “Your doctor prescribes a margarita, let’s grab one at the hotel. I know I’m going to need one - this might even be a two-margarita flight.”

On cue, the plane shakes hard for an instant before continuing peacefully.

kenpimentel 25th Oct 2020 12:01

Question: I am setting fire to the tail of the 777 (row 40 aft) for plot purposes. This part has separated from the main body. Is there anything obvious that would have enough explosion to knock someone down about 20' from the tail? It could be some pressurized cylinder, it doesn't necessarily have to be explosive in nature. As long as I can get some fragments whizzing outwards to injure someone, that is fine. AFAIK, there isn't anything quite like this in the tail section?

FlightDetent 25th Oct 2020 12:56

non T7 rated:

The pressure cylinders installed that propel the aspirator for the inflatable emergency slide. For a work of fiction, as in the real life those are certified for crash conditions. Whether or not for overheat in a blaze I dare not to speculate.

Alternatively, a tyre burst will kill and even down a plane, that is unfortunately proven. Perhaps a separated MLG wheel lies beneath the torn-off tail? Sounds plausible to me. https://images.app.goo.gl/y3M6CJRVjyKdqUdW7 Extended gears are engineered to break away in heavy cash they say.

kenpimentel 25th Oct 2020 13:06

Thanks, I'll investigate those ideas some more.

kenpimentel 25th Oct 2020 13:32

I found that some 777 have optional O2 tanks for supplying PAX masks. If I mix that with some spilled fuel from the APU feed, maybe that combo would go "boom" enough. I know that the fuel on the plane is more like kerosene - but mix it with some O2 and I would guess it gets a bit more violent. I found a "Flammables" document on 777 for emergency responders - good document to show where interesting things are.

MAC 40612 31st Oct 2020 04:03

I've just found this thread

Oxygen cylinders approximately 13-16 [depending on seating configuration] all located in the rear freight bay right hand side wall. One crew oxygen cylinder located in the left hand crawl-way under the floor at the front on the aircraft.

With regards to the transponders and such like. Only the selector panels for these and communications are in the flight deck. All the actual transmitters/transceivers are located remotely below the floor in the MEC [MainElectronics Centre] so all the wiring would need to be intact between the head end [selector units] and the actual transceivers for them to work

With regards to making stretchers. Most Boeing 777s I've worked on have crew rest areas for flight crew and sometimes also cabin crew located up a staircase in the upper part of the fuselage. The flight crew rest area tends to have at least two beds, while the cabin crew rest area has about eight beds. All of which could be re-purposed into stretchers.

Economy [Coach] class seat squabs [the seat base] are all normally easily removable, they are only held down to the seat with velcro fastening. Only seats in Business/First tend to have seat cushions that are harder to remove.

Modern aircraft beverage makers only have very small boilers [typically enough to make a couple of pots of coffee/tea] before they need to refill/reboil.

N707ZS 31st Oct 2020 07:49

How about an item of passenger hand luggage with a big rechargeable battery. I saw a film clip last week of explosions in a recycling plant and a couple of the explosions would get a person moving, perhaps not by force from the explosion.

kenpimentel 31st Oct 2020 10:52


Originally Posted by N707ZS (Post 10915576)
How about an item of passenger hand luggage with a big rechargeable battery. I saw a film clip last week of explosions in a recycling plant and a couple of the explosions would get a person moving, perhaps not by force from the explosion.

That's a good idea! I can certainly use it as an accelerant.

MAC 40612 Thanks for the locations of O2 tank and other suggestions.

kenpimentel 11th Nov 2020 16:55

When you get an error code on the Data Link, where do you look up the code? Or, does the Data Link give you a more verbose error code?

MAC 40612 11th Nov 2020 20:58

Are you talking about a SATCOM datalink? If so then you normally just get messages like "Datalink lost" or "No SATCOM" as that is all the pilots need to know. Specific reasons for SATCOM data failure are only normally gleaned by looking at the MAT [Maintenance Access Terminal] which is located on the rear right-hand side of the flight deck [behind where the co-pilot sits] This is the access point that a ground engineer uses to look for any fault history, existing faults, present leg faults or carry out system tests, to see if a fault is present of has been cleared after maintenance. It runs on Windows XP :eek:

kenpimentel 12th Nov 2020 08:52

That's what I needed to know. Thanks!

BTW, is the MAT equipped with a keyboard, display and mouse/trackball/pad?

MAC 40612 13th Nov 2020 13:37

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by kenpimentel (Post 10924724)
That's what I needed to know. Thanks!

BTW, is the MAT equipped with a keyboard, display and mouse/trackball/pad?

It varies on the age of the Boeing 777. Early -200 series had keyboard that stowed away in a slot underneath the screen and a "curly" telephone type extension cable that meant you could place the keyboard in a comfortable condition for typing. As well as the keyboard, there was also a trackball type arrangement with two buttons adjacent to the screen. Later models had dispensed with the trackball and had a pad [like on a laptop] but these were always a bit of a pain as weren't as robust as the old style trackball. They also had a Floppy disk drive for updating software!

Later -300 series versions had a touchscreen

Some airlines also took up the option to have a second MAT [Maintenance Access Terminal] down in the MEC [Main electronics Centre] as some ground tests needed action to be carried out in the MEC area and it meant one person could do the task as they had the MAT downstairs with them. The MAT in the MEC was basically a rugged Laptop in a steel casing that you connected into the aircraft systems downstairs in the MEC via an umbilical cord] which replicated the MAT up in the flight deck. Note the MAT in the MEC was only powered up after a selector switch on the pilots overhead panel was selected on.

With regards to the MAT screen early -200 had a CRT type screen. Later -200 and -300 had LCD/LED type screen.

The later 300 series had a touchscreen MAT. The attached pdf file shows the later touchscreen type MAT.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6efcadd322.png
Early 200 series MAT. Keyboard stowed under flap underneath screen.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....44291e77b6.png
Portable MAT in the MEC area.

kenpimentel 14th Nov 2020 18:38

That's handy to know! I'm sure another computer will be useful somehow. Though the PAX do have laptops, so I'm not too dependent on it.

kenpimentel 17th Nov 2020 18:49

Couple questions:
1) Does the IRS/IRU feed a chart display in the cockpit? Or, does it just give lat/long? If it feeds a display/readout, does it have a name?
2) If you needed steel cable (sort of around 1-3mm) is there any of that in the plane? If so, about how long would it be and how easy would it to be extract?

MAC 40612 24th Nov 2020 22:37


Originally Posted by kenpimentel (Post 10928969)
Couple questions:
1) Does the IRS/IRU feed a chart display in the cockpit? Or, does it just give lat/long? If it feeds a display/readout, does it have a name?
2) If you needed steel cable (sort of around 1-3mm) is there any of that in the plane? If so, about how long would it be and how easy would it to be extract?

The standard Boeing 777 layout is six CRT/LCD type screens. The two centre screens are used for Engine parameters and warnings and the bottom one of these two is normally used on the ground by the engineers [in fact in flight many flight crews fly with the lower centre screen off]

The two screens of each of the Captain and First officer's side are mirror images with the outer normally being the PFD [Primary flight Display] and the inner being the ND [Navigational Display] I say normally, as the thing about modern airliners like the Boeing 777 is that the screens can be switched to any of the displays either manually or in the event of a failure, screen switching takes place. The ND [Navigational display] gives you a "moving map" type display


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....3e5f07a049.png

With regards to steel cables you can still find some below the floor in underneath the flight deck from underneath the control column as Boeing didn't go to a completely FBW system until the 787..

kenpimentel 28th Nov 2020 11:15

As usual, much thanks for the detail. Just trying to keep the story as real as possible.

kenpimentel 29th Nov 2020 13:12

My latest challenge is this:
- 777 has belly landed on a saltpan (wheels up)
- slides have deployed
- The plane rests on it's fuselage, so the bottom of the cabin door is 8' feet or so above the saltpan

Question: how do I get back into the plane? I'd like to move injured people into first-class to use the reclining seats. I don't see over-wing exits, so can't use that method.

- I could go in through a cargo door, but I don't know if there is a way to go up from there
- I could make a ladder out of local wood - but not easy for injured that way

FlightDetent 29th Nov 2020 22:24


landed on a saltpan (wheels up)
why wheels up?

Admittedly I have no immediate ideas about the challenge proposed, not to mention making it worse. Oh, maybe this: On my last Emergency and Safety Equipment Training, we were shown how to and then tasked to climb up the slides back inside the airframe - in order to collect supplies and medical equipment.

MAC 40612 30th Nov 2020 00:28


Originally Posted by kenpimentel (Post 10936842)
My latest challenge is this:
- 777 has belly landed on a saltpan (wheels up)
- slides have deployed
- The plane rests on it's fuselage, so the bottom of the cabin door is 8' feet or so above the saltpan

Question: how do I get back into the plane? I'd like to move injured people into first-class to use the reclining seats. I don't see over-wing exits, so can't use that method.

- I could go in through a cargo door, but I don't know if there is a way to go up from there
- I could make a ladder out of local wood - but not easy for injured that way

Lots of problems here...

You cannot open the cargo door without aircraft power [as it is electrically driven - both the door locks and the opening mechanism]

Even if you did get into the forward freight bay there is not an easy way up to the main deck, as there will be cargo pallets in the freight bay. Even if the freight bay were empty there is only a narrow door on the forward l/hand side that gets you into the MEC [Main Electronics Centre] and from there you need to open a hatch above you and climb a small ladder to get onto the passenger deck. Not suitable for transporting anyone injured. Before you get excited about the mention of a ladder it is only a three rung ladder [probably only a few few long]

Virtually every airline that I can think of business and first class reclining seats are all electrically powered. so not a lot of use without aircraft power, as you would not be able to make them into flat beds.



kenpimentel 30th Nov 2020 08:18

re: landing
My research says that a 777 requires reinforced concrete to land on. It's 150 tons of plane. I'm not sure how heavy those other airplanes are landing on grass in the video.
As I understand things, the ACN of a 777-200ER is roughly 82 (depending on how loaded)
The PCN of an asphalt runway can be 30 (Georgetown International in Bahamas)
The PCN should be larger than the ACN if you want to land without damaging the runway
I have no idea what the PCN of a grass/gravel is, but I'm assuming it is much lower than asphalt
According to the data I found, single tire pressure is 1.5Mpascals of main landing gear just resting on a rigid surface. I don't know what the dynamic load would be, but significantly more than that.

So, to avoid the risk of the wheels digging in/breaking off, I have the plane ditching in shallow water (8') and driving up onto the saltpan.

Re: climbing back into the cabin
That's going to force a bunch of rewrites to fix it. I think they'll have to build a wooden ladder to get back up. Or pile the luggage in a mound? Ugh. Climbing the slide is workable for a few sturdy types.

Re: electric seats
Well, since there is no way to get the injured back up there, I guess the problem is solved...

Thanks again. Had wished for answers more aligned with my writing. :)

kenpimentel 2nd Dec 2020 18:55

Question: The wifi system will no longer work because all satellites will be missing. Is the error generated something the Captain/FO would be aware of or deal with? Or, are the attendants the ones to discover the error? Would there be an error code?


kenpimentel 2nd Dec 2020 19:01

re: climbing back into the cabin
- current thought is setup up a rope ladder or cargo net on the slide to climb up
- could make something relatively simple and slide the injured people back up and into the plane - the slide won't be angled that much because no landing gear - so roughly 50% less angle than what it is designed for.

re: seats
If there is no way to mechanically force the seats, then that is a problem. I don't suppose the 12V backup system could be used to briefly restore power to the seats? That shouldn't have been damaged. I just don't know if that power is available to the seats or only to other critical systems.

N707ZS 3rd Dec 2020 08:42


Originally Posted by kenpimentel (Post 10939132)
re: climbing back into the cabin
- current thought is setup up a rope ladder or cargo net on the slide to climb up.

Just a thought, unless the plane split on landing, how much access will you have to the cargo area if the doors are closed to obtain nets and luggage.

kenpimentel 3rd Dec 2020 08:49


Originally Posted by N707ZS (Post 10939412)
Just a thought, unless the plane split on landing, how much access will you have to the cargo area if the doors are closed to obtain nets and luggage.

According to a manual I found, the 777 has backup battery power to operate the cargo hatches in the case of main power failure?

MurphyWasRight 3rd Dec 2020 16:41


Originally Posted by kenpimentel (Post 10939419)
According to a manual I found, the 777 has backup battery power to operate the cargo hatches in the case of main power failure?

The concern might be that the cargo doors would be blocked by belly landing, guess you could dig a pit around one if that is an issue.

You might be able to manually activate the seats by removing motors to spin shafts by hand. Alternate would be direct connect a battery to motors in case the seat as a unit does not power up from available power.

I think that the passenger list might be a significant factor in having odds and ends that you need:

3 or 4 parties going to a big wedding, bringing gifts with them, this can cover a lot of things that people normally would not have with them such as high quality knives etc.

One of the guests has COPD and is oxygen dependant so will have a portable oxygen concentrator on board plus a larger backup unit as luggage.
The larger unit has a high pressure pump to refill portable O2 tanks.
Given power these can produce moderate amounts (~10l/minute) of O2 for extended periods.
To bad that person has to perish in the crash so no moral dilemma hijacking the equipment.

A couple bringing their own gear for scuba diving, dive lights, (empty) high pressure tanks, spears and knives.

Two or three open source computer geeks returning from a conference, this provides expertise and SW needed to deal with Windows license expiring rendering computers useless.
Actually just had this happen to me on an old laptop that could no longer access a former employers system to verify certificates.

and others as required...








kenpimentel 5th Dec 2020 11:29

re: cargo doors
The aft tail (at row 40) is separated and open. Is it true if you can get into one cargo bay, you can get into the others? I also think one side of the airplane can be higher than the other and the cargo bays easily cleared.

re: seats
Not sure it is worth the effort of using them if they are complex to lay out without power

re: cargo/passenger luggage
Thanks for suggestions, I do have similar items listed on inventory and both technogeeks, chemists and even an engineer from Colt.

boguing 5th Dec 2020 20:20

Apologies for not having read every post, but even if the engines are still attached I think it would be easier to get people up onto the wing via the engine and thence through the over wing exits?

kenpimentel 6th Dec 2020 15:25

re: Over-wing exits
Are there over-wing exits on a 777-200? I'm struggling to confirm that - it would make things easier for me. I think they exist on a 777-300. I may have to convert my story to use a 777-300 only because of this. I've written it assuming there were over wing exits, but doesn't look like it on the 777-200.

boguing 6th Dec 2020 16:27

Drat, doesn't look like -200s do have them. This is another example of why I'd never make a good spotter.

N707ZS 6th Dec 2020 17:24

If you look here the BA ones are on the trailing edge.

boeing 777-200 seat map - Google Search


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