Scavenging a crashed 777: for a book
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Hey people. I've been busy in other parts of the book, not related to aircraft disassembly. I'm now 90,000 words done, and I need to extract some weapons from the aircraft.
I've decided that crossbows are the simplest thing to pursue for a bunch of untrained PAX. The stock, bow will be made of wood along with the trigger mechanism. I could use other material from the plane if it made sense and wouldn't require excessive effort to extract rework.
I was wondering if the bolts (the arrows used in a crossbow) could be made out of stainless steel? Someone mentioned to me that the seats of an aircraft contain stainless steel rods? I don't know what diameter these are, or how long. My hope was that they were about 18" long and about 1/4" diameter. You'd sharpen the end of them using a stone and have a bolt. If each seat has a couple of these, then I have plenty of bolts.
If not bolts, then how about making steel tips to go on wood bolts? Are there things that might make great sharp tips with minor modification? There is plenty of hard, dense wood on this island. It would make decent shafts.
Tools available include a hand drill, a couple cordless drills, a single Dremel. Hacksaw with a couple spare blades, other basic tools. No lathe, grinding machines, forge (yet), or anything more sophisticated than hand tools.
Any help appreciated.
I've decided that crossbows are the simplest thing to pursue for a bunch of untrained PAX. The stock, bow will be made of wood along with the trigger mechanism. I could use other material from the plane if it made sense and wouldn't require excessive effort to extract rework.
I was wondering if the bolts (the arrows used in a crossbow) could be made out of stainless steel? Someone mentioned to me that the seats of an aircraft contain stainless steel rods? I don't know what diameter these are, or how long. My hope was that they were about 18" long and about 1/4" diameter. You'd sharpen the end of them using a stone and have a bolt. If each seat has a couple of these, then I have plenty of bolts.
If not bolts, then how about making steel tips to go on wood bolts? Are there things that might make great sharp tips with minor modification? There is plenty of hard, dense wood on this island. It would make decent shafts.
Tools available include a hand drill, a couple cordless drills, a single Dremel. Hacksaw with a couple spare blades, other basic tools. No lathe, grinding machines, forge (yet), or anything more sophisticated than hand tools.
Any help appreciated.
Ah, weapons, hobby interest !
A crossbow is a reasonably precise bit of machinery, needing reasonable manufacturing precision as well as storing enough energy to take your fingers off it if fails whilst cocked. That may be a plot device you can use ! You'd really not struggle if pulling any aeroplane apart to find control pushrods of one sort or another than could do a reasonable impression of a crossbow bolt. I doubt you'd find them in the seat.
The simplest weapon I know that is easy to manufacture and use is a spear. A spear, contrary to popular opinion, is in most variations not a throwing weapon. Basically it's a stick with a knife on the end of it, and the techniques of using a spear are very similar to those for a longsword. Historically people who weren't important enough to justify the significant expense of a sword, got a spear, which uses the minimum amount of expensive metal. There's plenty of history of effective hunting with spears - and they ARE NOT thrown. Typical length of a spear is 4-6 feet.
Knifes / daggers/ are easily cut and ground from bits of scrap metal - fighting with knives is a messy game, but they're an essential survival tool of course. A knife tied to the end of a stick is a spear! Between two people, attacking somebody with a knife takes little skill or fitness, defending against a knife effectively takes very considerable skill.
For a weapon, the next most straightforward improvised weapon would be a bola. Three weights, three bits of string / wire / rope, tied together.
After that would be a slingshot - easily made from any reasonable strong fabric, ammunition is stones.
I could teach you the basics of fighting with a spear in a few hours. Attacking somebody with a knife in 10 minutes, and defending yourself effectively against a knife in a few weeks.
Using a bola is very easy, and takes little skill, just a bit of thought and practice.
Using a slingshot is a matter of a few hours or days of practice, but is fairly intuitive.
It would take a lot of skill and time to make an effective crossbow.
Incidentally, making a bodgers lathe is pretty straightforward: http://www.greenwoodworker.co.uk/Archive.htm Where I live, up until maybe 60 years ago, people used to just go out into the woods with an axe, saw and some rope, and come back a at the end of the day loaded up with chairlegs.
G
A crossbow is a reasonably precise bit of machinery, needing reasonable manufacturing precision as well as storing enough energy to take your fingers off it if fails whilst cocked. That may be a plot device you can use ! You'd really not struggle if pulling any aeroplane apart to find control pushrods of one sort or another than could do a reasonable impression of a crossbow bolt. I doubt you'd find them in the seat.
The simplest weapon I know that is easy to manufacture and use is a spear. A spear, contrary to popular opinion, is in most variations not a throwing weapon. Basically it's a stick with a knife on the end of it, and the techniques of using a spear are very similar to those for a longsword. Historically people who weren't important enough to justify the significant expense of a sword, got a spear, which uses the minimum amount of expensive metal. There's plenty of history of effective hunting with spears - and they ARE NOT thrown. Typical length of a spear is 4-6 feet.
Knifes / daggers/ are easily cut and ground from bits of scrap metal - fighting with knives is a messy game, but they're an essential survival tool of course. A knife tied to the end of a stick is a spear! Between two people, attacking somebody with a knife takes little skill or fitness, defending against a knife effectively takes very considerable skill.
For a weapon, the next most straightforward improvised weapon would be a bola. Three weights, three bits of string / wire / rope, tied together.
After that would be a slingshot - easily made from any reasonable strong fabric, ammunition is stones.
I could teach you the basics of fighting with a spear in a few hours. Attacking somebody with a knife in 10 minutes, and defending yourself effectively against a knife in a few weeks.
Using a bola is very easy, and takes little skill, just a bit of thought and practice.
Using a slingshot is a matter of a few hours or days of practice, but is fairly intuitive.
It would take a lot of skill and time to make an effective crossbow.
Incidentally, making a bodgers lathe is pretty straightforward: http://www.greenwoodworker.co.uk/Archive.htm Where I live, up until maybe 60 years ago, people used to just go out into the woods with an axe, saw and some rope, and come back a at the end of the day loaded up with chairlegs.
G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 23rd May 2015 at 23:00.
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Thanks for the info. My problem is that the PAX will have to deal with people that wear plate armor, carry spears, swords, knives and crossbows and know how to use them. Somehow, the PAX have to survive at least one engagement without being totally slaughtered.
The PAX, at this point, have spent a few months learning to hunt with spears, knives and are familiar with them - if not fully experienced.
Luckily for the PAX, there is one grizzled Iraq veteran who can train them in the basics. But, they are realistic about what they can achieve with limited training (weeks, not months before they are attacked).
They have to use their advantages (the plane, technology, defending) to deal with an attack they know is coming.
They will be able to make gunpowder where they are, but they won't do that before they are attacked. They also won't be able to set up a distillery before being attacked. Of course, they do have some Jet A fuel left...
There are fairly simple wooden designs for a crossbow on the Internet. I'm not sure what else would be effective against plate armor. I think they could build 5-6 crossbows and using them, with other defensive means, could repel the attack. I like the idea of the bola, I hadn't thought of that.
BTW, I just thought of using the snubber that holds the overhead bins. Is that a dampened piston with a SS shaft going into a aluminum body or something? If I separate those parts, and use the SS shaft, do I have my bolt? There must be a lot of those on the plane.
The PAX, at this point, have spent a few months learning to hunt with spears, knives and are familiar with them - if not fully experienced.
Luckily for the PAX, there is one grizzled Iraq veteran who can train them in the basics. But, they are realistic about what they can achieve with limited training (weeks, not months before they are attacked).
They have to use their advantages (the plane, technology, defending) to deal with an attack they know is coming.
They will be able to make gunpowder where they are, but they won't do that before they are attacked. They also won't be able to set up a distillery before being attacked. Of course, they do have some Jet A fuel left...
There are fairly simple wooden designs for a crossbow on the Internet. I'm not sure what else would be effective against plate armor. I think they could build 5-6 crossbows and using them, with other defensive means, could repel the attack. I like the idea of the bola, I hadn't thought of that.
BTW, I just thought of using the snubber that holds the overhead bins. Is that a dampened piston with a SS shaft going into a aluminum body or something? If I separate those parts, and use the SS shaft, do I have my bolt? There must be a lot of those on the plane.
Having been certificating airliner galleys until recently (not Boeing though), I can hopefully shed a bit more light on the plumbing. It is designed to operate at 40psi, but is designed to take 125psi when being refilled and is static tested to 188psi. Ultimate burst pressure is supposedly 250psi, but they will take more... 
. All potable water hoses were PTFE lined and reinforced with stainless braiding, whilst waste hoses were reinforced silicone. Rigid pipes and unions were stainless steel.
The water heaters I used were four litres capacity, with a stainless steel reservoir. They have pressure relief valves and generally don't heat water above 88°C on electrical power due to the drop in water boiling temperature at 8000ft cabin altitude.
A B777 size aircraft could have easily have six or more galleys with plumbing for hot water boilers, beverage makers, coffee makers, espresso/cappuccino makers and steam ovens (Google 'airliner galley inserts').
If you need to get a higher pressure, wrap the boiler with steel wire. Look up 'flash steam' for high power steam systems with small boilers.
If you can get them out, the engines and airframe will contain thousands of bolts and studs from which tools and weapons could be made. Also, on the subject of weapons, if you have a hydraulic cylinder, some jet fuel and oxygen (bottled or generated) plus a means of making a spark, you can make one hell of a cannon!
With all the aerofoils or curved surfaces that are available (slats, flaps, control surfaces & bits of interior trim) why not build a wind turbine? You could make a peristaltic pump or motor out of a wheel and an inner tube (there must be a bicycle in most airliner holds) as some Scottish crofters did on a TV programme (The Great Egg Race).
BBC - Archive - The Great Egg Race - Cracking feats of engineering
A visit to an aircraft breakers would be a good idea to get an idea of what is available. Googling B777 suppliers will yield photos giving an idea of what is in its sub-assemblies.
. All potable water hoses were PTFE lined and reinforced with stainless braiding, whilst waste hoses were reinforced silicone. Rigid pipes and unions were stainless steel.The water heaters I used were four litres capacity, with a stainless steel reservoir. They have pressure relief valves and generally don't heat water above 88°C on electrical power due to the drop in water boiling temperature at 8000ft cabin altitude.
A B777 size aircraft could have easily have six or more galleys with plumbing for hot water boilers, beverage makers, coffee makers, espresso/cappuccino makers and steam ovens (Google 'airliner galley inserts').
If you need to get a higher pressure, wrap the boiler with steel wire. Look up 'flash steam' for high power steam systems with small boilers.
If you can get them out, the engines and airframe will contain thousands of bolts and studs from which tools and weapons could be made. Also, on the subject of weapons, if you have a hydraulic cylinder, some jet fuel and oxygen (bottled or generated) plus a means of making a spark, you can make one hell of a cannon!
With all the aerofoils or curved surfaces that are available (slats, flaps, control surfaces & bits of interior trim) why not build a wind turbine? You could make a peristaltic pump or motor out of a wheel and an inner tube (there must be a bicycle in most airliner holds) as some Scottish crofters did on a TV programme (The Great Egg Race).
BBC - Archive - The Great Egg Race - Cracking feats of engineering
A visit to an aircraft breakers would be a good idea to get an idea of what is available. Googling B777 suppliers will yield photos giving an idea of what is in its sub-assemblies.
Last edited by Mechta; 24th May 2015 at 23:39. Reason: Added cannon
I still find the crossbow an odd choice of weapon. A longbow is much easier to make if there's access to appropriate woods. and with some good training, more effective on every level (greater range, greater penetration, greater fire rate). The *only* advantage of a crossbow is that it can be operated by an untrained halfwit (or Frenchman, as they called them at Agincourt).
Swords, daggers, spears are effective against armour, because armour has gaps, and any such conflict occurs at close range. Whilst the tradition is much stronger in the east today, there are global traditions of martial arts designed for use against armed and armoured opponents. Classical Jiu Jitsu certainly does that, and here in Europe the texts that survive by Fiore, Ringeck, Silver - all describe such systems here. To a lesser extent, Philipino escrima does the same also - lesser because it's much more about dealing with bladed weapons than it is about dealing with armour.
Have you got a local western martial arts school, or traditional Jiu Jitsu dojo you can go and do a bit of learning from? In terms of your pax - in my experience at-least 1 in 20 of most populations have done significant martial arts training so a few JiuJitsuka of teaching standard, or an expert Escrimador isn't an unreasonable proposition. Neither needs any advanced engineering skill to manufacture weapons. Judo, if you were unaware, is just a sport derivative of Jiu Jitsu, and contains techniques perfectly valid against armour, although probably not against most weapons.
Incidentally, are you aware that the book you're writing already got published in 1874 under the title "The mysterious island". Not, in my opinion, Jules Verne's best book by a long way, but he was basically writing the same plot as you are by the sound of it.
G
Swords, daggers, spears are effective against armour, because armour has gaps, and any such conflict occurs at close range. Whilst the tradition is much stronger in the east today, there are global traditions of martial arts designed for use against armed and armoured opponents. Classical Jiu Jitsu certainly does that, and here in Europe the texts that survive by Fiore, Ringeck, Silver - all describe such systems here. To a lesser extent, Philipino escrima does the same also - lesser because it's much more about dealing with bladed weapons than it is about dealing with armour.
Have you got a local western martial arts school, or traditional Jiu Jitsu dojo you can go and do a bit of learning from? In terms of your pax - in my experience at-least 1 in 20 of most populations have done significant martial arts training so a few JiuJitsuka of teaching standard, or an expert Escrimador isn't an unreasonable proposition. Neither needs any advanced engineering skill to manufacture weapons. Judo, if you were unaware, is just a sport derivative of Jiu Jitsu, and contains techniques perfectly valid against armour, although probably not against most weapons.
Incidentally, are you aware that the book you're writing already got published in 1874 under the title "The mysterious island". Not, in my opinion, Jules Verne's best book by a long way, but he was basically writing the same plot as you are by the sound of it.
G
With regard to pressure vessels, the B777 has 14 tyres each pressurized to 200+psi. There's a fair bit of stored energy for you already.
If you filled the tyre with water, and were to rig up some means of passing hot air from a fire through the wheel hub, water in the tyre would eventually boil. Don't try this at home!
Any sealable metal, ceramic or hard plastic container filled with fuel and oxygen has the potential of making a land or claymore mine if you use a battery and a pressure switch to create a spark inside. Alternatively, you could trigger them remotely, as there is no shortage of wire in an airliner. Your Iraq veteran will have seen IEDs or been briefed on them to know what is needed.
If you can find where uni-directional carbon or glass fibre is used in the structure, you have potential longbow material, There are 10 tons of Carbon fibre in a B777, so some of it should be useful if you can cut and shape it.
This may be a useful resource for who supplies what for the B777:Boeing 777 - program supplier guide
If you filled the tyre with water, and were to rig up some means of passing hot air from a fire through the wheel hub, water in the tyre would eventually boil. Don't try this at home!
Any sealable metal, ceramic or hard plastic container filled with fuel and oxygen has the potential of making a land or claymore mine if you use a battery and a pressure switch to create a spark inside. Alternatively, you could trigger them remotely, as there is no shortage of wire in an airliner. Your Iraq veteran will have seen IEDs or been briefed on them to know what is needed.
If you can find where uni-directional carbon or glass fibre is used in the structure, you have potential longbow material, There are 10 tons of Carbon fibre in a B777, so some of it should be useful if you can cut and shape it.
This may be a useful resource for who supplies what for the B777:Boeing 777 - program supplier guide
Last edited by Mechta; 24th May 2015 at 09:10.
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In response to Mechta
re: tyres
That's a novel way to build a steam engine! Not sure how it could be modified to continuously supply steam. That is my ultimate goal. Maybe it is used to store steam energy from another source. But if it doesn't have a relief valve, then it will go kaboom if you're not careful.
re: IED
Thanks for reminding me to use the oxygen as an oxidizer for a more powerful explosion.
re: carbon fiber
Yes, I'm hoping some of the panels in the plane can lend themselves to things like bows or maybe a small catapult.
re: plumbing
Thanks for all the details! I've been wondering about that for a long time. I can see the elements exist for making some form of steam boiler and/or cannons/bombs.
In response to Genghis:
re: crossbow vs longbow:
Based on my research, the longbow, while much easier to make and more lethal at longer ranges, requires way to much training. The English were such good longbowmen because they had years and years of practice. The crossbow is the fastest, most lethal weapon at a distance of 10-20 yards that requires limited experience to shoot. Especially against armor. Sure, you can get lucky with a spear from that distance. BTW, as I mentioned spears are being used, I just want something more sophisticated.
re: martial arts
Yes, I fully expect that someone will be training the PAX in these skills. However, it takes time to learn them well enough to defend yourself successfully, but thanks for reminding me to mention it as part of the "plan" for the defense force.
re: plot
I haven't revealed much, so I can understand why you might think it related. But the island is not "mysterious" in any way shape or form. This isn't an episode of "Lost".
re: tyres
That's a novel way to build a steam engine! Not sure how it could be modified to continuously supply steam. That is my ultimate goal. Maybe it is used to store steam energy from another source. But if it doesn't have a relief valve, then it will go kaboom if you're not careful.
re: IED
Thanks for reminding me to use the oxygen as an oxidizer for a more powerful explosion.
re: carbon fiber
Yes, I'm hoping some of the panels in the plane can lend themselves to things like bows or maybe a small catapult.
re: plumbing
Thanks for all the details! I've been wondering about that for a long time. I can see the elements exist for making some form of steam boiler and/or cannons/bombs.
In response to Genghis:
re: crossbow vs longbow:
Based on my research, the longbow, while much easier to make and more lethal at longer ranges, requires way to much training. The English were such good longbowmen because they had years and years of practice. The crossbow is the fastest, most lethal weapon at a distance of 10-20 yards that requires limited experience to shoot. Especially against armor. Sure, you can get lucky with a spear from that distance. BTW, as I mentioned spears are being used, I just want something more sophisticated.
re: martial arts
Yes, I fully expect that someone will be training the PAX in these skills. However, it takes time to learn them well enough to defend yourself successfully, but thanks for reminding me to mention it as part of the "plan" for the defense force.
re: plot
I haven't revealed much, so I can understand why you might think it related. But the island is not "mysterious" in any way shape or form. This isn't an episode of "Lost".
http://images.flightstore.co.uk/imag...9-08429600.jpg
Looks to me that the transponder control is the small box just above the blank panel near the bottom on the right hand side. In which case, it's a case of dial each number in - marginally more time consuming. The range of numbers available for each digit is 0-7 (it's an octal numbering system). Something like this:-
Best guess on that unit - turn the bottom left knob to STBY, use the big middle knob to dial in the four digits, then back to XPDR, or more likely to the TA/RA (Traffic Advisory Resolution Advisory) setting which integrates it with TCAS (Terminal Collision Avoidance System).
Control units vary a little - here's a picture of the Garmin box in the aeroplane I was flying yesterday..
That one, you just press the four numbers. But that's a GA unit, airliners tend to be more integrated and we don't fly with TCAS in most baby aeroplanes, whilst it's mandatory in airliners.
G
Looks to me that the transponder control is the small box just above the blank panel near the bottom on the right hand side. In which case, it's a case of dial each number in - marginally more time consuming. The range of numbers available for each digit is 0-7 (it's an octal numbering system). Something like this:-
Best guess on that unit - turn the bottom left knob to STBY, use the big middle knob to dial in the four digits, then back to XPDR, or more likely to the TA/RA (Traffic Advisory Resolution Advisory) setting which integrates it with TCAS (Terminal Collision Avoidance System).
Control units vary a little - here's a picture of the Garmin box in the aeroplane I was flying yesterday..
That one, you just press the four numbers. But that's a GA unit, airliners tend to be more integrated and we don't fly with TCAS in most baby aeroplanes, whilst it's mandatory in airliners.
G
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I think I found it on the pedestal. You use a rotary knob to select the appropriate code:
Boeing 777: Air Traffic Control Transponder (ATC) & Traffic Collision Avoidance System (TCAS)
Thanks for the replies.
Boeing 777: Air Traffic Control Transponder (ATC) & Traffic Collision Avoidance System (TCAS)
Thanks for the replies.
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something on the central console
The APU generator supplies 120 KVA electrical power at any altitude.
The left main fuel tank must contain a minimum of 950 pounds (430 kg) of fuel to start and operate the APU for one hour. The APU uses 675 lb (306 kg) of fuel for each hour of APU operation after the first hour.
The left main fuel tank must contain a minimum of 950 pounds (430 kg) of fuel to start and operate the APU for one hour. The APU uses 675 lb (306 kg) of fuel for each hour of APU operation after the first hour.
The RAT generator supplies 7.5 kva of ac power to the two center TRUs. The RAT GCU monitors and controls the output of the RAT. The TRUs change the ac power into 28v dc power
So the RAT would be your best choice of power.
As for ditching close to a beach, i don't think that anyone would try this with the gear down!
Genghis/kenpimental
That's certainly where the controller sits but I'd point out that the exact choice of panel is a customer option - I certainly don't recognise the one in the flight deck overview image, and I don't recognise the one that kenpimental has provided a link to. All our 777s (200s and 300s) have a different panel design, they have a small keyboard for number entry, so you punch the code in rather than dial and FWIW on ours there's no need to select STBY before changing code.
Looks to me that the transponder control is the small box just above the blank panel near the bottom on the right hand side. In which case, it's a case of dial each number in
Last edited by wiggy; 5th Jun 2015 at 21:38.
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Now that I have more time, I've gone back to my book and I'm doing a major rewrite for various reasons. I wonder if some of those that helped me in the past are still able to do so. As a reminder, I'm writing a book on an American Airlines 777-200ER that survives a ditching and winds up on a beach. Most of the crew survive and the plane is in two pieces (so never flying again), but there were no major fires. There is a "flying spanner" on board, who knows what parts of the 777 can be used for different solutions to survival problems. This is a work of alternate history and does involve a trip to the past - so the island is basically uninhabited and there are no modern support systems (no rescue teams, no satellites, no comms - other than what they can create). The people are on their own - with a 777 to dismember and whatever is in cargo/luggage.
Questions:
1) Are there more than one Auxiliary Survival Kit? Reference on a 777?
2) I need to create a water distiller, I’m wondering if the AC units on the plane could function as such. I would remove the evaporation coils (or grid?) and pipe steam through it while immersed in colder water.
thanks!
ken
Questions:
1) Are there more than one Auxiliary Survival Kit? Reference on a 777?
2) I need to create a water distiller, I’m wondering if the AC units on the plane could function as such. I would remove the evaporation coils (or grid?) and pipe steam through it while immersed in colder water.
thanks!
ken
Are there more than one Auxiliary Survival Kit?
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Thanks for the response!
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