Ethiopean 787 fire at Heathrow
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Presume there is going to be need to control internal and external temp and humidity if a composite repair is done too (hence the scaffolding frames going up?) that ain't gonna be cheap through the UK winter!
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Looks like forward scaffold is for staging internal components in and out of the aircraft.
The aft scaffold is for conducting structural repairs.
They are building a regular tent city there behind the aircraft.
The aft scaffold is for conducting structural repairs.
They are building a regular tent city there behind the aircraft.
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Fenland787
You could not be more wrong about the control of the temp & humidity for the final stages of the repaires. I would put the cost of doing so at £1500-2500.
The big tent is about keeping the workers dry and walm during the preparation work.
The big tent is about keeping the workers dry and walm during the preparation work.
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Originally Posted by AandC
You could not be more wrong about the control of the temp & humidity for the final stages of the repaires. I would put the cost of doing so at £1500-2500.
No figures in here but it is interesting to consider some of the prior commentary.
Boeing Switches To Repair Mode After 787 Fire
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Nice article, and recommended reading - even if it only summarises the questions rather than providing answers. The possibility of performing a patch repair to allow for a ferry flight to Boeing's facilities for a more permanent solution is an intriguing one.
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Romulus
You will note that I said that was for the final post cure part of the repair and adressing the temp & humidity issues, as with all things composite the real work is in the preparation...........and you won't be doing that on the cheap !!
Last edited by A and C; 15th Oct 2013 at 21:15.
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Nice article, and recommended reading - even if it only summarises the questions rather than providing answers. The possibility of performing a patch repair to allow for a ferry flight to Boeing's facilities for a more permanent solution is an intriguing one
Cost, I suspect there is some negotiations between Honeywell, Boeing, Ethiopian and the insurance company with Ethiopian getting some kind of guarantee of performance of the aircraft after the Boeing repair. I would doubt that Ethiopian would accept flying around a multi-thousand pound weight penalty for doubled panels to repair the damage on a new aircraft for the rest of its life.
So far other than the external pictures we have no real idea of the actual structural damage to the fuselage and the heat damage to the rest of the aircraft. We can guess from the number of containers, tents and scaffolding that this is going to be a major time consuming and costly repair.
There were a couple 787 tail barrel sections parked outside the office building today. Comparing those to the published pictures of the Ethiopian airplane, notice forward of the aft door, there are a few windows and then a 'missing' window? The 'missing' window is the break where the fuselage pieces are joined. At least externally, the worst of the fire damage appears to be aft of that joint.
Again, not knowing what the internal damage looks like - I'm leaning towards the most cost effective fix being to replace that tail barrel section. Either on site at Heathrow, or if the GSE is too complex, a temp fix to get it back to Everett or Charleston where the tooling is available.
Even if it's a $100+ million price tag, compared to a new 787 it would still likely make economic sense (recall the A380 $150 million/18 month repair bill after the Qantas turbine failure)
Again, not knowing what the internal damage looks like - I'm leaning towards the most cost effective fix being to replace that tail barrel section. Either on site at Heathrow, or if the GSE is too complex, a temp fix to get it back to Everett or Charleston where the tooling is available.
Even if it's a $100+ million price tag, compared to a new 787 it would still likely make economic sense (recall the A380 $150 million/18 month repair bill after the Qantas turbine failure)
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So far other than the external pictures we have no real idea of the actual structural damage to the fuselage and the heat damage to the rest of the aircraft. We can guess from the number of containers, tents and scaffolding that this is going to be a major time consuming and costly repair.
Everyone is agonizing over the structural repair feasibility and some are speculating that the aircraft will be made ferryable and flown elsewhere.
If they were going to ferry the aircraft, you would see a much smaller operation. It doesn't have to be pretty to ferry an aircraft. A ferryable aircraft does not have to meet full airworthiness standards. It merely needs to be demonstrated to the applicable airworthiness authorities that it is capable of the ferry mission.
The interior of the aircraft is going to be stripped from the aircraft and processed in those tents or in an industrial setting as appropriate to the component. Actual fire damaged components are going to be scrapped and replaced, not overhauled. Same for interior furnishings that are not recoverable due to smoke damage. Part of the delay in starting the repairs had to be the process of gathering the known replacement items.
When the interior is out, and the exterior preparations made, the structural repair will commence. There will be sufficient design engineering staff on site to advise and coordinate on any unexpected discoveries.
I would be personally surprised if the structural repair lasts more than 60 days, and by ~90 days the aircraft should be back together and ready for flight, but I wouldn't claim to be an expert on the subject. I've only been involved in aviation for half a century.
There were a couple 787 tail barrel sections parked outside the office building today. Comparing those to the published pictures of the Ethiopian airplane, notice forward of the aft door, there are a few windows and then a 'missing' window? The 'missing' window is the break where the fuselage pieces are joined. At least externally, the worst of the fire damage appears to be aft of that joint.
Again, not knowing what the internal damage looks like - I'm leaning towards the most cost effective fix being to replace that tail barrel section. Either on site at Heathrow, or if the GSE is too complex, a temp fix to get it back to Everett or Charleston where the tooling is available.
Even if it's a $100+ million price tag, compared to a new 787 it would still likely make economic sense (recall the A380 $150 million/18 month repair bill after the Qantas turbine failure)
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1 Lump or 2 ?
tdracer
Just looking back at the original photos of the incident and what tdracer has confirmed, that the missing window was a join. It does appear that the area of damage extends forward of this joint, and you can see a 'band' of where the charring hasn't penetrated the outer layer - presumably where either the reinforcement ring is. Given this is a highly stressed area, could they be looking at 2 sections "if" they end up replacing rather than repairing....?
Either way, it should be fun (not) for them working under canvas if the hard winter forcasts are correct.
Comparing those to the published pictures of the Ethiopian airplane, notice forward of the aft door, there are a few windows and then a 'missing' window? The 'missing' window is the break where the fuselage pieces are joined. At least externally, the worst of the fire damage appears to be aft of that joint.
Just looking back at the original photos of the incident and what tdracer has confirmed, that the missing window was a join. It does appear that the area of damage extends forward of this joint, and you can see a 'band' of where the charring hasn't penetrated the outer layer - presumably where either the reinforcement ring is. Given this is a highly stressed area, could they be looking at 2 sections "if" they end up replacing rather than repairing....?
Either way, it should be fun (not) for them working under canvas if the hard winter forcasts are correct.
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A lot of negativity !
I'm very glad that most of the people posting above don't work for me, the negative attitude is remarkable.
It will be interesting to see the course of action that Boeing take with the aircraft, I fear that the metalcentric lobby has won the day if the whole fuselage section is going to be replaced but I guess we will never know if this is driven by political or technical reasons.
As to working in a "tent" that is no problem as long as you double skin it and have the appropriate heating rigged up.........done that...... No drama.
It will be interesting to see the course of action that Boeing take with the aircraft, I fear that the metalcentric lobby has won the day if the whole fuselage section is going to be replaced but I guess we will never know if this is driven by political or technical reasons.
As to working in a "tent" that is no problem as long as you double skin it and have the appropriate heating rigged up.........done that...... No drama.
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I take it as given this exercise is more than just a repair/return to service to ET-AOP.
It is also Boeing's experiment in major structural repair of composites. As such, the first objective may see some overkill.
It is also Boeing's experiment in major structural repair of composites. As such, the first objective may see some overkill.
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Apparently Boeing has a tech team who goes around and does major repairs in the field. National Geographic had a show which documented the replacement of an aft pressure bulkhead on a 767 by removing the aft sections. I found it pretty interesting. Course, on this one you can't use 5,000,000 rivets on this to put it all back together, but generically it wouldn't be the first time that they'd split a hull at a seam, done work, and put it all back together somewhere other than at the factory.
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From an industry point of view everyone will be interested - it is not a Boeing only problem, A-350's will be in the same boat. An effective repair and back to flight will quieten the noise from the peanut gallery about composites. Already, thanks to the prolonged flame throwing ELT strapped right against the composite hull, it is apparent that composites will not irretrievably combust.
This mishap although unwelcome could in the longer term become a positive.