British Aircraft Maintenance On The Decline
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British Aircraft Maintenance On The Decline
After a recent spate of MRO's making employees redundant within the past year,and another major swiss MRO having set up a maintenance facility in Malta, i cannot help but feel that the cost of the British Engineer has either become an expensive commodity or that these so called MRO's Value our Cheaper Foreign National Counter parts.
I am not saying the British are the worlds best Aircraft Engineers by no means, but the level of training an individual has to go through to obtain the basic licence and then jump through various hoops within an UK145 organisation too maintain ones approval and keep recency are perhaps some of the most demanding within the Q.A world.
It was reported in the Independent News Paper that certain individuals employed at the Maltese Maintenance Facility were ex and current Dock Yard Workers, and others from Non-Specific Aviation background.
And it is very obvious that the cost base may determine a companies decision too move out of the U.K, but that does'nt make it right.
Perhaps it is just me complaining and having a moan, but when costs have been cut too the bone and the Company wants more cost savings..
.......................................would you be willing too compromise safety.
This is not a Nationalistic Swipe at our European Brothers/Sisters, just i am interested in peoples views on the decline on yet another British Institution..That being the British Engineer.
I am not saying the British are the worlds best Aircraft Engineers by no means, but the level of training an individual has to go through to obtain the basic licence and then jump through various hoops within an UK145 organisation too maintain ones approval and keep recency are perhaps some of the most demanding within the Q.A world.
It was reported in the Independent News Paper that certain individuals employed at the Maltese Maintenance Facility were ex and current Dock Yard Workers, and others from Non-Specific Aviation background.
And it is very obvious that the cost base may determine a companies decision too move out of the U.K, but that does'nt make it right.
Perhaps it is just me complaining and having a moan, but when costs have been cut too the bone and the Company wants more cost savings..
.......................................would you be willing too compromise safety.
This is not a Nationalistic Swipe at our European Brothers/Sisters, just i am interested in peoples views on the decline on yet another British Institution..That being the British Engineer.
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It's not so much the cost of the engineer but the reduced costs of the others, in this case the dockyard workers. When I was at ASTA they employed ex car workers etc, some basic training, and away they went. When I was at BAMC they employed ex mine and car workers, some training and away they went.
The basic engineering skills were there, with some specific training they were let loose on a/c under the supervision of the engineers. Of course these people were employed on a lot less than the experienced mechanic/technician. So the cost base was reduced.
Don't get me wrong some of these guys were very skilled indeed. Those that weren't were in the seat shop etc.
So is the cost of an engineer proportional to the safety level, quite possibly only time and a few major incidents will tell.
Would I be willing to compromise on safety, absolutely not and never will or have done knowingly. I've made mistakes of course as I am human, and you learn from them.
The basic engineering skills were there, with some specific training they were let loose on a/c under the supervision of the engineers. Of course these people were employed on a lot less than the experienced mechanic/technician. So the cost base was reduced.
Don't get me wrong some of these guys were very skilled indeed. Those that weren't were in the seat shop etc.
So is the cost of an engineer proportional to the safety level, quite possibly only time and a few major incidents will tell.
Would I be willing to compromise on safety, absolutely not and never will or have done knowingly. I've made mistakes of course as I am human, and you learn from them.
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Employing cheap, in comparison to aircraft trained personnel that is, staff is fine...in theory... and is far from exclusive to the company or location mentioned.
The problem that arises however is one of cost when it all goes rather wrong....see paintstrippers in Shannon I seem to recall....and "how to scrap a Tornado...or two..or three...etc" at St.Athan as a couple of classic examples.
The problem that arises however is one of cost when it all goes rather wrong....see paintstrippers in Shannon I seem to recall....and "how to scrap a Tornado...or two..or three...etc" at St.Athan as a couple of classic examples.
Unfortunately EASA & most of the NAA's (including the CAA) are gutless,commercially led arbiters of not a lot.Having seen examples of serious safety non compliance issues highlighted & not acted upon I have no faith.
The bottom line is cost & while you must have profit to have a job,its gone to far - Knowing the cost & not the value springs to mind.
Have a search on google about the stink regarding the quality of 'of shore' maintenance on QANTAS aircraft.
The bottom line is cost & while you must have profit to have a job,its gone to far - Knowing the cost & not the value springs to mind.
Have a search on google about the stink regarding the quality of 'of shore' maintenance on QANTAS aircraft.
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And just as EASA may be gutless so are engineers. Gutless bunch of prima donna's chasing their own pot of gold rather than presenting a common front.
Who signs off all these below par aircraft?
Your finished, the end is near and still you don't grasp the bigger picture.
Who signs off all these below par aircraft?
Your finished, the end is near and still you don't grasp the bigger picture.
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Dang I always get discouraged everytime I read threads as such and I'm just at the begining of my career.
Can't you be a bit more positive guys?
Why don't you mention the bright side of aircrafts engineering instead of pulling the wool over our eyes.
Can't you be a bit more positive guys?
Why don't you mention the bright side of aircrafts engineering instead of pulling the wool over our eyes.
No wool being pulled me old,its a great career,I've had a ball & the potential is still there.The regulators lacks of balls has always been a perennial 'Elephant In The Room'.As regulatory entities I don't think EASA or the NAA's do enough,but have friends in both who are good people.
I don't know what Safety Concern is on about,he appears to have gone off on a recipricol,mind you it's handy he know's every single engineer in the industry & has reviewed all the releases they've ever signed,so is able to give us the benefit of his 'informed' opinion.
I don't know what Safety Concern is on about,he appears to have gone off on a recipricol,mind you it's handy he know's every single engineer in the industry & has reviewed all the releases they've ever signed,so is able to give us the benefit of his 'informed' opinion.
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you see woptb you are part of the problem.
you all gob off about how bad it is, how things are going down the drain, how nobody has balls except you. All engineers are doing the job properly, you even mention some rubbish in Australia.
Yet just answer the question. Who signed off the poor standards you mentioned in your post?
you all gob off about how bad it is, how things are going down the drain, how nobody has balls except you. All engineers are doing the job properly, you even mention some rubbish in Australia.
Yet just answer the question. Who signed off the poor standards you mentioned in your post?
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This post was fielded out there into the big blue yonder (woptb) just too appreciate the feedback from various other engineers doing what he or she does on a daily basis. I have no axe to grind and only have interest in the industry as a whole.
And well what i meant by safety concerns is that as profits become so much more important, does this mean safety may be compromised.
I used too work for an airline that shipped the big white birds down to GAMCO too undergo maintenance including lists of ADD's for a scheduled clean up, but the poor beast came out with Same ADD's and not all of the work being completed...But the Aircraft was still signed off, now there's a suprise.
I don't claim too represent any other opinion other than my own, and i may not claim too have all the facts but i do have a very accurate source, that being somebody on the inside of a recent new maintenance facility and so kind of trust my source.
Again this thread is just too get a feel of how it really is out there.
For all the newcomers coming into the industry, do not be put off by this post at all, i have been in the industry for only 10 years, not long by anybody's standards, but i can vouch as many others may, that i do not regret one day, and have a passion for what i do, and i hope you guys and girls feel the same.
I suppose the common theme too this thread is perhaps not just aircraft related but in essence a global problem within all industries, i.e. when the going gets tough, foreign owned companies pull away from the U.K due to the high labour cost, Protectionism, which our previous Administrators and the current two vowed would not allow such events to happen, by way of delegation and negotiation within the business world.
On a Final note it is good to so far gauge the general consensus is that some are not willing too compromise themselves with respect to safety and quite right too, and to those individuals i thank you for maintaining the professionalism and integrity within the industry.
And well what i meant by safety concerns is that as profits become so much more important, does this mean safety may be compromised.
I used too work for an airline that shipped the big white birds down to GAMCO too undergo maintenance including lists of ADD's for a scheduled clean up, but the poor beast came out with Same ADD's and not all of the work being completed...But the Aircraft was still signed off, now there's a suprise.
I don't claim too represent any other opinion other than my own, and i may not claim too have all the facts but i do have a very accurate source, that being somebody on the inside of a recent new maintenance facility and so kind of trust my source.
Again this thread is just too get a feel of how it really is out there.
For all the newcomers coming into the industry, do not be put off by this post at all, i have been in the industry for only 10 years, not long by anybody's standards, but i can vouch as many others may, that i do not regret one day, and have a passion for what i do, and i hope you guys and girls feel the same.
I suppose the common theme too this thread is perhaps not just aircraft related but in essence a global problem within all industries, i.e. when the going gets tough, foreign owned companies pull away from the U.K due to the high labour cost, Protectionism, which our previous Administrators and the current two vowed would not allow such events to happen, by way of delegation and negotiation within the business world.
On a Final note it is good to so far gauge the general consensus is that some are not willing too compromise themselves with respect to safety and quite right too, and to those individuals i thank you for maintaining the professionalism and integrity within the industry.
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I don't claim too represent any other opinion other than my own, and i may not claim too have all the facts but i do have a very accurate source, that being somebody on the inside of a recent new maintenance facility and so kind of trust my source.
Based on the post itself you seem to be claiming that standards have dropped but when pushed back off.
SPINELESS.
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I thought i would never De-base my level too that of Safety Concerns, but Flightmech. Well Put, Dear Chap! Well put
This individual Obviously does not have the capacity to involve themselves in intelligent debate without using purile comments that do not assist in anyway what so ever..
Please Safety Concerns Take your childish Comments and go seek Professional help!!
That way when you feel you might add something constructive too the thread, then maybe people might want too listen.
Again you are entitled too your opinion, but dear chap, please do Pprune a favour and other members on this site and keep your niave narrow minded opinion of yours inside that Purile venomous mind that god gave you to use for more intelligent debate ( Which you clearly cannot grasp the idea of just yet, but i do look forward too maybe something intelligent soon).
I thank you.
This individual Obviously does not have the capacity to involve themselves in intelligent debate without using purile comments that do not assist in anyway what so ever..
Please Safety Concerns Take your childish Comments and go seek Professional help!!
That way when you feel you might add something constructive too the thread, then maybe people might want too listen.
Again you are entitled too your opinion, but dear chap, please do Pprune a favour and other members on this site and keep your niave narrow minded opinion of yours inside that Purile venomous mind that god gave you to use for more intelligent debate ( Which you clearly cannot grasp the idea of just yet, but i do look forward too maybe something intelligent soon).
I thank you.
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Well we got an answer. The whole thing was about nothing.
Typical engineer. Mountains out of molehills.
As a person having both relatives and colleagues in Malta I find your original post offensive. You want to suggest that the organisations in question are not up to scratch but you haven't got the backbone to say it. Now you are determined to wander off topic.
Then comes woptb with
Why can't you answer the question you pillars of safety. Who signed these things off?
Typical engineer. Mountains out of molehills.
As a person having both relatives and colleagues in Malta I find your original post offensive. You want to suggest that the organisations in question are not up to scratch but you haven't got the backbone to say it. Now you are determined to wander off topic.
Then comes woptb with
Having seen examples of serious safety non compliance issues highlighted & not acted upon I have no faith.
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SafetyConcerns,
Please posess your soul in patience, as I am having to.
I posted and await the webmaster's clearance before it appears.
When it does, you will see that it is appropriate and, Mea Culpa, I now realise that it should have been added here instead of starting a new thread.
Regards to all,
Please posess your soul in patience, as I am having to.
I posted and await the webmaster's clearance before it appears.
When it does, you will see that it is appropriate and, Mea Culpa, I now realise that it should have been added here instead of starting a new thread.
Regards to all,