Arrogant Pilots
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 112
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From: Position info not valid
Met a few arrogant P1s and 2s in my time,also a few arrogant Engs. What annoys me is when people leave the flight deck littered with papers and empty drinking cups when I'm supposed to work in there. Well I'm not cleaning up after you anymore. Your mates can do it before they take the next flight out.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 53
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From: By my keyboard
Why not look at cleaning flight decks from an economic point of view.
Aft of the flight deck door they pay to sit in the seat, so the company foots the cleaning bill.
Fwd of the door the company pays for who sits in the seat, so it is only fair that you tidy your own mess.
Aft of the flight deck door they pay to sit in the seat, so the company foots the cleaning bill.
Fwd of the door the company pays for who sits in the seat, so it is only fair that you tidy your own mess.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 643
Likes: 30
From: Global Vagabond
I guess this thread just confirms that airfolk are normal folk.
They get peed off with workmates
They conform to Maslow's triangle
They recover from bad days
They want positive solutions
They don't fit stereotypes
etc etc.
They get peed off with workmates
They conform to Maslow's triangle
They recover from bad days
They want positive solutions
They don't fit stereotypes
etc etc.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
From: Position info not valid
Thats odd, past seven days nobody has asked me why the f/d hasnt been cleared of newspapers and half empty drinking cups. Is word getting around or are their wives/girlfriends nipping in and clearing up after them like they do at home?
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 144
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From: the real deal
I also have a question:
"Why do some mechanics, particularly older senior ones, think the sun shines out thier (sic) ass when talking to pilots on the flight interphone."
Mr. warty, since your head-up-@rse attitude clearly indicates you are clueless, I will inform you:
Many pilots (myself included) worked their rings off in some sh!tty jobs saving the ca$h to get where they are then followed it up flying in some sh!tty GA jobs too, to work up the hours for the so-called "silver-spoon" lifestyle you ranted about.
You obviously were smoking some pretty good sh!t when you typed out that utter tripe.
You sound like the muttering, festering type who resents anyone whose hands aren't dirty or because they finished high school and/or went to uni but you didn't - "fancy candy-ass College boy......!"
HAHAHA!!! I would hope so, warty, since you claim to be a mechanic, otherwise you should study for your exams a lot harder than you have so far!!!
You are not the only surly grease monkey in the aviation world. There are others who barge into the cockpit as if expecting a fight, don't bother saying "hello" or even mention just what it is they are tinkering with or whether it might take a while.
Snobbery, it is. They do not deign to speak with a soft-handed, white-collar daddy's boy pilot.
They are twits and will usually know full-well they are and cringe accordingly when you turn up later for a beer, having been invited by another engineer, who IS a good bloke, and knows how to get the respect from pilots without even trying.
Others can be dis-arming with merely a word: "G'day."
Incidentally, this is done by being a DECENT BLOKE and may earn you respect in return.
I wonder if you're the @rsehole who used to SLAM the tech-log box against the side of the aircraft when we pulled up.
"Why do some mechanics, particularly older senior ones, think the sun shines out thier (sic) ass when talking to pilots on the flight interphone."
Mr. warty, since your head-up-@rse attitude clearly indicates you are clueless, I will inform you:
Many pilots (myself included) worked their rings off in some sh!tty jobs saving the ca$h to get where they are then followed it up flying in some sh!tty GA jobs too, to work up the hours for the so-called "silver-spoon" lifestyle you ranted about.
You obviously were smoking some pretty good sh!t when you typed out that utter tripe.
You sound like the muttering, festering type who resents anyone whose hands aren't dirty or because they finished high school and/or went to uni but you didn't - "fancy candy-ass College boy......!"
I probably know more about how an aircraft system works than they do
You are not the only surly grease monkey in the aviation world. There are others who barge into the cockpit as if expecting a fight, don't bother saying "hello" or even mention just what it is they are tinkering with or whether it might take a while.
Snobbery, it is. They do not deign to speak with a soft-handed, white-collar daddy's boy pilot.
They are twits and will usually know full-well they are and cringe accordingly when you turn up later for a beer, having been invited by another engineer, who IS a good bloke, and knows how to get the respect from pilots without even trying.
Others can be dis-arming with merely a word: "G'day."
Incidentally, this is done by being a DECENT BLOKE and may earn you respect in return.
I wonder if you're the @rsehole who used to SLAM the tech-log box against the side of the aircraft when we pulled up.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Near LHR
I'm going to sit on the fence on this one, having one foot in each camp. I will say that there are probably more Licenced engineers that are qualified to fly an aeroplane than there are licenced commercial pilots who are qualified to fix them, though.
One exchange I had with a captain ( and I will admit that I'd had a bitch of a day, so wasn't at my diplomatic best ) was when I'd signed off his aircraft against the DDM, only to be told that he wasn't happy, and that his technical opinion was more important than mine because he was the captain.
My response was that nobody would dream of questioning the captains importance, but given the three autopilots that actually fly the aircraft, and it only taking one person to monitor it doing so, I would certainly be debating whether he was necessary. Is it really necessary to have two people watching the aircraft fly itself?
It took a while before the bottom lip started to quiver, but it made the point.
Most pilots that I've come across are great blokes and are only too keen to quiz you on what you're doing to fix it. This isn't out of a desire to question your professionalism or ability, but to understand more about what the switches actually do when the four ringed arm of God moves them.
One exchange I had with a captain ( and I will admit that I'd had a bitch of a day, so wasn't at my diplomatic best ) was when I'd signed off his aircraft against the DDM, only to be told that he wasn't happy, and that his technical opinion was more important than mine because he was the captain.
My response was that nobody would dream of questioning the captains importance, but given the three autopilots that actually fly the aircraft, and it only taking one person to monitor it doing so, I would certainly be debating whether he was necessary. Is it really necessary to have two people watching the aircraft fly itself?
It took a while before the bottom lip started to quiver, but it made the point.
Most pilots that I've come across are great blokes and are only too keen to quiz you on what you're doing to fix it. This isn't out of a desire to question your professionalism or ability, but to understand more about what the switches actually do when the four ringed arm of God moves them.
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: the real deal
engos with attitude....
given the three autopilots that actually fly the aircraft, and it only taking one person to monitor it doing so, I would certainly be debating whether he was necessary.
True, though. Would be better to only spend those moments aboard (just in case) and the rest monitoring from the couch at home.
So he said:
"My opinion over-rides yours."
And your response was:
"Well there are 3 autopilots here, maybe your job is redundant."
Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Did you finish with: "Nah-nah, nah-nah, NAAAAAAAH-naaah..."?
Did you uppercut yourself later on when you realised what a tw@t you'd made of yourself???
The old "pilotless airliners" line again. I can't believe some morons still push that old chestnut around.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 38
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From: following the yellow brick road
Scrubed
you are an arrogant ass, your post is to engineers what wantys first post is to pilots, have you learned nothing from this thread. However wanty has acknowledged that he had a bad day and went over the top. As an engineer I have lots of pilot friends and fly the jumpseat regularly. For an engineer I find this very good as it shows life from the pilots perspective and allows me a little reminder of nav systems in operation as I don'see it everyday and the crew get a chance to ask anything about a system or maint. procedure. A free exchange of info which benefits both pilot and engineer.
Crews and engineers are only people, subject to the same problems and characteristics as the rest of the world.
Sadly on both sides there are some assholes but in the main most are good people.
Scrubed I hope you are one of the good ones.........................;
you are an arrogant ass, your post is to engineers what wantys first post is to pilots, have you learned nothing from this thread. However wanty has acknowledged that he had a bad day and went over the top. As an engineer I have lots of pilot friends and fly the jumpseat regularly. For an engineer I find this very good as it shows life from the pilots perspective and allows me a little reminder of nav systems in operation as I don'see it everyday and the crew get a chance to ask anything about a system or maint. procedure. A free exchange of info which benefits both pilot and engineer.
Crews and engineers are only people, subject to the same problems and characteristics as the rest of the world.
Sadly on both sides there are some assholes but in the main most are good people.
Scrubed I hope you are one of the good ones.........................;
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Like Prop Jocket, I too have a foot in each camp.
What I see from this position is two groups of talented and technical people who have absolutely no understanding of the other.
I regularly hear fellow engineers making generalised statements about pilots and pilots about engineers. These are normally completely inaccurate.
In a perfect world, all engineers should obtain a PPL and all pilots should spend 6 months in the hangar.
The results would be amazing after having "walked a milein the other man's shoes".
BB
What I see from this position is two groups of talented and technical people who have absolutely no understanding of the other.
I regularly hear fellow engineers making generalised statements about pilots and pilots about engineers. These are normally completely inaccurate.
In a perfect world, all engineers should obtain a PPL and all pilots should spend 6 months in the hangar.
The results would be amazing after having "walked a milein the other man's shoes".
BB
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Near LHR
Scrubed,
Oh but I have sat in the sim. I was doing a 737 rating ( self sponsored by the way ) and had done a few hours in the sims just as the naughty people downed the twin towers. I didn't see much point in continuing after that, so I may not be licenced to fly it, but am more than capable of doing so. Could you fix it? Doubt it.
If I may be uncharacteristic and take your bait for a moment, this thread is about arrogant pilots; your post has done nothing but reinforce the opinion that pilots are just that. If you have difficulty with the comprehension of that concept, ask a grown up to help you.
Read my post again. I think you may find that it was a response to a pilot who falls into the camp of arrogance.
The autopilot does fly the aeroplane. If it's bu&&ered you lot won't take it. Explain that away as you claim your salaries for being a pilot and "flying" your airliner. As for calling me a tw@t when you don't know who I am or what I do/have done in life it speaks volumes about you.
the impression I get of you isn't relevant to this forum. However, I will ask you this.....
Are you trying to tell me that they let immature little pr*cks like you fly airliners? God help us.
Rant over.
Oh but I have sat in the sim. I was doing a 737 rating ( self sponsored by the way ) and had done a few hours in the sims just as the naughty people downed the twin towers. I didn't see much point in continuing after that, so I may not be licenced to fly it, but am more than capable of doing so. Could you fix it? Doubt it.
If I may be uncharacteristic and take your bait for a moment, this thread is about arrogant pilots; your post has done nothing but reinforce the opinion that pilots are just that. If you have difficulty with the comprehension of that concept, ask a grown up to help you.
Read my post again. I think you may find that it was a response to a pilot who falls into the camp of arrogance.
The autopilot does fly the aeroplane. If it's bu&&ered you lot won't take it. Explain that away as you claim your salaries for being a pilot and "flying" your airliner. As for calling me a tw@t when you don't know who I am or what I do/have done in life it speaks volumes about you.
the impression I get of you isn't relevant to this forum. However, I will ask you this.....
Are you trying to tell me that they let immature little pr*cks like you fly airliners? God help us.
Rant over.
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: the real deal
As an aside, I believe the saying came from the American Indians and was originally "until you walk a mile in another man's mocasins, you can't imagine the smell..."
Then it became a "do not judge him" thing. But at least if you do judge him all wrong, then at least you have his mocasins and you're a mile away by then...
PJ why so upset? Just because I pointed out the under-lying smugness beneath the thin veneer of your "conciliatory" post?
I guess I don't have much else to say since you still have your head up your @rsse about auto-pilots being more deserving of salary. Interesting you mention the notion of cash, though, as it now appears you also have an issue with who gets paid what and how much more someone else deserves it.
Sounds like you are definitely a closet pilot-issues case.
And you obviously don't know what a CAT IIIB ILS approach is or you wouldn't be mouthing off, especially if you were a passenger and I wuzz the guy in the front, pushing the buttons because even I'M scared of me doing it. At least,in the SIM where everything always seems to fail.
As for me, I once did a little time at the very bottom of the mechanic food chain. Enough to learn that they prefer to be called Aircraft Maintenance Engineers and that they work harder than the pilots whom I occasionally saw strolling casually about with clean hands.... so I changed paths after a week.
But I don't object to the idea of doing some time in the hangars now and then (provided it doesn't cost me any dough!!!!) and learning more about the machines. Sounds like a good idea to me and would help us appreciate each others roles too.
I learned a lot about what I flew from the engos in GA, some of whom also knew how to fly but were admittedly and understandably a little "ham-fisted," unlike we gifted.
I draw the line at baggage handling though, I did enough of that in the old days.
Hey PoopJacket, I'm on a layover next week and planning on getting trashed with two LAME mates who are both very very sick individuals. I'll ask if they know you...
Then it became a "do not judge him" thing. But at least if you do judge him all wrong, then at least you have his mocasins and you're a mile away by then...
PJ why so upset? Just because I pointed out the under-lying smugness beneath the thin veneer of your "conciliatory" post?
I guess I don't have much else to say since you still have your head up your @rsse about auto-pilots being more deserving of salary. Interesting you mention the notion of cash, though, as it now appears you also have an issue with who gets paid what and how much more someone else deserves it.
Sounds like you are definitely a closet pilot-issues case.
And you obviously don't know what a CAT IIIB ILS approach is or you wouldn't be mouthing off, especially if you were a passenger and I wuzz the guy in the front, pushing the buttons because even I'M scared of me doing it. At least,in the SIM where everything always seems to fail.
As for me, I once did a little time at the very bottom of the mechanic food chain. Enough to learn that they prefer to be called Aircraft Maintenance Engineers and that they work harder than the pilots whom I occasionally saw strolling casually about with clean hands.... so I changed paths after a week.
But I don't object to the idea of doing some time in the hangars now and then (provided it doesn't cost me any dough!!!!) and learning more about the machines. Sounds like a good idea to me and would help us appreciate each others roles too.
I learned a lot about what I flew from the engos in GA, some of whom also knew how to fly but were admittedly and understandably a little "ham-fisted," unlike we gifted.
I draw the line at baggage handling though, I did enough of that in the old days.
Hey PoopJacket, I'm on a layover next week and planning on getting trashed with two LAME mates who are both very very sick individuals. I'll ask if they know you...
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
From: melbourne
Scrubed
You sound like the muttering, festering type who resents anyone whose hands aren't dirty or because they finished high school and/or went to uni but you didn't - "fancy candy-ass College boy......!"
Hey scrubed,
Indeed, I actually did finish high school, with honours I might add.Just quietly,I'm an Avionis Lame and don't get my hands dirty too often.Thought since you are getting so personally offensive,I would point out a few things.All those instruments and gadgets you (merely) read,I actually Know not (just) how to read them as you do,but I actually know how they all work internally as well
.Don't forget,when something goes wrong up there with you blokes,you only know how to go thru a checklist pre-prepared for you,by people who by and large, know that you probably can't be trusted to use your own judgement to fix said problem.
Incidentally scrubed,if you would like to know what we are tinkering with as you point out,try reading the tech log.
Wanty.
Hey scrubed,
Indeed, I actually did finish high school, with honours I might add.Just quietly,I'm an Avionis Lame and don't get my hands dirty too often.Thought since you are getting so personally offensive,I would point out a few things.All those instruments and gadgets you (merely) read,I actually Know not (just) how to read them as you do,but I actually know how they all work internally as well
.Don't forget,when something goes wrong up there with you blokes,you only know how to go thru a checklist pre-prepared for you,by people who by and large, know that you probably can't be trusted to use your own judgement to fix said problem. Incidentally scrubed,if you would like to know what we are tinkering with as you point out,try reading the tech log.
Wanty.
Last edited by wanty; 30th May 2005 at 23:04.
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: the real deal
What's an
??? 
What's a
???
Hey Warty, why didn't someone as smart as you say you are write a "pre-prepared"** checklist for the guys in the Sioux City crash to cover a total hydraulics failure?
What did those guys do without someone as clever as you to help them and with only their "own judgement" to rely on?
Who fixed that airplane so well it came apart and put the pilots, crew and passengers in that situation???
See? You speak the sort of garbage as you have above and it can all be turned around and thrown back in your face.
Why are you trying to get under the skin of pilots? You don't like being a member of the team? Is that it?? You need to wake up and smell the kero, my friend. It's a team effort and you're no more important than anyone else.
Until you realise this you are a danger to the entire operation.
PS What kind of high school do you graduate "with honours" from????? HAHAHAHAHAAAAA.....!!!!
**you don't actually need to add the prefix "pre" as that is what prepared means
PPS if the "fix-ems" need to be treated "tenderly" in order to do their job professionally and correctly, then they should get a job at McDonalds instead of one where lives depend on their performance.
an Avionis Lame
What's a
teh log
Hey Warty, why didn't someone as smart as you say you are write a "pre-prepared"** checklist for the guys in the Sioux City crash to cover a total hydraulics failure?
What did those guys do without someone as clever as you to help them and with only their "own judgement" to rely on?
Who fixed that airplane so well it came apart and put the pilots, crew and passengers in that situation???
See? You speak the sort of garbage as you have above and it can all be turned around and thrown back in your face.
Why are you trying to get under the skin of pilots? You don't like being a member of the team? Is that it?? You need to wake up and smell the kero, my friend. It's a team effort and you're no more important than anyone else.
Until you realise this you are a danger to the entire operation.
PS What kind of high school do you graduate "with honours" from????? HAHAHAHAHAAAAA.....!!!!
**you don't actually need to add the prefix "pre" as that is what prepared means
PPS if the "fix-ems" need to be treated "tenderly" in order to do their job professionally and correctly, then they should get a job at McDonalds instead of one where lives depend on their performance.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
From: melbourne
Hey Scrubed,
Hook, line and sinker. Ha Ha Ha.
Gotta tip for you mate,next time you post to a thread,try reading how old the thread is,you may as well have answered a thread 6 months old you "DUMMY"
Don't need to be treated tenderly as you put it,just don't like being spoken down to.Bit of mutual respect will do me fine.
Quote "Who fixed that airplane so well it came apart and put the pilots, crew and passengers in that situation??? " End Quote
The last time I looked,aircraft aren't held together with avionics wiring etc,I have always been under the impression that it was a structural thing which kept aircraft together,at least where I come from anyway.
PS The "c" button on my computer has been a bit intermittent lately until I pulled it apart and "repaired" it.Perhaps this will explain the "teh log" and "avionis Lame".
Seeya.
Hook, line and sinker. Ha Ha Ha.
Gotta tip for you mate,next time you post to a thread,try reading how old the thread is,you may as well have answered a thread 6 months old you "DUMMY"
Don't need to be treated tenderly as you put it,just don't like being spoken down to.Bit of mutual respect will do me fine.
Quote "Who fixed that airplane so well it came apart and put the pilots, crew and passengers in that situation??? " End Quote
The last time I looked,aircraft aren't held together with avionics wiring etc,I have always been under the impression that it was a structural thing which kept aircraft together,at least where I come from anyway.
PS The "c" button on my computer has been a bit intermittent lately until I pulled it apart and "repaired" it.Perhaps this will explain the "teh log" and "avionis Lame".
Seeya.
Last edited by wanty; 31st May 2005 at 11:32.