I'm with Gaunty this time, no matter how you cut it Profit of a notional $600K last year on a feeder route structure is going to be extremely difficult to replicate this year on a stand alone basis. The initial loads are not encouraging.
I certainly hope they can see Christmas out, but the return on assts last year was slim, how on earth can they pay back $3mill to the Feds and potentially a subrogated $1mill to Portman. Methinks they will end up in Portmans hands as a default position.

Make no mistake about it (President Bush's catch phrase at the moment!) it still is going to require alot of work and support. To quote Aerosole: "the work put in by the management and staff and the team spirit had to be seen to be believed." I belive is true. It's early days at present and it may take a couple of weeks to get up to full speed. I am led to believe that on-carrage is a very small percentage of the yearly pax total. Gaunty is right about the country maybe sustaining 2-3 interstate airlines ( two high class and one el'cheapo) and most regional routes are only able to support a single carrier, especially if you want a good service, otherwise people would be trying to cut each other out on a route that can only support one and, well, I think most could draw the rest of those dots that go with that debate...but lets not go down that road.

P.S It was very good of that mining company to also add 1 million towards their cause, and more if required! But who are Portman or Portland? and where are their mine sites?

[ 24 September 2001: Message edited by: Stick Pusher ]

T,
The $642k was NETTprofit for only July & August 2001.

I hear Skywest are considering sending a daily F50 flight to Broome. This route is definately profitable and one of the three Ansett were going to keep when they were thinking of rationalising there routes in WA. Broome's gone from 6-7 BAe146's a day to just 2 so there's definately a market up here. Good luck I say. Hopefully I'll be able to take holidays now there are seats available.

Hey Snapper_Head check your private messages mate.

Cheers,
TL

outback aviator

This gets more interesting by the minute so now it's $640k profit for 2 months.

Now what SORT of profit are we talking about here, operating profit perhaps, and does that include terminal facilities and ground staff, aircraft and engine leases, full maintenace burden, full tote landing fees, payroll, marketing advertising and agency fees etc etc.

They used to have it nailed before they were engulfed and can do so again, but they need to go right back to basics.

I'm hearing all these figures from all around but if it was that flash why didn't young Geoffrey step up. And why should he anyway, you start that caper and then everybody who goes belly up has a case for salvation NOT.
If it was a really truly profit that's one thing but if there are no assets then you've got nothing to hang your hat on.
It seems Ansett were in the mode of flogging everything that wasn't nailed down and leasing it back.
Whats left to buy or sell.
Goodwill? good intentions, yeah right. Short of some warm and fuzzies, nothing. Goodwill in this business is like the Icy Pole you drop in the sand on the way back to your beach towel. By the time you wipe the sand and grit off there's very little left.

The sad part is that it's election time, the NCP is not looking so good and guess who is the Hon Minister for Aviation.
So now there is another $3,500,000? burden on the business with a short dated coupon and now another $1,000,000 odd subordinated thingy in addition to all of the other liabilities (wonder if there are any of Abeles 99 year leases in there) that a new owner will have to take on without the benefit of being able to control its expenditure. In other words a poisoned chalice. It will be hard now to keep the brave keen enough for long enough, for everyone to work out the proverbial who's up where and who's paying the rent for it.

It would be a mistake to confuse the passengers thanks and relief for getting them home with long term loyalty. At the end of the day they will fly with whoever.

The even sadder bit is that loyal and dedicated staff have been thrown a rope which they hope can be used to pull themselves to the bank.

What remains to be seen is who, or indeed whether there is anybody at all, hanging on to the other end.

There is obviously quite a bit of YT knowledge on this thread, if you are in the company, I wish you all the best. I dont wish to hijack this thread, but for those of you in the know, do you think YT can maintain its traditional customer loyalty base without a frequent flyer program, knowing that ANs demise has shafted them all out of 100,000s of points, and robbed most of them of their Golden Whingers Lounge? Not sure that I would continue to give YT my patronage when I could cut my losses and go to National Joke or Air Stink... Any Ideas?

Gaunty, let's not get into financial business plans when there are many ways to skin a cat. If it's in the black then how it gets there doesn't really matter. I'm sure that those who are more qualified to come up with and run business plans are doing so, and for the best out come for the company. (not talking about Air NZ management!). I believe it will be around well and truely at the end of the year, so I'll take up that wager.
As for FF points, that will be a long way down the track... I doubt very much that the auditor will honour them. Maybe the new owner will, and if they still form part of a FF program. At the moment they are only interested in generating an income. they are not allowed to run at any sort of a loss, otherwise all the blue tails would still be in the air.

Enough said with all of this guys. It's a positive step and let's keep it that way. :)

Folks,

I also wish all those suffering fallout from AN's demise the very best in resurrecting something from the ashes. Between AN and the WTC, things have gone very quiet for aviation consultants!

Just a question for those in the know: how is Skywest doing for ticketing, marketing, ground handling, etc? I presume that the previous arrangements would have seen these requirements provided by AN on the basis of economies of scale.

Outback Aviator Profit is always nett, there is no other sort. Don't confuse profit with margin it isn't smart.
If Sky West are still paying Ansett salaries and wages there are not long for the independent business world.

T I'm getting a little tired of wasting my time explaining fundamentals to the likes of you,but I suppose that you won't learn until somebody explains the abc's to you.

I explained that the figure of $642k was nett profit for July and August 2001, for your benefit, as you referred to a "notional $600k for the previous year" unquote.


Your comment that there is no other profit than nett profit is completely incorrect,
see "operating profit", "gross profit","before tax profit" and nett profit.

If you don't believe me ask Virgin Blue what type of profit they showed.

You display a complete ignorance of these issues when you say "If Skywest are still paying Ansett salaries."

Skywest have NEVER paid Ansett salaries for ANY member of staff, why do think that in the last 6 years aprox. 10 pilots and almost all of the f/a's moved over to AN.
This is common knowledge on the Perth airport and it makes me wonder where you get your ideas from!!!!!!!

If that is not bad enough I make the very same point about salaries and cost structure in point 5) of my post on this very thread on page 1.

Would you please read the entire thread before throwing your tuppence worth in.

Finally you say that Skywest is not long "for the independant business world."

What is that exactly?,and where do think Skywest has BEEN operating for 35 years.

My own personal opinion about this thread is that it has developed like so many, into a slagging match between individuals and for no valid reason.I only started the thread to celebrate the fact that Skywest was operating once more.

Perhaps we should wait for 12 months to pass and then some of us will be proven correct and some not.

Out Back Aviator, I can categorically say that I understand profit my bank balance tells me I'm OK.
Yep we will see who is around and under what equity structure in the near future, my guess is before Xmas the outcome will be known. I was asked personally to guarantee a bail out consortium for Sky West but declined when I saw the structure, bloody diabolical. Weak management makes apparently strong unions.

t :rolleyes: If you dont even know that Skywest doesn't pay Ansett wages then it would appear you PERSONALLY didnt do much homework and I'm sure that Skywest is eternally grateful your not getting anywhere near it!!

Any ideas who is looking to buy YT?

Aero Soul and others, I am well aware of the structure of the Sky West equity and its relationship to the Ansett Group. Yes Sky West as an entity managed its own affairs and paid wages, rent, Group Tax ect.
But at the end of the day the figures clearly show that the Wage/Salary structure inside Sky West was aligned with the Ansett structure if not as a policy directive it was by primary association.
Don't get hung up on who the pay master might be, the problems in financial control are much deeper than the payroll.
I wish Bill Meeke well, I hope he can do it. It will take a miracle and will not succeed without Govt support.

T, is that you Triple Idiot ??? If it is,back in form eh? Still in touch with Dickcheese these days? Has to pay for any one else to listen to him these days. Ahhh so sad! :(

T,

I just can't be bothered any more with the likes of you! :mad:

As those of us with capital to invest can't be bothered with the likes of you. Ever wondered why the aviation Industry is being ground to a halt, capital goes where profit can be found and the Industry supports the individuals and institutions that inject the capital.

T :mad: If you wish to comment on Skywest would you please at least write the name correctly, NOT "Sky West".

PS: personally I hope QANTAS does not buy you out this week. Whist it may provide some security :rolleyes: , I think they might stem your potential as an even bigger operator in WA.

Best Wishes Skywest :) :) :)

Mud Skipper,

TA! :D