Going where Angels fear to tread.
 

With many hours spent trolling these halls endeavouring to keep us all safe from P1s wrath :D I notice a surprising and worrying lack of English skills, in grammar, syntax and spelling.
I don't want, am certainly not an expert myself; neither will I attempt to become Dunnundas' Proper English Gestapo.
However, there is/has been much discussion of this airline or thats education requirements outside the pure pilots license.
There is much profound argument about whether this or that assumedly non-aviation subject has any relevance to a subjects ability to fly an aircraft.
I see posts by aspirants of the “how come him not me” tenor, wherein the construction thereof provides the answer.
There is much intelligent and profound discussion on matters aviation. There is a lot that is not :(
I don’t make the decisions in these matters in the airlines, but I would not be inclined to hand over control of a multimillion dollar piece of very sophisticated machinery, with a couple of gross of sentient beings aboard, to someone who beyond numerate and manipulative skills necessary for a licence, is essentially functionally illiterate.

Our language and the use of it define us. Our language and the words we use in it, provide the means of communicating our thoughts and feelings. The more sophisticated we become in its use, meaning and definition, the more effectively we are able communicate with our fellows. It defines to others, the real depth, or lack of, our education.
We are supposed to be highly educated, trained, respected and responsible professionals safely conveying ‘gramma’ to see her new grand child, or vice versa. Sometimes this is not all that evident.
But you know what I mean, I hope.

Some but by no means all of the examples of incorrect spelling or use of words;
decent instead of descent.
there v their,
loose v lose
of v off
payed for paid

It goes on. May I suggest that if you edit your post in Word first it will help and teach you a little as well.

I stress this is NOT a criticism of ANYBODY nor would I EVER modify a post in this regard, NEITHER is it a call to Politically Correct English.

It is simply an observation that we should take more care and interest in our careers beyond simply plotting the shortest route to getting our hands on the controls.

Remember the interview committee is looking beyond mere paper qualifications to THE PERSON.

PPRuNe is a really great way to polish those other skills that we may not yet have quite under control. I know mine have been refined by it.

The art of communicating simply, clearly and cogently

Kind regards to all,
Woomera. :)


Sits back and waits for the REAL experts to critique my grammar, syntax and spelling. :D

What da ya meen that we cant use gramma. And sintax errors are abound. But why not just put a spell and gramma cheque on prune, ;)

dont ya mean a gramma cheka

Hey, u kneade 2 spoke gooda inglish man...

Chears

[ 22 November 2001: Message edited by: maxsfree ]

Now let me see if I have this correct Woomera.....

You have just expended:

2 Pages – 13 Paragraphs – 53 Lines – 472 Words – 2748 Characters (with spaces), to tell us we can not spell and our grammar is below standard :confused:

Hmmmm – quiet day huh :D :D

How long does it take to count 2700 odd letters (including spaces)?

Methinks we all have too much time on our hands...

If I remember rightly, going back 10 years, the only requirement for an Air NZ interview was School Certificate English. Don't know what the equivalent would be in Oz but you sat them at about age 15. One subject out of the 5 or 6 you had to sit.

Ohhhhhh..........toooo many big words for me Woomera. I think we all speek and talk propre and goode.

Sorry Woomera, but I couldn't help myself; "a subjects ability to fly an aircraft." The use of the word 'subjects' in this sentence is possessive and as such requires an apostrophe, thus making the above quote grammatically erroneous. Are you referring to one subject's, or many subjects' ability? :rolleyes:

Maybe not as quiet as yours NASA, sorry nasa. I cant believe you counted the letters, or did you?
Hey Woomera, doesn't spell check correct us to conform to the American form of spelling rather than the real and proper form?? Oops too many question marks. Err is oops a word? Sheesh whatever I give up.

And no full stop at their Woomera sheesh

Further to my post Woomera;
-"pilot's licence" not "pilots license"
-"I don't want, am certainly not an expert myself;", simply does not make sense.
-"This airline or thats education requirements", see above post on use of the possessive.
You are indeed quite correct that the level of literacy on this forum appears to be low, however we can simply hope that it's due to those too eager to type their message, and as a result errors occur.

Albatross. you will probably find that Air New Zealand require Bursary to get in now, which is equivalent to year 12 ( so they say)in Oz.

Have a good one (or two)

eh eh heh :p

Just checking to see who is awake, wayne shore is, oops, sorry, wayne_king, not wayne shore shore is.
As for the rest of you, you will have to stay back after skool for sum remeedial stuff. Which pub? :D

But you do know what I mean.........don't you!

Why is it so necessary anyway for Pilots to be able to spell, and use correct grammar? :confused:

Certainly NOT for Tech Log entries... ;)

Oh yes, of course, to fill in all those incident reports. :eek: :rolleyes: ;) :D

(IF there are any faults in this post, WFC I am only an Injuneer.... :D )

Actually, Woomera and wayne_ king if you guys want to get technical, you're BOTH wrong.
Woomera, it's not "pilots license"
Wayne_King, it's not as you tried to correct woomera. "Pilot's licence".
The correct grammar and spelling is a combination of both your answers. "Pilots licence"

:p

Gotta agre wif yu a hunnred persent, Womera. (Sorry, just couldn't resist that.)

I cringe at some of the English I read on this site, particularly on 'Dununda'. To paraphrase WS Churchill, (when he was criticised for ending a sentence with a preposition): bad gramma is something up with which we should will not put.

Most people posting here on Pprune want readers to take notice of the opinions they present. While I accept that a good command of English expression and grammar may have little bearing on your ability to fly and operate an aeroplane, you have a far better chance of people taking notice of what you're saying if what you write presents as if it's coming from someone with more than a primary education. (I also accept that for many people posting here, English is not their first language. However, most of the errors we see here can not be attributed to that.)

I know the English language is dynamic and thus ever changing. Therefore, I accept that many of the conventions I was taught at school have, to a greater or lesser degree, fallen by the wayside. But, (a message I've tried with singular lack of success to instil in my son), people who don't know you – (like potential employers, for example) – form an opinion of you from what you write. Particularly when it's a first impression, this can be very damaging, (perhaps to your job prospects), if you present them with sloppy, ungrammatical work. In the case of Pprune, an increasingly large number of people from outside the industry log on to this site to learn what we so-called professionals think on a topical subject. I'm quite serious when I say that some of what they read here must make them seriously consider taking the train next time they travel.

With that in mind, here are some of my all too frequently seen (un)favourites:

its' / it's / its:
The apostrophe usually denotes the possessive case. Don't ask me why, but the word 'it' is the exception. (How foreigners learn our language, with its (notice, no apostrophe) many curious exceptions like this one, is beyond me.) So, with the word 'it' and only with the word 'it', it's is a contraction for 'it is' and its, without the apostrophe, denotes the possessive. As for its', (I think meant to indicate the plural possessive?), it's (note the apostrophe, for 'it is') a relatively newly minted original. It didn't exist in my days in front of a blackboard.

Lose/loose At least on Pprune, you see this almost daily. You lose something (verbal). Something may be loose.

their/there/they're

too/to

your/you're (and even "your'e")

you/youse. (Haven't seen 'youse' in print on Pprune yet. Would that it was so when listening to youthful conversations.)

…than ME. (The 'am' is understood, so it becomes '…than me am' if you complete the sentence.) However, 'me' after 'than' has become so widespread and even accepted in some circles that you look (and in particular, sound) like a pretentious git is you use it and I think we'll have to gracefully accept defeat on this one. (If you make the small effort to add the 'am' at the end, you can get away with not sounding like Price Charles.)

(Logs off to polish Spelling Police jackboots and Sam Browne and stands by for someone to point out the deliberate (dinks) error(s).)

If we just told Woomera to go and get stuffed...
would that be grammatically incorrect? :rolleyes:

Edited to place the second "l" in grammatically!

[ 22 November 2001: Message edited by: Obadiah ]

Thank you Wiley,

My point exactly, (.1 accurately, precisely, perfectly, correctly, faultlessly, faithfully, scrupulously, strictly, literally, to the letter, literatum, word for word, verbatim, closely;methodically, systematically, to reveal just SOME of the synonyms or nuance of the word.) :rolleyes: :cool:

It is SO easy to make a mistake while typing though, I made one earlier today that was picked up right away..... :rolleyes:

BTW who on Earth is Price Charles? :eek: :rolleyes: ;) :D