Well, there's an old saying that it's better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it - but I'll have a go at Gauntys'conundrum.. .. .I seem to recall in a dim dark corner of a POH, a line that goes something like "in high density altitude situations, hold the aircraft on brakes while increasing throttle to maximum; then lean the mixture until either the RPM increases to a peak or begins to decrease, to ascertain whether you are acheiving full power. Leave the mixture control at the point of maximum RPM/Richness for take-off power.". .. .OK Gaunty, let's hear it........Yes? No?. .. .Regards

G'day Jamair.. .. .Q: wouldn't the CSU start "taking-up" some of that leaner air/fuel mix RPM drop? Wouldn't you be better-off watching the EGT (if fitted)? Perhaps a minor indication through the MAP would be starting point if no EGT?. .. .As far as I can ascertain, gaunty is suggesting the use of an acceleration section and a "zoom" technique from a higher IAS back to BR/BAOC. This would initially give you some 1500-2000 fpm ROC (and a gorgeous body angle in relation to the ground) when fully loaded after clean-up, however it would be very short-lived and would trickle back to a sustainable level after a very short while.. .. .Warm? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 27 March 2002, 11:49: Message edited by: 429 CJ ]</small>

By memory with the 206 at hot and high strips, you leaned it until a drop in RPM then enriched it abit. All a bit hazey. But leaning it on T/O at hot and high (5000ft 30deg) makes a diff.. . As for starting, the old BN2 method of prime then start with mixture in cut off works well. Especially with hot engines on 200/402 aircraft.

Leaning for t/off at high Density Alts. is a requirement if you expect to make the manufacturers performance charts.. .. .No good using RPM in a CSU a/c because full power/RPM will be within governing range. Use the EGT.. .. .A short take-off + obstacle clearance climb isn't helped by either 'dragging it off' early OR by 'zooming after high speed is reached'.. .. .Dragging it off early puts the a/c far behind the power/thrust curves with very high induced drag happily consuming all that energy you'd like to turn into height.. .. .Gaining any speed above Vx/Vy is also wasting energy since now it's being consumed by increasing parasite drag.. .. .Gaunty, did you have in mind checking full throttle MAP against QFE eg read from the altimeter subscale? They should be quite close at full throttle (normally aspirated).. . . . <small>[ 28 March 2002, 00:06: Message edited by: Tinstaafl ]</small>

Ah the good ol days...(damn, not that long ago really). .C206 & C210 oil: keep above 9, fill above 10 & gets blown out oil breather. Always keep extra oil in the back.. .. .Shortfield take-offs: flaps 20 degrees for both, yup 20 for the c210, alternatively, flaps up, accelerate past 60kts & select flaps 20. .Keep a fair bit of back pressure going, just enough to lift the front wheel off the ground & keep there, lifts off like a grand old lady. .. .more wisdom later...

Tinstaafl . .Gets the whole box of cigars.. .. .Check the MAP gauge before start it should read QFE in inches, that way you know that it is working and the gauge itself not blocked.. .After start it will of course read lower because the engine is being "throttled" remember the engine is just a big air pump.. .At take off or when full power is asked for, the engine is "unthrottled", that is the throttling butterfly is fully open in the induction system, which is now as unrestricted as it is going to be in so far as it's access to ambient air is concerned, unless there is an unintended blockage or restriction.. .Given the friction and other losses in the induction system the MAP should not be less than around 2" than ambient.. .If it is more then there is a induction system blockage, which can be for many reasons.. .Dirty oily or both air filter, which lives right behind the prop where all the dust is kicked up. Or disintegration of the paper filter, or wasps or mechanical obstruction, or etc etc etc.. .There is a blow in door at the top of the trunk into the engine at the rear, which is supposed to provide an alternate air source and prevent this becoming a problem and may well be doing just this job without your knowledge allowing unfiltered air into the engine, Esspensivo in dusty and sandy environmments.. .. .Check the alt air operation and spring to make sure it actually works staying shut.. .. .Either way monitoring the MAP differential at full throttle will tell you much about what is or maybe happening.. .. .429CJ . .No I wasn't suggesting zoom stuff just a practical demonstration for them of the deleterious effects of both mythical "techniques".. .. .ITCZ . .Got it in one with the 25/50TODA 50/75TOSS routine and indeed the Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators is really hard to beat for the real goods, dry reading but it's all there and all you need to know to keep you safe.. .. .Hot weather starts are truly a non event if you follow the book as suggested by ITCZ.. .ICO run the pumps for 30 odd seconds or until the FF indicator stabilises and clears the lines.. .Normal start thereafter gets it every time.. .. .It's all in the book

A place i worked had that "blue-metal" stuff (why they put that on airport tarmacs confounds me) outside the hangar. SOP was to start off the brakes so the acft (c182&206) would begin to roll directly so reducing the prop damage and then we would taxi off to a clear area for engine runs. But then again, running into something solid will do more damage than stone chips.... .. .When regularily climbing high eg PNG (or NZ i guess), we had worked out FFs for climb pwr at 2000'/4000'/6000'/etc, made a little placard for the cockpit (or just keep for yourself... more legal i guess) and set the mixture accordingly. Until you know a particular acft, and regularily to keep a check on what is happening "under the hood", cross check this with the EGT to ensure it is no closer than 100* under the current peak, preferably more, otherwise you run the risk of having one pot running too lean and therefore getting too hot. . .. .Always keep an eye on CHT (especially in climb) and keep in mind where the probes for these gauges are... the CHT gauge probe is usually located on the cylinder head that is "expected" to run the hottest; due to its placement in the engine- either 5 or 6 (or is it 3 or 4... anyone...anyone..?), BUT that doesn't account for an injector on one of the other pots getting a little clogged or rusting and "low-flowing" for some reason- it will then be running lean and therefore hotter than what is indicated on the gauge and YOU WON'T KNOW IT. . .. .If you find the engine starts rough running well before peak EGT it may indicate that one pot is leaning out way too early. Keep in mind the EGT probe- it is either on one pot's exhaust or it is downstream and therefore a mix- i can't remember which- but find out which cylinder(s) it is indicating and know the limitations of the gauge indication- a mix will be an average; one could be really hot/lean and another could be cool/rich and you will get an average indication- if it is on only one cylinder then same as the CHT; you don't know what the others are doing. ALSO those EGT probes are getting roasted whenever the engine is running and they get old fast- so the position of the EGT needle on the gauge is relevant to nothing except its peak position- as the probe gets older the peak will be at a lower spot on the gauge- but if it is off the gauge then you need a new probe or there may be a problem.. .. .Basic stuff and i am probably flogging a dead horse but being aware may help you pick up a problem before it causes the fan to stop thus saving your bacon- especially where you (southposs) want to work. The continentals are more prone to shot cooling than the lycs and with the high RoD due terrain in places like PNG it is a real factor. DITTO on whoever mentioned shot cooling. If you're going fast, keep it warm- keep the pwr to it and no large/fast pwr changes until you have slowed down and configured.. .. .If you do get unusual rough running at altitude, don't follow in my uncertain footsteps and do your Fuel/Air/Ignition checks without engaging the grey matter... mix rich/change tanks/pump on will make everything go quiet real quick- simply floods the engine at altitude- leaning the mix or turning off the yellow pump will bring back the noise.... .. .Taxi with full back elevator to reduce the weight on the nose wheel- but careful at an aft CG, as was said before.... .. .The "sit on the tail" loading procedure works well for the newer models but be careful with the older model 206s and the 205s (the different wing as Gaunty mentioned)- they can get pretty unstable inflight with aft CG even though the tail has come back up.... .. .And don't sit on the bl**dy tail as that can easily deform the tailplane's leading edge- push down on the inboard part of the tailplane spar.... .. .With a CSU, manifold pressure indicates max rated power- figure is in the book (usually 27-29"Hg)- and if you don't have "Hg on your altimeter i think it is 1"Hg less per 1000' field elevation. Someone confirm..?. .. .Did someone mention backing up a Twin Otter... oops!. .. .and i've gone on long enough now. .. .HJ. .. .&lt;editted due brain f@rt&gt;. . . . <small>[ 28 March 2002, 05:45: Message edited by: Herc Jerk ]</small>

Anyone carry a broom on their C206's (a bit like 210's, but the prop not being quite so close)? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />

so did woomera give it a tick or a cross for political correctness??. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" />

... this is a wonderfull thread which brings back a lot of fond memories and some not so. I was working in Aurukun when Stephen Heel died tragically. Anyone who flys Aboriginals around know what excellent flyers they are and Im sure that the well travelled elders in the back of that ill fated flight already knew all to well how to open the doors.... they just panicked in the face of death I suppose....

Just thought I would add my two cents as I have some experience with the 206;. .. .I worked with a 206 operator in Victoria who I believed to be genuinely concerned with safety. He taught me a good lesson as far as the cargo door briefing is concerned. . .. .He correctly pointed out that should you brief on the use of the door and fail to point out that it should only be used once the aircraft has come to a complete stop, you run the risk of flap inactivation as stated.. .. .Remembering that most of us have been briefed on the importance of "puting a shoe in the door before puting it in the trees" if a passenger sees the pilot open the door before puting it down they may get some bright ideas....!. .. .Obviously as a sensible requirment you should brief passengers on the use of doors, however do not forget to stress the importance of waiting for a complete stop!. .. .As for the statement on pulling the pitch back whilst taxiing, I am not so sure about this (any engineers out there willing to contribute) . .. .Part of the old argument in multi engined aircraft for not exceeding a 500 RPM / 200 RPM or thereabouts drop (admitedly from a higher RPM) on a feather and Governor check respectively is so as to not overstress the crankshaft.....it might just be that the level of risk involved could roghly be compared to buzzing Barry Diamond at a CASA open day over Kingsford Smith upside down in your traumahawk without a clearance!. .. .One time however when I do believe you should be pulling the pitch lever ALL the way back is in the event of an engine failure, This is not stated, at least not in the '67 pamphlet otherwise known as the Pilot's Operating Handbook. . .. .This dramatically decreases the amount of drag and if required will give you a significantly greater gliding distance, except of course in the event of a catastrophic engine failure. . .. .But boys and girls don't try this at home when practicing your engine failures, as the point from which you are close to the ground and reaching for the throttle when you have mucked it all up, will be the same point at which you impact should you forget to push in the pitch.. .. .In addition a point about some of the much older models of the 206; known as 205's or 210/5A's (much more like a 206 than a 210) Amongst various other differences you will notice a much narrower Elevator, this has the unfortunate problem of limiting your elevator authority, particularly in the event of a forward C of G with full flap. . .. .The laws of physics do not change for a 206/205 and landing with full flap DOES decrease your landing distance think back to the old days of physics and the ever reliable equation; Kinetic energy is equal to 1/2 mass multiplied by velocity SQUARED. This means that should you touchdown at 50 kts with 20 degrees of flap instead of 45 knots with full flap you carry 23% more energy for a measly 11% increase in touchdown speed.. .. .Having said this, landing your 205 with 20 degrees of flap when possible will impress the crowd and prevent the undesirable wheel barrowing you will find so difficult to correct with such limited elevator authority as that provided.. .. .Don't forget to adjust the height of your seat, as like many average height people, I find it hard to see over the coaming without full up.. .. .Some of these points may seem obvious, however I hope they are useful to some of the junior pilots that will be operating them.. .. .I achieved my first thousand hours primarily in these old girls but now that I am sleeping with another woman I feel it my duty to point out that despite her uncompromising reliability she would have to just about be the world's most unphotogenic Sl#t, despite he fowl looks the Bit%h slept with many more pilot's than I ever did.

Thanks for the tips Gaunty; if you learn something every day the day was worth it. The POH I was referring to was a fixed pitch aeroplane; I (sorta) knew about the MAP thing but not enough to comment.

Re the cranking up of seats, I have found that due to the offset of the 'T' pattern in the attitude instruments in 182 & 206 (ie the AH or HSI is about 2" left of the column) when on the clocks it is better to crank the seat down so that the instuments are as close to eye level as practical. The new-build Cessna singles have their attitude instruments centred on the control column position.

Have also found it worthwhile to demonstrate the action of the front door opening system, and then have the pax do it as well, before start-up.

In my briefing include the line that "if anyone sees another aeroplane in our bit of sky before I do, they win a dollar" (for kids or $5 for adults).

Regards.

I found the 206 an absolute sl*t to land at first, but sussed it after a while. I never used full flap, only 20 degrees and found that this worked a treat, even on short strips. I found bringing the power off nice and slowly during the flare did the trick. Have tried this method in other ac and it isn't so successful. The 207 by contrast landed itself, piece of p!ss.

The 206 was bloody versatile, good for loads, and i would still rather take one than a C210.

Didn't fly many 207 hours, but when it caught on fire one day i lost a bit of respect.:eek: :mad:

Thanks 4 excellent tips guys !
 

When really desparately trying to get airborne off the end of
a strip, I've "bounced " it into the air ;
but be Very Careful !