QANTAS START UP
 

Does this mean employment chances for bugsmashers or will it be two crew ops with already rated pilots. Still, mainline QF will require more pilots to fill the shoes of those who fly the 767'S on Asian routes.

No way AA aircraft will be crewed by QF mainline. The whole reason for establishing AA is to create a low cost carrier that can compete with VB and AN2. You dont achieve that by paying the crew approximately double. This is the beginning of the end for the current conditions at QF.

I think you'll see the QF recruiting program slow to almost nothing over the next 12 to 18 months. As AA expands and gradually takes over most QF routes domestic and international it will be the main employer for aircrew.

There will still be good jobs, just not so good money!

"There will still be good jobs, just not so good money!"

A pity some poeple think this sort of future for pilots is so hilarious and inevitable.
Another giant step downwards for professional pilots as they prepare to sell each other out with continually lower expectations and self worth.

Keep it up folks. With this attitude we will soon have no good money AND no good jobs. Guess you'll be happy then!!

Well Whatever.........

Good point,aiming. Unfortunately I think Soup Nazi might be closer to the truth than others hope. It will be very interesting to see what occurs to the recruitment side of things in the new year. It has already been stated that QF has identified a large number of suitably qualified drivers overseas for the posssible operation. The numbers of heavy jet rated guys (already in the hold) has increased in numbers over the last year. With many being held longer than this. Unfortunately they might be in a sad predicament of being offered positions with poorer conditions of service attatched. We shall wait and see. QFs long standing problem of not being able to offer more than 2 days notice when commencing a PUIT might dissappear. Unfortunately, for all the wrong reasons I should guess.

Wing, how long have you been swimming in the pool then? :cool:

Soup Nazi is guessing. Watch this space!

Soup Nazi is winding up.

Never fails to surprise me that people think that Australian pilots are overpaid by world standards...(psssst...they are not..)and that thinking that way, they can rationalise the urge to attempt to undercut current pilots in order to get that jet job.

That is fine until they do get that job, and employers use the same tactic to undercut THEM.

There will be jobs at AA and QF. If someone thinks that, no matter how it is presented, that aircraft owned by QF, on routes flown by QF shouldn't be flown by current QF pilots, then you are part of the problem rather than the cure.

Current QF S/O's are well paid and their promotional prospects are excellent. Stop trying to jump the queue.

Things are already picking up for Qantas.

(QUOTE)

Qantas to resume NY flights

From AAP
13dec01

QANTAS is to restore services to New York via Los Angeles from February 27.

Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon said there were now some signs of improvement for international air travel, which was badly hit by the September 11 terrorist attacks on America.

"The aviation and tourism industries within Australia and around the world have been through an extremely tumultuous period over the past few months," Mr Dixon said.

"These adjustments reflect the fact that travel on some international routes is showing signs of improvement."

The restored New York services will operate each Wednesday, Friday and Sunday out of Sydney, with return services operating the same day from New York.

Qantas said it will also increase its services to Hong Kong, with three additional flights each week operating from Sydney to Hong Kong on Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday.

In addition to these changes, Qantas will operate all of its services between Australia and Frankfurt, Paris and Rome via Singapore from March 31 2002.

"Singapore is one of the key hubs in the Qantas network, linking Australian cities with Kangaroo route services to Europe and flights to other parts of Asia," Mr Dixon said.

Meatro, 13 months and counting. Borg, is that the fair queue or the far queue then. And no, I'm not trying to jump it. But to argue that line is a crock of... :mad:

QF are using AA to get round the pilots union. The are plenty of AN 767 HEROS who would jump at the chance that AA would offer them. Pilots are sadly by nature a mercenary lot, there will always be a group who are willing to ignore the good of the whole to benefit themselves, wittness 1989. Any naive ideals I had about pilots being an honourable bunch of gentlemen was expunged in a few months.QF knows this and will be able to entice enough qualified people to run their operation even though it is a futher erosion in pilot conditions that started in 89. Never trust a pilot.

Sits back and waits for the backlash.

I've said it before on other threads and I'll say it again. AIPA and the company are working together on this one. The intention as I've heard it at this stage, is to offer QF mainline pilots first choice. MAYBE then, if all posiitons cannot be filled, there may be direct employment into the front seats. But with a basing in Cairns, I think there would be plenty of interested parties. There are other ways of cutting operating costs other than cutting salaries. Soup Nazi, stop slavering at the idea of QF pilots losing their conditions.

Why not just charge an appropriate and realistic fare in the first place?

If this is not possible then the operation is merely a sham!!!!

Well Whatever............ :eek:

Yes, I should think QF mainline pilots will be offered positions at AA, however, under a whole new remuneration package.
Sad for them, but true. :confused: :confused:

AA will be crewed by Qantas mainline pilots under the same pay.
Fullstop.

But the CEO Mr Dennis Adams has indicated that Ansett employees - PILOTS and FA's are welcome to apply.

Sorry to spoil your breakfast chaps but if QF took even a little peek at the European Charter Airlines they certainly will not be using QF mainline pilots for AA.

Why, try 95% of flights with TWO crew only. Try 9hr+ Atlantic crossings with TWO crew. Try 13hrs+ duty with TWO crew.

If your union will not agree to conditions similar to this then they will look elsewhere. Many other airlines follow these practices so why not AA ?

2XL, it doesn't matter whether AIPA agrees to the conditions you describe. Quite simply, CAO 48 won't agree to them (not even close), and it doesn't care where you get your pilots from.

Now, back to my breakfast...

2XL:

Apparently AA has been granted a exemption against CAO 48 for 2 crew ops in the 767 out to 9 hours flight time. Not that any of the proposed routes are that long . . .

Apart from which, QF mainline has an exemption to operate 767s out to 8 1/2 hours flight time with 2 crew - so not much of an increase there. Same applies to 2 crew ops on the -400. You would be surprised to know how hard QF runs its crews, particularly 767 drivers.

You might also be surprised to learn how the rates of pay for QF 767 drivers compares to even European charter airlines. Not that much difference, if any. That's partly why QF loves operating the 767 domestically. :(

Mr Hanky, Waste Gate seems to have come to my rescue on the CAO48 considerations. My point would have been very similar - dispensations. The Australian Federal Govt seems rather cosy with QF Management. Mind you I observe from the other side of the world and rely on the press for accuracy (is that possible ??)

In reference to salary comparisons this subject has been hammered to death in many previous posts. It is very difficult to compare salaries without a common currency and cost of living ratio. Lets just say from my experience that the standard of living a QF pilot may enjoy on his 767 salary would exceed that of a similar 767 pilot working for a European Charter Airline. On paper at quick glance this may not appear so.

Don't get me wrong, QF expansion means more jobs for the boys so great. Just take a reality check on the possible scenarios.

Mr Hanky, I agree with you on the point regarding CAO 48. However, I was under the impression that CASA was making a concerted push to harmonise everything with JAR OPS requirements. If they continue down that road then these practices will be thrown out for the ones stated by 2XL. The companies would love it. But believe me, the pilots won't. Under those conditions that 2XL talks about, there wouldn't be a need for any SOs on the QF mainline fleet for any run the 767 does. (Woops, did I let the cat out of the bag???)
Regarding the other comment about flight times for AA. I thought the hub was to be CNS, but the aircraft were to operate from other ports wihtin Oz as well. Not every flight would route thru CNS if heading north, would it? ;)