Tears as Fox sees all those jobless
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Tears as Fox sees all those jobless
news.com.au. .. .Tears as Fox sees all those jobless. .By RICHARD GLUYAS. .The Australian. .08mar02. .. .A CRESTFALLEN Lindsay Fox, occasionally in tears, is on a public mission, craving absolution for his role in last week's dramatic collapse of his Tesna bid for Ansett with close friend Solomon Lew.. .. .But self-engineered rehabilitation is proving a difficult task for the determined trucking magnate, who is said to be worth about $340 million. . .. .There is also the threat of a class action by aggrieved Ansett workers who claim they relied on Fox and Lew statements the deal would proceed. . .. .Late last week, Fox and his "forward scouts" began inviting union leaders to a private meeting on Monday at Linfox headquarters in Melbourne's tree-lined St Kilda Rd. . .. .The meeting was held in Fox's expansive office, lined with pictures of Fox himself and Fox with famous people. . .. .Fox, of course, attended, along with daughter and public relations adviser Katrina and son Peter. . .. .Also there was the Linfox director and ex-ACTU secretary Bill Kelty, his former ACTU offsider and industrial officer Mary Stuart, as well as representatives from the Transport Workers Union, the Australian Services Union, the Ansett Pilots Association and the Flight Attendants Association of Australia. . .. .The meeting was to last about an hour. Fox, however, emerged no closer to achieving the rehabilitation he so keenly seeks. . .. .In fact, he sustained further collateral damage when TWU federal secretary John Allan summed up the situation in characteristically brutal terms. . .. .Allan said: "I told him he was the public face of Tesna and that it was quite normal for business deals to go to the wire. . .. ."But I also said he took 3000 Ansett jobs to the wire and that he would have to live with the stigma of that for the rest of his life." . .. .And how did Fox respond? . .. ."He seemed genuinely upset," said Allan. . .. .There were further explanations for Tesna's demise, but none was deemed satisfactory. . .. .Instead, there was a point where at least one attendee felt the unions were being led to believe that it was Lew, and certainly not Fox, who had decided to cut and run. . .. ."So it was put to Lindsay that it was the other half of the equation who pulled the pin," one source said. . .. ."Lindsay said: 'I'm not giving up my mates'." . .. .The Monday meeting was by no means an isolated event. . .. .A senior union source says there had been "lots of tears" as Fox tried to rehabilitate himself. . .. .He predicts that Tesna's demise will see Fox, 64, depart from the business scene a shattered man. . .. .The recriminations, as well, extend beyond the trade union movement.. .. .Of pressing importance to Fox and Lew will be any legal implications or liabilities arising from their late change of heart on Ansett. . .. .Late on Monday afternoon, ACTU secretary Greg Combet, flanked by industrial officer Richard Watts and representatives from labour law firm Maurice Blackburn Cashman, stepped into the Queen St chambers of Jonathan Beach QC. . .. .The decision to retain Beach to look at possible breaches by Tesna of section 53B of the Trade Practices Act, prohibiting misleading statements or conduct while offering employment to people, is yet more evidence of the union movement's determination to avail itself of the best available talent for a corporate stoush. . .. .In the early stages of the Ansett administration, Leon Zwier from the blue-blood corporate law firm Arnold Bloch Leibler was retained and helped remove PWC as the original, court-appointed administrator due to a possible conflict of interest. . .. .Beach's father, Victorian Supreme Court judge Barry Beach, has in the past earned the ire of the union movement. . .. .Australian Workers Union secretary Bill Shorten, who has also been embroiled in Ansett, wrote to Chief Justice John Phillips in October 2000, complaining about Justice Beach's alleged anti-union bias in a case he had heard in August of that year. . .. .Chief Justice Phillips found the allegations could not be substantiated. . .. .Beach's son, an expert in insolvency and trade practices, could signal soon that the unions might have a case against Fox and Lew. . .. .Public statements by Tesna that the deal would proceed shortly before it crashed will be examined. They will have to be balanced against Tesna's claim it was impossible to achieve settlement by the named date, February 28. . .. .Says one source: "This is a very unusual set of facts for a section 53B case. The cases usually involve job ads or statements by personnel agencies. . .. ."Here we are talking about people possibly being persuaded by what's been said publicly, and then maybe moving interstate to take an Ansett job or not accepting alternative employment." . .. .Meanwhile, Fox can expect his pleas to fall on deaf or resistant ears. "I reckon he's pretty clearly having problems with his conscience," a senior unionist says. "Some people say he's weeping daily. But in my job I go to meetings where hundreds of people are weeping, and none of them are worth $400 million."
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Why was is it so difficult to see that, after rejection from the Federal Government to Tesna regarding taxpayer's funds to kick start Ansett, Fox and Lew were never really interested in putting their own funds into the venture and getting the show airborne?. .. .They tried the banks - no go, they tried the Americans - no go and finally they even tried the opposition, VB - no go. Between the pair of them I don't believe they couldn't come up with $270 million of their own money to get the ball rolling. What was stopping them, was the fact that Ansett was never going to make money for a long, long time and it never looked like a good business proposition. A bad investment. I guess they figured it's OK to put other people's money into a bad investment, but definitely not your own. Fair enough.. .. .I am only a humble Airline Pilot, not a corporate genius, but even I could see, as far back as October last year, that Ansett was never going to be a good business proposition.. .. .What was the FLEW agenda then ? That I cannot work out.
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Do you honestly think that Fox and Lew had intentions from the outset of backing out of the deal one day before the signatures where set to go? Why would two highly regarded and respected business men risk their reputation for nothing????. .. .You and I know nothing!!!!! What you read in the paper and see in the media is only a crumb off the whole cake. We dont know the 100 other reasons why the deal didnt go through, and we probably wont ever know.. .. .The fact of the matter is this - Thier money is thier money! They can do what ever the hell they want with it. Strike a deal, reject a deal, whatever! If you tell a car dealership that your interested in a new Holden, and then decide not to buy it, should Holden be blaming you for the loss of income????? How dare the public and AA workers blame Fox and Lew for loss of so many jobs. You should probably be thanking them for trying. Lets get back to the original reason that Ansett collapsed in the first place - management, Air NZ etc.. .. .Not intended to offend, only to discuss an opinion, and yes I do feel for the Ansett guys, but hate the bashing the Fox and Lew are getting!
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Jimbo, mostly I agree with your point of view. I think where FLEW lose sympathy is that they required all other interested parties to be sent packing, allowed people to move and/or reject other employment based on their (FLEW's) promises of future employment.. .. .If they weren't prepared to put their money up front, and it's not entirely surprising that they weren't, they should not have indicated a future for 'employees' until they had all their ducks in a row.. .. .It seems to me that very few people, informed or otherwise, are truly surprided that FLEW didn't get airborne.. .. .(must learn to prrof read before clicking the submit button!). . . . <small>[ 08 March 2002, 06:16: Message edited by: Capt Claret ]</small>
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All well and good Capt, I agree. One thing I would like to point out is that I dont think that potential Tesna employees where 'promised' in writing that they would have a position. I not entirely sure but that seems unlikely. It also seems that some AN employees may have counted thier chickens by moving or selling up perhaps?.....I also dont think that they where asked to move considered that nothing was rubber stamped. Correct me if Im wrong please.. .. .Cheers, Jimbo
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Jimbo James, . . . . It sounds to me like you're an insider for Fox and Lew. . . Facts are they pledged commitment to Ansett staff all along. On the strength of that many staff declined other job offers and many others moved interstate. By all accounts(including the administrator to Ansett)bar Fox and Lew, this corporate transaction could have been completed.. .When you pledge your commitment then don't follow through you were not committed after all were you !. . I believe there is such a thing as a verbal contract and the staff at Ansett definitely had theirs broken. Think for one moment of the expense and personal hardship that these people have undertaken to keep their end of this verbal contract. They have indulged Fox and Lew's commitment to Ansett and a promise to them has been broken! I can well imagine Fox has something to weep about. Let the courts examine the evidence and may the people have justice for all.. . It appears that although Fox and Lew were committed to Ansett they did not want to pay for it, how do you justify bidding for a business you are not prepared to pay for? is it reasonable to continue with a so called commitment to a company before you have secured how you are going to pay for it and if you haven't do you have a legal obligation to pay for it when your other plans don't come off, especially when you have announced you are committed to completion.. . More importantly, if you are not prepared to pay for a company you can afford are you legally obligated to stay out of proceedings with that . .company? And what about the ethics involved here ? I would assume anyone making a commitment with so many peoples futures at stake would assess carefully their actions and take full responsibility for those actions.. . It appears Fox and Lew's commitment was based on other peoples money and when that was not achieved to their satisfaction their commitment was dissolved.. . Dealing with other peoples money is one thing however dealing with other peoples lives is entirely unacceptable.. . . . Would you care to comment on that Jimbo James ?
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Airtight,. .. .Firstly, let me say that I am not a Fox/Lew insider. Made me laugh though!. .. ."By all accounts.....this corporate transaction could have been completed". How do you know this I ask? Did you sit in on every meeting that Fox and Lew had with the administators, the airports corporation, Airbus, Virgin, other investors, government reps, the list goes on. NO! You are basing all of your assumptions on media reports, are you not?. .. ."When you pledge your committment then dont follow through you were not really committed after all were you". Not a very thought out statement airtight! If someone makes a statement about commitment, is it not fair to say that they are committed at the time of the statement? Circumstances change airtight, so it is acceptable that a committment may be backed away from if changes take place. That is why they have a term called 'Divorce'.. .. .Verbal contract is indeed a binding contract, but did Fox and Lew ever give each and every individual employee of Ansett this contract. Fox and Lew could not have employed all staff prior to Ansett's collapse, they were to employ approximately 3000 former, so does this mean that everyone outside the 3000 who would miss out on working for the new Ansett Mark ? had thier contracts revoked? If I promise the world I would give food to the poor, and protect the world from peace and then failed to deliver, am I liable to be prosecuted? Think realistically airtight. Fox and Lew were telling everyone want they wanted to hear, I will stand firm on that, but legal proceedings for failing a promise...c'mon!. .. ."If you are not prepared to pay for a company you can afford are you leagally obligated to stay out of proceedings with that company". I dont know what you mean here, are you quoting a legal source?. .. .I agree with you that Fox and Lew's committment was based on SOME of other people's money, but we failed to see anyone else trying to help out the demised airline. After all, Gerry McG had plans for an expanding airline, but did he use any of his money??? He used investors money to bring in 717's into Australia. It didnt work under his terms, but it is now working well with Qantas.. .Fox and Lew were prepared to gamble but with other peoples money - YES! Isnt that what Qantas did also recently with a share resale to gather more cash to buy the new generation 737's. You will find that most startup airlines are started with "other" peoples money and this is exactly what Fox and Lew where doing!. .. .I enjoy a discussion airtight, not a verbal match. I am putting to writing my opinions with no intent to discriminate, insult or defame.. .Put yourself in Fox/lew's position. They seem like honest gentlemen (from what Ive seen and heard, not just recently but throughout thier business career). But honestly, tell me what they had to gain by bluffing to the nation,. .. .Cheers, Jimbo
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Tears from Fox and maybe Lew?? Why does the word crocodile come to mind??. .. .It would be interesting to see detail of bank transfer to the two gentlemen from Singapore based accounts - or should we look for the blind and check Geneva.. .. .EWL
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I would just like to point out to Jimbo that yes we did receive written offers of employment, and contracts (which were signed), but they included the statement that it was subject to the sale going through. BUT we were continually assured by Tesna that all was well all through the process (including by letter I might add).
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Fox Fire, thats exactly the point Im trying to discuss - "subject to the sale going through". The sale did NOT go through, so where does the renigging come in? The contract seemed clear and simple relating to employment. I cant see where they did wrong in terms of contract!. .. ....and Airtight, would YOU care to comment now?
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Nasty men playing with people's lives for their own gain I fear Foxy.. .. .*hugs*. .. .EWL. .. .Edited for fat fingeritis.. . . . <small>[ 09 March 2002, 04:20: Message edited by: Eastwest Loco ]</small>
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
It would do you well to remember the ACTU's part in this as well - they effectively vetoed other creditors by using the Ansett employees!!. .. .The Ansett employees - as a UNITED GROUP - could have played a far bigger role in their fate, rather than allowing the ACTU to play them as pawns.. .. .Buster Hyman well remembers my saying this some months back, when he responded with something along the lines of "What should we all do - resign from the union?". .. .It wasn't just a play by FLEW to make a fast few million, it was a strategy that the ACTU needed, to regain their stronghold in the aviation transport arena. The Ansett employees votes were worth mega $$'s to the ACTU - and they got it all at no cost!!. .. .The price paid for being apathetic Australians!!
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Kaptin M - the unions who represented the ground staff - the FCU and the TWU ran like scared rabbits and could not even return phone calls when Eenie weenie was glommed by AN.. .. .I cant see any reason why these leeches would be standing up for the AN staff now. All they are interested in is feathering their own nests and not the people involved.. .. .I am pleased to say that I physically threw an FCU rep out of the DPO terminal after he harrassed me and passengers at flight checkin time.. .. .He didnt bloody bounce either.. .. .EWL
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But gee Kaptin, we would've shown 'em eh??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .Yes, I guess that was when I erroneously walked into the '89 "discussion". I'm over that stuff now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . .. .I sought independant legal advice as to allowing the ACTU to get my proxy and I was told that I was damned if I did & damned if I didn't. So I did. I can assure you, I won't be at the "Defend the ACTU banquet", I'll be at home watching the telly!
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">They seem like honest gentlemen (from what Ive seen and heard, not just recently but throughout thier business career).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Jimbo, old mate, before you go to bed early tonight all excited about the arrival of the Easter Bunny, I suggest you type "Yannon" into a search engine and have a little read.