So now the other boot finally drops - SQ shows its hand.
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Back Seat Driver - not bad, but you are making some assumptions in that scenario.. .. .1. BA have only a 22.51% in QF (after a share redistribution last year)which means SQ would not have a controlling interest. Why would QF ditch it's One World alliance (with all it's established connections)in favour of Star Alliance?. .. .2. Would QF really be interested in Air NZ ? It would be deja vu, Air NZ purchase of Ansett. However, you state "the carcass",assuming the New Zealand government are going to give it away after pumping hundreds of millions of taxpayers money into keeping it going. I don't think Helen Clark has considered retirement just yet.. .. .Finally, I think there is room for a third airline in Oz and another "no frills" one at that.. .Guess who was in Singapore last week and he wasn't on flying duties? I won't reveal anymore at this stage until I can verify this "rumour" from another source but will leave you with a thought - the Spirit lives on.. .. .Keep the faith:]
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That’s right, it is dead and the industry and the people in it have to get over it. This has been an interesting discussion.. .. .It is indeed a tough world and was going to be ever since the end of the Two Airline Policy was announced in 1987. It’s just that it’s taken a little longer than it should have for the chickens to come home to roost in terms of bloated payrolls, horrible fleet mixes, poor strategic thinking (ego-driven route expansion, ignoring low-fare segments etc), excessive spending on terminals and excessive time and money spent worrying about how to kill competitors instead of spending the same time and effort becoming competitive.. .. .But I don’t think that it’s right to deduce that there’s been a conspiracy (ies) from the fact that new operators and people from outside the “traditional” airline club are cherry picking assets and thinking about new ways to do things better. That, sadly (for the losers), is how free enterprise works. Just look at Andersen’s in the US. They simply screwed up almost every imaginable aspect of their business. Like drunken surgeons with dirty hands, no anaesthetics and blunt scalpels they plied their business. It has cost billions and will soon cost all the management and staff their jobs. Maybe for some even their liberty. And thier competitors will pick up the slack no sweat.. .. .Ansett, perhaps egged on by the privileged position given them by the Hawke government, similarly never did get the hang of operating a modern competitive airline. Hawke gave them:. .. .1. A 30 year stranglehold over terminals throughout Australia. .2. A blank cheque (cheap RAAF flights, easy visas etc) in 1989/90. .3. Competitive free reign to brutally attack Compass 1 by price and capacity wars. .4. Permission to operate their old Stage 2 aircraft when new comers had to have stage 3.. .5. At least their share of Government travel. .6. Good inside info. on currency movements (remember Sir Pete sat on the Reserve Bank board). .7. A very very very very compliant ACTU. .8. Use of the good offices of the Australian Government to sell off shareholdings in Ansett when News wanted out.. .9. Last minute blocking of ANZ’s plans to start their own domestic airline in Australia.. .. .And yet they mismanaged their way right down the gurgler. Few examples exist of an inheritance being squandered with more vigour and chest beating bravado. If there was a conspiracy it was one of collective ignorance.. .. .……and the message for Qantas. Read all of the above carefully and polish up those plans to get lean and mean rather than remain overburdened with cost and reliant on history and privilege.. .. .The very best managed airlines in the world rarely do better than a 10% margin of profits on turnover. Hands up all those who think QF is not quite in the very best managed league and who can also see areas where QF costs bite significantly into what is left of the 10%. . .. .QF balance sheets and income statements are like a big sign to prospective competitors: “Come on in, the waters fine”. . .. .As others have said…”Let the games begin!”. .. .Elektra
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Ah, the gravy stroke..... .. .BSD's and other posts point to the fact that the sh@tfight isn't over yet. If anyone wants my cat in their pigeons, and briefly 'cos I'm off soon.... .. .QF and SQ remain implacable enemies; in which case VB and NZ/Freedom are the cards in play.. .. .How about QF takes NZ and SQ/VB takes Freedom. Maybe even with the Witch Queen's compliance as both NZ brands seem to be compromised and isolated in the wider OZ/NZ market, despite their (arguably) better cost structures. Even pollies can only lose money for so long... . .. .Lots of competition, national interest issues here, but at least a plausible outcome. Five will get you ten.... .. .Oh, and by the way: I'm an NZ driver. My most sincere condolences to the non-HERO AN drivers for the hardship which has come your way through no fault of yours or mine. As much as we can blame management on both sides of the Tasman, I guess we can all see where the 89/90/99 chickens have come to roost. I grieve for the lost opportunities we suffer at the hands of the greedy.
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> I grieve for the lost opportunities we suffer at the hands of the greedy. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">I'm still trying to work that one out...just who was being greedy? From previous threads on this site it seems that earlier last year it was on for one and old to pick up on Ansett's expansion plans.. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 17 March 2002, 10:56: Message edited by: rescue 1 ]</small>
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It actually goes like this . .. .1 News aren't happy & want out. .2 Rod selected to gain exit by getting a profit. .3 SIA wooed as buyer News sells Oops ANz enters. .4 Rod flies to ANz and says backoff you dont have the money to fix AN. .5 ANz without due diligience buys (shhittt). .6 Now ANz has used its cash reserves and AN is broke thank to Sir A. .7 QF & AN are attacked by Impulse and then Virgin. .8 QF answer attack increasing market share. .9 AN in deeper trouble SIA take share of ANz. .10 AN still topples finally SIA do due diligence on AN and are horrified SIA withdraws . .11 AN goes down they are a basket case Tensa tries to capture terminals but fail as airports demand condition of leases is Tensa must fly. .. .No secret deals except QF muddied waters where possible to stop an AN revival.It is all just a very sad case of missed management of a great airline <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" />
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Walley. .. .And that's about it in a nutshell, no inscrutable game of Go, no internecine labyrinthine plot, just plain simple vanilla sprinkled with greed and a big dash of dumbosity.. .. .I have learned the hard way that a nod and an inscrutable smile means very little other than, I have absolutely no idea about what to do either, but if I wait, whichever way it falls I can claim that it was my real plan in the first place.. .Unfortunately that only works in your own backyard where you can control the action and the information.. .The rules are quite different elsewhere.. .. .That's why the mouthful of feathers.. . . . <small>[ 18 March 2002, 04:10: Message edited by: gaunty ]</small>
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the Loco is back from OOL - after an alleged (and successful) work trip and concurrs that we really have no bleeding clue.. .. .I still feel those who have lost face seek retribution and justification.. .. .The next 6 months will be very interesting.. .. .10 years ago I opened a fortune cookie that said "you will livw in interesting times" which is apparently a Chinese curse.. .. .Why in hell couldnt I have skipped coffee.. .. .EWL
short flights long nights
Welcome back EWL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />
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Thanks SOPS. .. .Flew MELOOL on an international config 763 - full electric adjust seat and back on a 738 - bleeding wonderful - the 763 seat is just plain uncomfy for someone my height but I now know why men like women in leather - they smell like new aeroplanes - the 738 is an absolute gem - but I digress - yes again.. .. .QF has suddenly become very user friendly to us leaches on the butt of this industry as I think they are wary of who may be in the shadows.. .. .While the administrators drag things out as long as they can to milk every last cent - the 2002 version of Tojo is leaning over the horizon ready to pounce and they seem to know it. One very basic oriental trait is patience.. .. .Watch this space.. .. .___________________________________________________________ ______. .. .Open the pod bay doors Hal. .. .I'm sorry - I can't do that Dave
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"While the administrators drag things out as long as they can to milk every last cent.." - and ain't THAT the truth - I wonder whether we (the GP) will ever find out how much Arthur Andersen's DAILY charges are, since the FLEW deal was declared dead?. .. .And now that Andersens are amalgamating with KPMG, the longer this can be drawn out the more the opportunites to over-charge increase even further.
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Yes Kaptin M - and in the meantime they stall and find reasons not to sell aeroplanes and spares at the last second - all to feather their nests at the expense of our mates.. .. .One might also ask where the $10 a ticket AB tax has gone. There must have been hundreds of millions of dollars collected by now as the tax is levied on every single ticket issued in Australia including Internationals. Do the sums and it is a scary amount that has gone precisely nowhere that I can see.. .. .I was under the obviously mistaken belief that it was there to ensure our AN mates got what they had worked so hard for.. .. .I hope it hasnt been fed to the admin as they will no doubt put a major bend in the space time continuum to make it disappear.. .. .Once i thought we Travel dudes were leeches on the arse of the industry - Oh what underachievers we indeed are.. .. .There surely must be some accountability somewhere.. .. .I also have it on reliable authority that SQ is assembling a team for a start-up.. .. .Interesting times indeed.. .. .Oh how I wish for the good old days - F27-100s - 780 gallons underwing and 810 if I could be conned into the wing walk as Spud wouldnt do that at WNY after a nasty incident with a runaway Jet-A1 gun up un the wing.. .. .Hot day - offload everything but the crew and the catering.. .. .And we were so damned happy with life then too.. .. .Best mates. .. .EWL
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The two Marks and Andersens should not be paid one cent until the staff have received their full payout. Combet and the ACTU should hang their heads in shame for their contribution to this disaster. Total job losses over 60,000, and 22 suicides at last count.. .. .God help us!. .. .The Government and the ACTU won't. .. .(the ticket tax does not replace the jobs and lives lost)
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No Zoolander - it does not for one tiny second replace what was. At least it may help you move to the next level. My little airline is still something I think of every day and I am sure you will be the same with yours.. .. .This whole mess needs a very quick royal Commission as the degree of damage and impact on the whole community has huge effect. The collapse of Ansett is a national disaster and there is so much covering up and squabbling over the carcase going on that the people have been forgotten.. .. .The Commission should also look very deeply into the actions of Fox and Lew and their bank accounts and the reasons other bidders were overlooked while they spun the bid out as far as possible.. .. .Why am I getting a vision of a 744 with navy and yellow cheat stripes??. .. .Hang in there mates.. .. .EWL
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Early on in the administration, I heard that one of the Ansersen accountants was being charged to AN at $600 PER DAY!!! I cannot substantiate this, but I heard it very early in the piece.. .. .There could be as many as 60,000 people affected by this disaster. As one of the local pollies said out this way in regard to the Sunbury area of Melbourne, "If BHP shut down, there'd be billions pumped into Newcastle, or even if Ford shut down, Geelong would get support". . .. .One royal commision wouldn't do. You'd need one for the impact of the Tesna deal & indeed, the whole Administration farce, and you'd need another covering the 20 years leading up to the collapse. That's the one I want to see. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" />
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Buster - correct.. .. .This does indeed stretch back to when Reg sold the girl and the thin and fat men immediately sold the "owned" fleet and leased aeroplanes after no doubt stripping the profits of the sales.. .. .Everyone knew then that Australian maintained aeroplanes sold for far above market price because of the maintainence regimes.. .. .The receivers are simply the last of the buzzards on the carcase - for their own gain - not that of the former employees.. .. .A pox upon their houses.. .. .EWL
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EWL,. .Still just trying to picture Spud refuelling at WNY on top of a Friendship wing in 35 kts of wind with freezing rain! . .I'd like to see that!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />
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UTW. .. .You obviously remember Spud Whiteley well.. .. .He was one of our aviation treasures. . .. .It all was OK with grumbles when a 100 needed overwing until the day he got up there and the gun wouldnt actuate - TFD it was - boarding. . .. .Spud hopped down to the cart and fiddled and all of a sudden there wasnt a problem - except the gun was up on the wing and open and sprayed jet-A1 all over the show - including the punters boarding - not pretty.. .. .I wound up doing most of the overwings from then. poor old 100's - a cloud in the MEL circuit and they needed the extra 30 gallons.. .. .Had to have Spud paged at the Burnie football ground for a Saturday refuel many times.. .. .Regards. .. .EWL
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Buster;. .. .Guess a figure far far north of $600 per day for an Anderson accountant. These guys charge big time when appointed. $600 day would be for an assistant!. They will also charge for secretaries and even photocopies @ $0.30 a hit even though staff & copiers may well have been available at AN offices.