19 Years
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19 Years
19 years today. Good time to remember mates long gone and those still working overseas and even sadder, those who might just never come back. A loss to us all.
To those who feel like contributing something negative.....please don't.
To those who might reflect on a world past where there was a single, robust and respected pilot union...please reflect....and do something.
And to absent friends having a remembrance drink.....cheers.
Sui generis
To those who feel like contributing something negative.....please don't.
To those who might reflect on a world past where there was a single, robust and respected pilot union...please reflect....and do something.
And to absent friends having a remembrance drink.....cheers.
Sui generis
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I think what says it all for me (and I suspect most others involved, at least on the non-heroic side) was that I didn't even remember that today was the anniversary. The vast majority, admittedly after some initial pain, got on with the new life that was forced upon them and made a go of it.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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To those who might reflect on a world past where there was a single, robust and respected pilot union...please reflect....and do something.
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What you guys don't realise is that by resigning and looking from the outside of the fish bowl in, you screwed a lot of G/A pilots too. Many of you came back to G/A to fly Navajos and other light aircraft to prop up the system you had just resigned yourself from.
What do you think that did to those of those just starting out? What about those of those that were waiting to hear back from QF and told they just took a whole bunch of domestic airline pilots who had agreed to become S/Os?
This was the most poorly and stupidly planned strike in the history of Australia. What we can learn from this is to;
1. Act from a position of power by never leaving the cockpit.
2. Never resign from a position of union membership; less lose all rights within.
3. Engage a well rehearsed media machine as a spokesperson, not one of our own.
This one dispute caused an enormous amount of tension in my own family and at our own airport among former friends. I didn't "cross", another did, (a Kiwi who went to Ansett).
I have no regrets about my actions then or since, but wish the poor planning of others had not influenced our lives as they did.
What do you think that did to those of those just starting out? What about those of those that were waiting to hear back from QF and told they just took a whole bunch of domestic airline pilots who had agreed to become S/Os?
This was the most poorly and stupidly planned strike in the history of Australia. What we can learn from this is to;
1. Act from a position of power by never leaving the cockpit.
2. Never resign from a position of union membership; less lose all rights within.
3. Engage a well rehearsed media machine as a spokesperson, not one of our own.
This one dispute caused an enormous amount of tension in my own family and at our own airport among former friends. I didn't "cross", another did, (a Kiwi who went to Ansett).
I have no regrets about my actions then or since, but wish the poor planning of others had not influenced our lives as they did.
Moderator
Careful now! 
We're not going to change history or debate the perceived rights and wrongs.
A thread to remember - not to incite the usual passions!
Tail Wheel
We're not going to change history or debate the perceived rights and wrongs.
A thread to remember - not to incite the usual passions!
Tail Wheel
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Tailwheel,
I agree with you completely, but there is a lot of drowning in self pity on this issue and I don't think I have ever heard a single apology from any of the pilots who resigned for totally playing their cards the wrong way.
It is said that a good gambler never gambles more than they can afford to lose. The problem I have here is that they gambled away the chances of those that weren't directly involved in the process without our vote as we stood there with dreams of our own without so much as a pot to piss in.
The decline in standards of training with the myriad of pilot sausage factories that have sprung up, together with pay-for-training and declining salaries has been as a direct result of how poorly this part of aviation history was played out.
We must learn from our past or be doomed to repeat it.
I agree with you completely, but there is a lot of drowning in self pity on this issue and I don't think I have ever heard a single apology from any of the pilots who resigned for totally playing their cards the wrong way.
It is said that a good gambler never gambles more than they can afford to lose. The problem I have here is that they gambled away the chances of those that weren't directly involved in the process without our vote as we stood there with dreams of our own without so much as a pot to piss in.
The decline in standards of training with the myriad of pilot sausage factories that have sprung up, together with pay-for-training and declining salaries has been as a direct result of how poorly this part of aviation history was played out.
We must learn from our past or be doomed to repeat it.
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This was the most poorly and stupidly planned strike in the history of Australia.
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Are there any losers from the 24/8 dispute of 1989?
Sure are!
Scabs!...especially Ansett local scabs and Ansett o/seas scabs!
Meanwhile...the rest of us made a small fortune o/seas, and at home, and tend to feel a litle bit sorry for our scab brethrens!
(Hang on!... I think the sorry bit is going too far!)
Sure are!
Scabs!...especially Ansett local scabs and Ansett o/seas scabs!
Meanwhile...the rest of us made a small fortune o/seas, and at home, and tend to feel a litle bit sorry for our scab brethrens!
(Hang on!... I think the sorry bit is going too far!)
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"Kangaroo Court". A rather apt and all too accurate 'handle' given the comments said writer has posted here.
Maaaate, if you weren't there, (as you so obvoiusly weren't from the total lack of knowledge you display of the rather unique situation Australia's domestic pilots found themselves in 19 years ago from your posts), perhaps it would be a really good idea to not display your ignorance with such patently silly comments on this, a publuc forum.
Is this where the mods delete my post and ban me from the thread as they did for posting on another thread that a particularly colourful character with more nicknames than I have changes of shorts has recently joined VA?
Maaaate, if you weren't there, (as you so obvoiusly weren't from the total lack of knowledge you display of the rather unique situation Australia's domestic pilots found themselves in 19 years ago from your posts), perhaps it would be a really good idea to not display your ignorance with such patently silly comments on this, a publuc forum.
Is this where the mods delete my post and ban me from the thread as they did for posting on another thread that a particularly colourful character with more nicknames than I have changes of shorts has recently joined VA?
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"What you guys don't realise is that by resigning and looking from the outside of the fish bowl in, you screwed a lot of G/A pilots too. Many of you came back to G/A to fly Navajos and other light aircraft to prop up the system you had just resigned yourself from. "
I was in GA and on the executive committee of the Feds then and supported the DISPUTE pilots then and do now. What they/we were fighting for was a principle and one that very few pilots that were in GA then and probably in the airlines now demonstrate they don't have the balls to stand by themselves. I for one saw 7 of my pilots taken up by the airlines, they weren't bitching about the lack of opportunities created by the dispute.
Yes it is history, but as has been said if you don't learn from it you are bound to repeat it.
I was in GA and on the executive committee of the Feds then and supported the DISPUTE pilots then and do now. What they/we were fighting for was a principle and one that very few pilots that were in GA then and probably in the airlines now demonstrate they don't have the balls to stand by themselves. I for one saw 7 of my pilots taken up by the airlines, they weren't bitching about the lack of opportunities created by the dispute.
Yes it is history, but as has been said if you don't learn from it you are bound to repeat it.
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I'm glad you were on the "executive committee", (whoppee freakin' do!), there "Spike". Can I tell you that the executive decision to resign was a bloody stupid one?!
I "supported" the strike by not crossing the picket line. For an "executive" you don't seem to have good comprehension skills.
Yes I went overseas and 11,000 hours later, I still think it was one of the stupidest mistakes a union could have ever made.
Go drown your sorrows in your brew. I'm going out on the jetski.
I "supported" the strike by not crossing the picket line. For an "executive" you don't seem to have good comprehension skills.
Yes I went overseas and 11,000 hours later, I still think it was one of the stupidest mistakes a union could have ever made.
Go drown your sorrows in your brew. I'm going out on the jetski.
Moderator
"...but as has been said if you don't learn from it you are bound to repeat it."
It is nineteen years ago. The events of that time are now set in history. Each of us involved in aviation at that time have our own opinions and no amount of debate will change anything.
There will be those who agree with your opinion and those who don't. Accept each is entitled to their own opinions - and move on!
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We should definitely try to learn from this dispute.
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"In the case of Bob Hawke, his action of laying at the feet of his friend (Sir Peter Abeles) the office of Prime Minister was unprecedented and should greatly disturb all Australians, irrespective of their political persuasion. This was clearly a corrupt abuse of power and should be the subject of a Royal Commission in its own right.
Finally, it is worth noting that one year after the start of the Pilots' Dispute, the industrial relations 'club' (consisting of the Hawke Government, some significant entrepreneurs like Sir Peter Abeles, the ACTU and the IRC) had embraced a new industrial relations policy based on direct negotiations between employers and employees called "enterprise bargaining".
The fact that the Pilots' Federation had been negotiating with their employers under the auspices of this same industrial policy for the previous 30 years appears to have escaped the attention of most observers.
When it is remembered that the Pilots' insistence that negotiations with their employers be free of outside interference, was a classic example of this new policy, then the hypocrisy of the industrial relations club almost defies belief."
----------------------------------------------------------------
"In the case of Bob Hawke, his action of laying at the feet of his friend (Sir Peter Abeles) the office of Prime Minister was unprecedented and should greatly disturb all Australians, irrespective of their political persuasion. This was clearly a corrupt abuse of power and should be the subject of a Royal Commission in its own right.
Finally, it is worth noting that one year after the start of the Pilots' Dispute, the industrial relations 'club' (consisting of the Hawke Government, some significant entrepreneurs like Sir Peter Abeles, the ACTU and the IRC) had embraced a new industrial relations policy based on direct negotiations between employers and employees called "enterprise bargaining".
The fact that the Pilots' Federation had been negotiating with their employers under the auspices of this same industrial policy for the previous 30 years appears to have escaped the attention of most observers.
When it is remembered that the Pilots' insistence that negotiations with their employers be free of outside interference, was a classic example of this new policy, then the hypocrisy of the industrial relations club almost defies belief."