Looking for a cheap twin for hour building

[hueyshuffle]

Hey guys, me and a couple of mates are considering buying bulk twin hours if possible. We're looking for a cheap twin to do our hour building in. Type rating in the twin (or a check flight) and then approx 25 hours solo hire. So we're looking for 50 to 75 hours. If the deal's good we could probably get a few more of us involved as well so up to 100-150 hours of hire.

We're flexible with dates and are more than happy to fly when the aircraft is anticipated to have a quiet spell. All of us have Australian CPLs and between 500 and 1500 hours tt and references, as well as MEIRs. Any information appreciated. PM if you'd rather not post. Also anyone with advice for us regarding whether this a good idea or a bad one please post or PM. Can fly in Oz or NZ.

Cheers
HS

[WannaBeBiggles]

Check aviationtrader.com.au, there was a duchess going cheap last month, not sure if it's still listed. If not I might have the pdf in my download cache somewhere.

[Rate1]

Hi Guys

Before you go off spending good money on getting 25 hours of multi command time and expecting to get 25 hours free sitting in the right seat, please check with your local CASA FOI and the flight testing office. For a META you require 50 hours Command time. The CAO says 25 hours command and 25 hours ICUS. The ICUS refers to an ICUS approved captain sitting in the right seat while the left seat pilot logs ICUS as charter companies do for new captains. I would urge you to check. You don't want to show up for you test and be turned away.

[hueyshuffle]

Cheap twin

Rate 1 & WannaBeBiggles

Thanks for the replies.

WannaBeBiggles - was that a Duchess for sale? Because unfortunately we're too poor to go around buying planes. Had a look on there but there didn't seem to be any for hire??

Rate 1-Thanks for the heads up. In my case it is for an NZ META which is 25 pic (no ICUS) as opposed to the 50 in OZ. But will definately look into it if we end up doing it on the OZ license for the OZ META. Will also pass the advice/warning onto those who have PM'd me who are in Oz.

Everyone else-Thanks for the PM's with offers/leads and also those showing interest. Still deciding if I/we will do this or try find a job in a twin instead...To those who showed interest, I'm going to get in touch with the people who sent prices and details through and ask them if they're alright with me passing those details onto you guys. Share and share alike...

Cheers
HS

[LewC]

Huey,that Duchess is still advertised.$290/hr.(air switch) wet.Check in the "Private Hire" category.

[GABLUES]

can someone tell me what an ICUS approved captain is? what special qualifications does he or she hold over and above META (Aus)

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

May not necessarily be an instructor at all. Must be approved by the operating company to conduct such training though. You may find there is the implication, if not the requirement that the pilot flying as ICUS must actually be employed by the company as well. They must at least hold a commercial license.

[hueyshuffle]

Cheap Twin

Someone kindly sent these along :

"Company called Sunland Aviation in Brisbane has a pretty nice Seneca that could be available. They have done hour-building deals
Try: [email protected]"

Furthermore, LewC and Biggles are Quite right, there is a duchess available at Bankstown which is advertised on AvTrader and which someone PM'd me about:

DUCHESS B76 fully IFR, avail for PVT or long term x/hire. $290.00/hr wet (Air Switch). A/c based Bankstown. Ph 0438 886 618.

More as I get them

HS

[Checkboard]

The ICUS refers to an ICUS approved captain sitting in the right seat while the left seat pilot logs ICUS as charter companies do for new captains.

can someone tell me what an ICUS approved captain is? what special qualifications does he or she hold over and above META (Aus)

You're right - there isn't an "ICUS Captain", and the captian on a flight in which ICUS is logged doesn't need a META.

CAR 5.40 Pilot acting in command under supervision

(1) A person may fly an aircraft as pilot acting in command under
supervision only if:
(a) the person holds:
(i) a commercial pilot licence or an air transport pilot licence;
or
(i) a certificate of validation that has effect as if it were a
commercial pilot licence or an air transport pilot licence;
and
(b) the person holds an aircraft endorsement that authorises him or
her to fly the aircraft as pilot in command; and
(c) if the person proposes to carry out an activity for which a flight
crew rating is required—the person holds a flight crew rating, or
grade of flight crew rating, that permits him or her to carry out
that activity as pilot in command of the aircraft concerned; and
(d) the person is the co-pilot of the aircraft; and
(e) the operator of the aircraft permits the person to fly the aircraft as
pilot acting in command under supervision; and
(f) the pilot in command of the aircraft is appointed for the purpose
by the operator of the aircraft.
Penalty: 10 penalty units.
(2) The operator of an aircraft may permit a person to fly an aircraft as
pilot acting in command only if:
(a) the person holds:
(i) a commercial pilot licence, or an air transport pilot licence,
that authorises him or her to fly the aircraft; or
(ii) a certificate of validation that has effect as if it were such a
licence; and
(b) the person holds an endorsement that authorises him or her to fly
the aircraft as pilot in command; and
(c) if the person carries out an activity for which a flight crew rating
is required—the person holds a flight crew rating, or grade of
flight crew rating, that permits him or her to carry out that
activity as pilot in command of the aircraft concerned.

So it needs to be a [commercial] operation, in which you are assigned as co-pilot by the operator and you hold an aircraft endorsement and instrument rating appropriate for command (and a license which permits you to be a crew member for that operation), and the operator has specifically approved the co-pilot to act ICUS.

It makes sense, when you examine it - the operator nominates a commander to make the important decisions for the conduct of that flight. If that nominated person intends to devolve those decisions onto a co-pilot the operator needs to:

1. know it is happening, and
2. approve the operation taking place in that manner.

This is normally done by the operator specifying in their Check & Training manual which exercises are to be conducted as ICUS, but they are just as able (if they wish) to include a paragraph authorising ICUS on line flights, or indeed simply approve each operation verbally.

[Swine Facipic]

Cheap Twin For Hire.

I just inquired about the rates in and around melbourne.

PA-44 $391/hr vdo wet to $440/hr vdo wet.
beechcraft travelair $352/hr vdo wet

I was not able to find a cheaper twin solo hire rate.
If you know a place where I can get a better deal for about 50 hours time building.

Cheers
Swine Facipic

[wishiwasupthere]

Cheaper than $350/hr wet for a twin?????

Good luck. That sounds like a good price to me, considering I am paying $310/hr for a C182.

[Horatio Leafblower]

$363 for Curtis's PA-30

Ray Eckinci (Air Combat Australia) has one next door for about $340 if you ask nicely. It is doing a bit of work he tells me, so you might have to fit in.

Cheers

[hueyshuffle]

Read below

Wishiwasupthere - Rough. 310 an hour is a ripoff...surely there's gotta be something cheaper around??

Swine Facipic - Saw that you've posted that you're looking around Melbourne. If you're willing to travel a bit there's the post below

"DUCHESS B76 fully IFR, avail for PVT or long term x/hire. $290.00/hr wet (Air Switch). A/c based Bankstown. Ph 0438 886 618."

If anyone has any other tips for cheap ac hire share and share alike as I'm sure someone will benefit from the contacts..and I'm sure you'll get a doz out of it if you drop a not too subtle hint...

[haileybury777]

If your willing to go up to America, APPP offers 84.00 USD an hour on a dutchess. 25/50 and 100 hr programs is what i hear from a mate there. PM if you want contact details

cheers!

[help me jebus]

1111111111

[chimbu warrior]

APPP offers 84.00 USD an hour on a dutchess

Don't want to be the grinch here, but I find this low rate a bit too good to be true. Given that fuel in the US is only slightly cheaper than in Oz, the rate quoted would seem to be fuel only. Are you sure it is not a simulator/FTD?

Aside from that, take the Travelair. Lovely twin to fly.

[desert goat]

The trouble with the cheap twin programs on offer in the US is this- they have a couple of weird loopholes in their regs which allow more than one person to be logging PIC at any one time- so a lot of these places are advertising rates based on "shared time"-i.e. two PPL's, one flies under the hood, the other looks out the window, both log PIC time, and each pay, for example, your $84 dollars an hour.. When I did a BFR there, my instructor went to put an hour PIC AND an hour dual in my logbook for the one 1-hour dual flight, and he was surprised when I told him to leave the "command" column blank. Strange but true!
That said- there are still lots of really good deals to be found in the US, just read the fine print and know what you are actually buying.

[calmaashs]

Hi all

Just a slight variation on this thread, I fly for a company that dosnt fly at night but requires activated ATPL for command so im short a little night.

Im looking for a cheap nvfr or ifr single in either sydney/brisbane or perth area for a block of 70-90 hrs over a 4-6 week period.

please PM me if you have an aircraft available or know of one.

cheers