Weather - good to go?
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Weather - good to go?
Hi guys, I'm just in the transition phase of going from a PPL to a CPL and have found the most challenging aspect to be the weather.
At PPL standard it's fine to go and "have a look" if the weather is marginal, however the CPL standard requires that if you go, generally you should get there (obviously within reason).
I generally take the VMC criteria as my criteria and look for trends that may reduce the conditions to below VMC. I know its all about "having your own limits" so i'd like to know some of the basic limits CPL holders out there have.
It seems to be such a grey area (no pun intended) where each pilot will tell you something different.
At PPL standard it's fine to go and "have a look" if the weather is marginal, however the CPL standard requires that if you go, generally you should get there (obviously within reason).
I generally take the VMC criteria as my criteria and look for trends that may reduce the conditions to below VMC. I know its all about "having your own limits" so i'd like to know some of the basic limits CPL holders out there have.
It seems to be such a grey area (no pun intended) where each pilot will tell you something different.
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Hi there,
You are asking for trouble if you are serious about what you say. Please say its just something you picked up from some clown and not what you would actually do.
At this stage you are a VFR pilot it is reckless to operate in conditions where VMC may not be possible, ie marginal.
Its fairly black and white to me. Do not fly in condtions you and your aircraft cannot cope with. No grey areas here.
Safe flying
You are asking for trouble if you are serious about what you say. Please say its just something you picked up from some clown and not what you would actually do.
At this stage you are a VFR pilot it is reckless to operate in conditions where VMC may not be possible, ie marginal.
Its fairly black and white to me. Do not fly in condtions you and your aircraft cannot cope with. No grey areas here.
Safe flying
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Hrm. Atlas, let's give him a go. I was equally as confused when I was training.
Mate, the thing you have to realize is you just have to do what it takes to get your CPL ticket. The learning starts there.
In the commercial world, "having a look" when the weather is marginal may happen on a daily basis. Usually your boss will expect you to go, because there's usually "a way through."
Learning to fly can be difficult and often confusing. A good instructor will help you with your issues on interpreting the weather.
Mate, the thing you have to realize is you just have to do what it takes to get your CPL ticket. The learning starts there.
In the commercial world, "having a look" when the weather is marginal may happen on a daily basis. Usually your boss will expect you to go, because there's usually "a way through."
Learning to fly can be difficult and often confusing. A good instructor will help you with your issues on interpreting the weather.
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Sorry marginal may be a bit misleading. Rather, i'm referring to being under less pressure to "get there" if you are not entirely satisfied with the conditions. Do keep in mind at PPL standard you would probably not stretch your own criteria to the bare minimum of being legally VMC.
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I think it is very hard to quantify whether to go or not, each situation is different and different people may come up with different answers and/or different solutions!
My two pieces of advice would be:
-Never depart into weather beyond your skills (if you are at all apprehensive about the flight, DON'T GO!! The last place you want to be is in the air if you have doubts!)
-Then if you do decide to go, make sure you always have an escape route. (There is nothing worse than watching the door close behind you!)
Hope this helps a little.
Cheers, HH.
My two pieces of advice would be:
-Never depart into weather beyond your skills (if you are at all apprehensive about the flight, DON'T GO!! The last place you want to be is in the air if you have doubts!)
-Then if you do decide to go, make sure you always have an escape route. (There is nothing worse than watching the door close behind you!)
Hope this helps a little.
Cheers, HH.
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I know a fella that failed his CPL test because he said the weather was "marginal" and told the testing officer (acting as pax) the flight was cancelled due weather.
CPL FORECAST weather is easy legal=go illegal=cancelled. Unless you can give a good reason why the flight might not be a good idea i.e out the window weather looks worse than forecast or turbulence. In both cases you would tell your pax "there is a chance we will not make the destination" or "the ride to the destination will be uncomfortable would you like to continue." If you have a nice testing officer and the conditions are a bit ****ty he will say "that was very professional I think we will leave it for a more favourable day." Or he still wants to continue the flight.
If you get a job and decide to cancel the flight due weather and and the conditions were still legal, you had better have a reason to tell the boss why you cancelled. 8 out of 10 times "I feel the conditions are outside my skill level" will get the response "I feel your skill level isn't good enough for my company piss off."
P.S. If you feel uncomfortable with the conditions say to pax stuff like "It is very unlikely that we will make your destination and if we have to turn back there will be no refund." Or "the flight will be very uncomfortable today and I would only suggest to continue if you are have and are comfortable flying in small aircraft." Then let them decide, and you can tell the boss "The pax decided it wasn't worth doing the flight today."
CPL FORECAST weather is easy legal=go illegal=cancelled. Unless you can give a good reason why the flight might not be a good idea i.e out the window weather looks worse than forecast or turbulence. In both cases you would tell your pax "there is a chance we will not make the destination" or "the ride to the destination will be uncomfortable would you like to continue." If you have a nice testing officer and the conditions are a bit ****ty he will say "that was very professional I think we will leave it for a more favourable day." Or he still wants to continue the flight.
If you get a job and decide to cancel the flight due weather and and the conditions were still legal, you had better have a reason to tell the boss why you cancelled. 8 out of 10 times "I feel the conditions are outside my skill level" will get the response "I feel your skill level isn't good enough for my company piss off."
P.S. If you feel uncomfortable with the conditions say to pax stuff like "It is very unlikely that we will make your destination and if we have to turn back there will be no refund." Or "the flight will be very uncomfortable today and I would only suggest to continue if you are have and are comfortable flying in small aircraft." Then let them decide, and you can tell the boss "The pax decided it wasn't worth doing the flight today."
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As a CPL holder on a commercial flight, the paying passenger expects you as the PIC to take them from A to B safely. The weather may permit you to depart 'legally' but if the weather is marginal this may not always be the safest course of action as your experience and judgement will ultimately determine your actions and comfort zone. At the end of the day...the boss may want you to go because he has a financial obligation to keep the aircraft flying at all costs. However, your only obligation is to the fare paying passengers and if you are not comfortable with the weather then the simple decision is to delay the flight. As long as you have a reason and can justify the decision then in my opinion the boss has no argument. When I first started doing VFR charter out of Darwin (after 2 years of VFR instructing) my comfort zone was no where near as broad as guys who had done a few wet seasons. I had a few diversions and flight delays initially but after a while it was easier to read the weather and recognise my limitations and boundaries. Quite often, as long as the weather was legal and I thought that a safe departure could be achieved then I would have a look. I always kept an eye on my options (diversion ports, fuel, 180 turn etc) and also kept an eye on that 'sinking feeling' in your stomach. That was always an indication to me that I was loosing control of the situation rather than taking command of it and a new course of action is required.
So I guess as far as CPL training goes, know your limitations, know the rules and justify your decisions with logical actions.
So I guess as far as CPL training goes, know your limitations, know the rules and justify your decisions with logical actions.
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A great instructor once told me. "As a CPL pilot you should be able to fly in anything legal." so your limits should be the ones written in the books. Weather knowledge on the other hand is something else
Local weather knowledge is an example, for instance I know that on a hot, still day around 1330 to 1400 in my area the wind will change to easterly often gusting with windshear making it difficult to land it will then calm down around 1500, as a result I land on the runway with less trees around and uphill slope regard less of the wind sock because I know the wind shear at the other end will be far worse than the tail wind and at that time the wind sock will change every few minutes. Also if can see the tops of relatively bright white clouds to the south and beyond my little valley I suspect there is more than likely a complete low cloud cover over the mountains, so I take a little drive to check. Both of these will not get a mention in the forecast.
What I'm trying to get at is as a CPL pilot your limits should be the legal ones (that is what they are there for). However you can work on getting to know what the weather will do beyond or more localised to forecast which will make you a safer pilot and you may even get such an understanding where you can say "The weather is going to close in beyond that forecast and we will not make the destination, to save time and money I'll cancel the flight." by that stage your probably a chief pilot anyway.
(it makes sense in my head)
Don't push yourself but try to get more comfortable in weather while training. Give yourself scenarious on navs like the weather is closing in where are my outs, either another strip, home or continue, pretend there is a TS over your destination, do you hold or goto an alternate. Practice cross winds and remember TS are only around for at most an hour and oyu can usualy see them coming.
Local weather knowledge is an example, for instance I know that on a hot, still day around 1330 to 1400 in my area the wind will change to easterly often gusting with windshear making it difficult to land it will then calm down around 1500, as a result I land on the runway with less trees around and uphill slope regard less of the wind sock because I know the wind shear at the other end will be far worse than the tail wind and at that time the wind sock will change every few minutes. Also if can see the tops of relatively bright white clouds to the south and beyond my little valley I suspect there is more than likely a complete low cloud cover over the mountains, so I take a little drive to check. Both of these will not get a mention in the forecast.
What I'm trying to get at is as a CPL pilot your limits should be the legal ones (that is what they are there for). However you can work on getting to know what the weather will do beyond or more localised to forecast which will make you a safer pilot and you may even get such an understanding where you can say "The weather is going to close in beyond that forecast and we will not make the destination, to save time and money I'll cancel the flight." by that stage your probably a chief pilot anyway.
(it makes sense in my head)
Don't push yourself but try to get more comfortable in weather while training. Give yourself scenarious on navs like the weather is closing in where are my outs, either another strip, home or continue, pretend there is a TS over your destination, do you hold or goto an alternate. Practice cross winds and remember TS are only around for at most an hour and oyu can usualy see them coming.
