(speechless)

But sufferers are not alone, and even the UK's leading consumer organisation has given it's verdict

Windows 10 software condemned by Which? - BBC News

Having worked on large and complex telephone systems, and alongside some of the best brains in the UK on Nortel systems, I would never, ever, commit to a new operating system until it's thoroughly shaken-down, field-tested, and patched.

W7 is just reaching delightful, stable maturity. Just about the time for MS to declare it "end of life"

XP was faster and smoother after SP3. I still have a machine running it,and if it wasn't for the age of the machine, it's struggle to keep up, and Google no longer supporting Chrome on it, there I would stay.

Meanwhile, my wife lost her work wifi on her W10 machine yesterday for no apparent reason at all. It goes on.

Surely the successful case brought by Teri Goldstein against Microsoft, after its invasive Windows 10 'upgrade' ruined her business computer, sets a precedent?

See: 'I urge everyone to fight back' ? woman wins $10k from Microsoft over Windows 10 misery ? The Register

My back up Win8.1 computer was 'upgraded' without my agreement; fortunately it still works OK.

I am getting very fed up with updates that last for ages when I try to turn my laptop off .... only to be rewarded with long delays restarting because Microsoft have been upgrading without my permission and although they claim that nothing has changed .... plenty has including losing my audio which won't come back even when I reset to factory settings. GGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

(And there ain't a blind bit I can do about it it seems ..................)

Anniversary Upgrade? Yes, it downloaded (automatiaclly, thanks, Microsoft), but proceeded to foul the whole system up. I managed to roll back, after a fashion, but it screwed up the whole net. Every website was httpS, with a warning that the security certificate was invalid, and I couldn't access it. Money to a professional, who managed to sort that out, but I still don't like Win 10. Win 8.1 I liked, and it wasn't until I spent a couple of computerless days with an old laptop that I remembered how good XP was.

Has anyone had their BIOS utterly wrecked via W10 and a subsequent update?

My daughter's Asus X555L refuses to boot, despite us suspecting that it's a battery/power management issue, and doing the various common tricks to reset.

This is the equivalent of someone changing the lock on my front door without my permission, locking it, chopping all the keys in half, and posting them back through the letterbox.

Is there any money for help via The Gates Foundation?

Problem solved. Buy a new computer! My first A.U. killed my computer but resuccitated by my techno. Second compulsory update by MS successfully killed the computer finally. Techno could not resuccitate, so first post from my new computer. MS has definitely dropped a googly in my opinion and reparations should be offered.

Another annoying issue that's just started for me is W10 resetting several file associations (to Microsoft apps) from my preferred ones (e.g. from VLC to 'Films & TV') because 'a problem occurred'.

My keyboard has stopped working on my laptop.w10 Have checked drivers etc all apparently working ok. Using on screen kb. Any ideas would be appreciated

One of my machines automatically upgraded itself from Win 7 to Win 10.

Seemed alright at first, but then I found some of my carefully organised files in a tangle and a lot of small to medium niggles that took a while to put right.

Downloaded a Win 10 image and did a straight install rather than an upgrade - blessing the fact that I keep my data on a separate drive from my operating system (in all OS'es). Much smoother.

But Windows still sort of expects you to to have everything under one roof as it were and it took a lot of farting around with links and junction points to get it all kosher.

And as for getting rid of that pesky Windows.old folder - phew! - had to do some mega fiddling to get rid of that - lots of permission problems....

But all in all I quite like Win 10 - especially if you install Classic Shell - [http://www.classicshell.net/] which is completely free and makes Win 10 look and behave in a civilized fashion (none of those damn panes unless you want 'em.

Mac

[But I'll certainly hold off on the Anniversary upgrade - which is even now still really a beta release though they won't tell you that]

PS: If you want to stop Win 7 auto-upgrading itself you can tweak a few things in the Registry or spare yourself the trouble by installing the completely free GWX Control Panel [to be found at [Ultimate Outsider - Software Downloads] which does the job for you very nicely. But I guess the free but forced upgrade is over now - you'll have to pay for it. Best plan is still to start with a clean Win 10 install though and not upgrade Win 7.

An even better plan is Linux Mint or one of the BSD flavours....or go over to Apple there my upgrade from Lion to El Capitan (skipping Mavericks) was smooth as a tomcat pissing on glass....

Ahem!

I realise that this is too late for many, but for those who are managing to hang on to their
WIN 7 or 8 systems I can recommend a free application called Never10.

I installed it a few months back and have never heard any more about upgrading to Win10. Prior to this I had been getting nag messages almost daily and large WIN10 files were being downloaded onto my PC without my knowledge or permission.

My windows 10 installation on an Acer Aspire just crashed after a couple of months and the entire operating system is gone. I'm in an endless loop of 'automatic repair - can't repair' that can't be broken out of.

Windows is not fit for use.

OTOH my Acer Aspire was screwed completely when I was trying to fix my anti-virus, upgraded to Win 10 fixed lots. Agree about cLassic view, used it for years. With the anniversary update it lost my printer, soon got it back.

I went back from W10 to W7 - in the Security settings is a function that will do this automatically, but within 30 days istr. A lot of metadata was lost from my music files ...
The main problem I had was no W10 drivers for many of my peripherals - USB turntable, Thai language keyboard, etc ...

Microsoft will only stop abusing their users when their users stop buying Windows machines.

I doubt that day is far off, now.

Just for what its worth ! (Verry little)
 

I suppose by now everyone affected by this change in update method by Microsoft, that is: the Monolithic Update replacing the "Pick Your Own" methodology plus separate itemized updates for Office 2007; has met this "Enhanced Experience"

On my Win 8.1 PC, a Dell Opterion; the whole process took about 25 minutes, an update, a hang ! and two restart's -no BSOD. The update was slow and the all or nothing update, leaves users vulnerable to the problems caused by hidden driver incompatibilities lurking within previous granular update failures of Windows Updates.

Take a look at the update histories before applying this all or nothing update. Failures lurking there can indicate potential trouble and see if you can trace the cause of the failure and try to fix the problem and I know that it's not always easy.

Always make an image copy of your System drive if at all possible before letting the update beast loose on you system. I'm reasonably computer literate but general users really have a problem by this System design change by Microsoft

It's not just Windows 10 Users affected Windows 7,8 & 8.1 users are now ensnared by this change ! - My ancient Vista Business PC is suddenly starting to look very attractive in the last 6 Months of its useful life.

[Edit A separate bag of Rats for another thread "Update ate my BIOS" I'm cautious about the validity of this one. Any experts?]


CAT III

My Windows 7 PC isn't. It's only used for video editing and games, so I turned off updates a while back to avoid Microsoft malware.

Well, that and because the 'update service' had started burning up an entire core all the time to do... who knows what?

MG23
 

I stand to be corrected if Win 7 is not afflicted by this "Improvement" - I thought is was, if not please accept my apologies - Updating (attempting ) Vista Business PC as I type this - Not any sign of any updates as its EOL

CAT III

A recent update of Windows 10 left considerable problems in its wake as regards my audio drivers (at least that's what my expert friend said they were) on my Surface. It required a return to factory settings and then reinstallation of all programs .... thank goodness for regular back ups to an external hard disk to keep my work intact.

I do find it a concern that these 'updates' happen/are forced upon me when I'm not expecting them, leading to dead time both on shut down and on switching on my computer after a 'shut down update'. I suppose that's new technology for you and progress ... but sometimes I'd feel happier with the same old same old .... my Windows7 home computer is far more user friendly even if it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of 10 - most of which I don't use/need.

Rusty Sparrow - had exactly the same, same time scale too. You may be able to resolve it by starting up and loading from a Windows 10 disk, don't think there is any other way. Got half way through a re-load and the HDD packed up! Don't think I can blame that on Windows 10 though.

Windows 10
 

About 12 months ago I purchased a Toshiba Laptop with Windows 10 already installed. It takes an age to boot up! At first it had lots of pop-ups but an IT Engineer made these go away. It is OK once fired up but as I say it takes ages.

What's your definition of an "age"? I have an ancient Lenovo laptop (c2007) sporting 2GB RAM and it starts Win10 from a hard drive in 45 seconds to the log in screen and usable in less than 3 minutes. That's for a plain Win10 installation, not a laptop manufacturers installation.

You might want to look at all the extra crap Toshiba has lumbered you with loading at startup before you blame Win10.

FWIW Ubuntu is usable in 1:20 on the same laptop.

For my surface, once Microsoft initiates updates on shut down it can take up to 2.5 hours ... and on restart at least 10 mins ... but I'm no techie and perhaps there are buttons I need to push (or toggle) somewhere on the control panel ...

My HP Pavilion TouchSmart 10-e011sa 10.1" laptop has never been very quick. Initially it had Win8.1, but Micro$oft 'upgraded' it to Win10 without my knowledge or approval...

Internet connection was poor; I have 70Mbps Virgin broadband and get 74Mbps on my Dell laptop, but the HP struggles to get more than 12-13. Neither does it have 5GHz WiFi connectivity, which was a surprise.

That was bad enough, but over the last month it has been crashing with some obscure 'Thread stuck in device driver' message popping up. Fortunately I've paid for an extended care plan from CurrysPCWorldDigitalDixonsComet so it'll be going back next week for some work...

Beagle
 

Seeketh and ye shall find:

How to fix Windows 10 Thread Stuck In Device Driver error - windows 10 - Windows 10

Give this a bash.

CAT III

Thank you, CATIII-NDB, but I've already tried that without success....:sad:

Now that you're aware it happens just reinstall Classic Shell and get on with life!

It's in the EULA for W10, you no longer own the software, Microsoft does and can choose to alter it at any time without your consent.

You never have "owned" Windows.

OK - point taken - apologies tendered and I've deleted the post.

For better or worse MS has taken the approach that if it thinks the program is incompatible with the Win10 update it will uninstall it. Not unreasonable from a system stability and usability perspective - users do tend to get upset when their systems stop working or eat their data after an update.

Well, I went to collect my laptop from CurrysPCWorldDigitalDixonsComet today after its repair.....

To find that the operating system had been corrupted. But as well as updating the BIOS, they'd rolled back the OS to the original Win 8.1 state of over 2 years ago...

It was also covered in greasy finger prints and marks where they'd attached repair stickers. Whereas when I handed it in, it was in as new condition.

I refused to accept it until they've restored the current 'anniversary' version of Win 10 - they also said that if I wanted them to restore MS Office, they would charge me £35 even though the system is under extended warranty until July 2019...

I doubt they would have rolled it back but reinstalled the original OS. i.e. returned it to the state you bought it in.

BEagle, did you buy the 'service' with a Visa or some-such?

I'd be fuming about that and if within the time-scales, resort to the protection of the credit company. The problem will probably be the nature of the purchase inasmuch as it requires decision-making to effect a repair. However, that sounds like blatant bullying to me.

You were entitled, if not obliged by the owners of the software, to have the upgrade. I can not see how it's acceptable to be presented with an out of date OS following what is supposed to be skilled support.

This is a bit of a grey area where consumer rights are concerned. You buy the physical computer but the installed software/operating system usually has terms and conditions to which you must agree.

PC World probably have a clause in their extended warrantee to the effect that it only covers fixing faults in the physical parts of the computer and restoring software that was originally supplied with the computer, or installed and set up by them.

As a computer user you are free to choose from a huge variety of operating systems and supporting programs. It would be unreasonable to expect PC World or any other supplier to be keen on providing support and roll back for anything other than the software originally supplied by the manufacturer at the time the computer was purchased.

A good general rule of thumb is that software updates should be sourced from the computer manufacturer and not directly from Microsoft. The version supplied direct from Microsoft is generic and should work with most machines, but there are certain parts that are specifically fine tuned and tailored by computer manufacturers to work with their specific hardware set up.

Hewlett Packard in my experience can be a bit slow rolling out tailored versions of Windows updates. That can be a bit frustrating, especially as the default settings of many programs look at the software developer sites rather than Hewlett Packard's support site for updates. That appears to be the source of most incompatibilities and problems that occured with my system.

Good luck with trying to get your computer fixed to your satisfaction. I fear it will become a long and tedious process for the reasons explained above. There is no reason that your computer should come back from repair in anything other than a pristine state. Greasy fingerprints and dirt should never be evident on the casing and are unacceptable.

Reasonable? I'm not sure about that. The cost was for a service, not soft or hardware. I would expect them to take all reasonable care of the installed software even if not repair it per se.


Even cars these days are reliant on the software being in perfect order. The darn things soon let us know if it isn't.

If the OS is corrupt requiring a re-installation of the OS how were they meant to return it to the modified condition you gave it to them in? How would they know what that modified condition specifically was? The responsibility for that falls to you and your back-ups.

Although the BIOS had become corrupted somehow, it wouldn't have taken a rocket scientist to have noticed that the laptop was running Win10 'anniversary', not the >2 year old version of Win8.1 with which it was returned, grubby paw prints fully embodied.

After I went back again to collect the laptop after the store had reinstalled Win10 plus all the updates, it took me a couple of days to remove all the junk 'start' icons and other 'things-for-kids' which the puerile Win10 rams down your throat, reinstall the anti virus, reinstall MS Office, create desktop shortcuts, restore the desktop background, restore the HomeGroup, reinstall the printer etc etc....

To be honest, most of the PITA is due to Windows-bloody-Ten! I far, far preferred the functionality of WinXP, although Win7 is almost as good. But Win10 and Office 2013 between them really are very poor substitutes as far as HMI and funcitionality are concerned.

And don't start me on that Cortana bolleaux!

It really is an investment in time to get everything working again and now that one can not just plonk in a spare drive, I'm starting to think the small sum for a second PC is probably worth it. I was going to offload the i5 dual core once the quad was commissioned, but not now. It can just come out for updating and backups. I'm not sure if a laptop would qualify for this job as they are A/ More valuable by far. B/Not as fixable. C/Not possible to fit a huge ('Red' for example) drive for backup. I know little about long-life 2.5" drives.


Yes, I was surprised one needed cortana for Windows to function so not possible to zap it altogether. I do turn everything off however, which happily leaves the box for searching. It seems possible to turn any item back on if needed.

I've created a restore point called 'Microsoft Edge only' which is also auto-dated and timed. Next one will hopefully be 'Firefox and Office' etc., etc.

But still I'm risking everything on one drive - fast as it is. (25 seconds from pressing the power button to active desktop.) I know they meld Apps with the OS but while having the full un-installed copy on another partition buys some insurance, there's nothing like having a separate boot drive which can also back up top priority files. One remote drive as well and One can start to breath easy.

Dear Rivits (again)
 

2.5" drives do tend to be more life sensitive in terms of operating temperatures. There are statistically valid studies out there.

You may consider buying a Laptop capable of accommodating both a SSD and a HDD. Off hand I cannot think of one but I did own an Ailenware Laptop that had this capability.
OK modern SSD do have lots of what is referred to as Over-provisioning. In other words The physical write/read capacity of the SSD is a lot more than its data holding capacity. (the same applies to Magnetic media too but SSD's are by their physics different.

The specialist Tech web pages contain the required Info.

To conclude from a professional data storage perspective, if you are going SSD, make systematic regular copies of your critical data and make systematic regular image backups so that using the methods previously noted.

The problem being SSD's do fail and without warning.

CAT III

Despite its alleged repair and reinstallation of Win10, my HP is still freezing and crashing...

31 Oct - rang Knowhow who advised a short test. That showed a C:drive error, so they told me that once that was corrected, to check again.

I did - no better.

1 Nov - rang Knowhow again, this time they advised an extended system test, then to check again.

I did - no better.

2 Nov - rang Knowhow again, this time they advised a system reset to reinstall Win10, then my antivirus program, then check again.

I did - still freezing and crashing, with the occasional 'Thread stuck in device driver' BSOD and reboot. I rang Knowhow again and they told me that there wasn't anything more which they could recommend over the phone, so to take the computer back to CurrysPCWorldDigitalDixonsComet again...

During the evening, the computer managed to download and install more Win10 updates, but it still doesn't work correctly. This morning it froze yet again; after a restart I tried watching YouTube and that was nigh on impossible - audio crackling, a few seconds of motion then long periods of static image...

Knowhow have been very courteous and understanding, but the computer will going back to the shop today on double secret probation - last chance before it gets an involuntary flying lesson!