I would say
 

A linux sticky would be enough.

Why does one need to sticky an entire operating system? Surely, if someone is having problems and posts here, then those who can help will answer (as will those who simply Google quickly, but c'est la vie). Stickying a thread doesn't make it any more useful.

Whats the pro's and cons of all the different flavours of Linux?

Must admit in my IT days is you had a sparc you used solaris and if you had a SG you used IRIX and you just had to live with the differences. Gawd I used to hate those Solaris patch CD's

Hmm.... you are opening a right old can of worms there.

Much the same as asking :
Whats the pro's and cons of Airbus vs Boeing ?
Whats the pro's and cons of Religion X vs Religion Y ?

No clearcut answer .... one consideration could be the commercial backing contributing to the quality of certain distributions.... but that's not something the "open source" community likes to talk about .... :ok:

I actually started writing something about this last night, but it got too long. I think that for the average (non-geeky) user, hardware support is the big issue, and I'm happy to say that things are getting better all the time. I've heard good things about Red Hat / Fedora, Mandriva and a few others, but I've been using Ubuntu versions for the last couple of years exclusively, so that's all I can really comment on. On my netbook (eee PC 1000) I had to tweak it to get it going the first time, but they now support it directly, and the "Netbook Remix" version comes with a "front end" adapted to the smaller screen.

Another question is the "look and feel" you want. If you really need it to be as much like Windows as possible, look for one that uses KDE as its graphical interface: Mandriva, Kubuntu. If you like something cleaner and a bit more UNIX-like, look for Gnome: Ubuntu, SuSE. I believe that Fedora installs both by default, and on the others you can always switch from one to the other after installing some extra bits.

Wot bnt said!

I've tried 'em all (or close). My brain is KDE rather than Gnome, which colours my opinion.

All the distros I tried had little foibles - probably unique to my hardware and my wacky approach to what I wanted to do with the machine.

If I were equipping a new PC and not using Windows 7, it would be Fedora.
The next person, no doubt, would choose something different. The individual distros are all supremely competent, although some require an element of geekdom to get the best out of them.

Errors or "doesn't work" can be challenging. Sometimes, Google will find the complete fix instructions. Other times, an innocent question on a Forum will elicit a stream of abuse.

The amount of (mostly free) software available for the Linux platform is stunning. Kpackage and its equivalents are a wonderful resource for finding stuff to handle any application you can dream of (and some you can't).

Cheers for that.

Must admit when I install Fedora it worked with zero fiddling. Gnome looks like what i was used to on Solaris and Irix so I really can't be bothered looking at KDE even though I could. I have found fedora to go beyond the call of duty with hardware. Just swap a drive/boot using a liveOS dongle and away you go with no issues. Find some new toy to stick in a USB port and it just works.

The software is absolutely amazing for what you get for free.

GIMP by far out strips any other graphics/photo editing tool you get on the PC.

Openoffice more than required for my usage. In fact someway's its better than MSOffice because its not full of features which I will never use.

"vi" doesn't seem to have changed either.

mad jock:

vi hasn't changed but it's cousin, vim, improves often. vim is much more friendly to use than vi. Have you given it a whirl?!!!

Had a look at it.

vi does the trick for me for edits in /etc so will stick with it.

Wouldn't say I was a black belt in it but even after 10 years not using the thing at least my fingers remember it. Couldn't for the life me explain how to use the thing.

Must admit though I am getting used very quickly with using all the old tools that unix can give.

Need photos off a phone and no cable or IR no problem 1 min FTP server online, N96 with ftp client, local wireless network and 5 mins later photo's transferred.

Want to rename heaps of files write a script done in 4 mins.

All this interactive crap just dulls your mind with bloody clicking at buttons which takes 20-30 times as long as a couple of commands and the use of | and grep.

Mad jock:

I call my Windows colleagues here at work the point-n-click club. When it comes to the command line most are baffled or don't want to know. Or just don't understand the concepts.

Yes, the point-n-click world does have its uses but it sure is nice to know what's under the hood!

Grrr. Don't get me started on editors. I have never gotten on with any editor program that uses modes - e.g. command mode vs. editing mode - or long command sequences. Never mind vi or Emacs, I'm thinking back as far as WordStar. When WordPerfect came along on DOS, I finally found some relief, and got used to Notepad and Word on Windows.

On Linux, if I'm on the command line, I want nano or pico, thank you very much. I'm just trying to edit a text file, not learn a new language. :cool:

I have a tip for Linux users, and people planning to install Linux sometime: get used to keeping the OS and user data separate. These can even be on separate disks (ideally) or partitions.

A bit of history: this notion of keeping user data separate from the OS files is good advice on any operating system, but it's an idea that Windows users have some trouble getting used to, despite Microsoft's recent attempts to enforce it. Windows switched from a single-user OS to a multi-user OS when they brought out NT, so there's been plenty of time for people to get used to this, yet I still see people fighting this idea. (How many of you share one account across a whole family?)

Under Windows you have a folder called "Documents and Settings" (NT, 2000, XP) or "Users" (Vista, 7). Under there, each user has a folder, and all that user's data should go under there. That way, it is hidden from other users. and it's easier to back up.You might say that Windows is becoming more UNIX-like, though NT was heavily influenced by VMS, the OS that ran on DEC VAX systems. (Several VMS designers joined Microsoft to work on NT.)

Under Linux, you have the same concept, but it's called the /home directory. When you install Linux, you might be presented with an option to put /home on a different partition or disk. There is a good reason to do this: if you have to reinstall the OS later, you can wipe the OS partition without wiping the data partition, so data is not lost. During the new installation, you tell Linux to mount that partition as /home without formatting it, and all data and settings are back.

It was funny to see complaints about the security features introduced by Microsoft in Vista, when all they were doing was enforcing the kind of security that UNIX systems have had all along. I think the reason why it became a problem has to do with many applications, especially old ones, being written in with a "single user" mentality, not understanding the need to clearly separate system and user data. It makes sense that Administrator (or root) rights are required when you install an application, but after that it should run without needing Administrator rights.

Anyway, if there's one point to remember, it's this: under multi-user Linux, you will only need root rights for specific tasks, such as installing an application or fixing something. At all other times you will work as a normal user, with your own data and settings distinct from other users and the system. On my Ubuntiu Netbook system I don't even have the root account enabled: I use the "temporary elevation" system (sudo) when I need to do any system maintenance tasks.

Absolutely spot on, there bnt - my biggest peeves with Windows apps. It is ridiculous to expect admin rights to run software after it has been installed - especially as 99% of the time it is sheer laziness on the programmer's part.

I usually find that that granting write access to a few files or directories in Program Files or Windows allows the application to be run as a User account, not admin account.

SD

bnt:

VMS ran on DEC VAXs indeed. And it still runs. On VAXen, Alpha
and Integrity hardware. It's still running strong and has quite the installed base. I've been making money as a VMS Engineer - now OpenVMS - since 1986 and it's still the best operating system, hands down, out there.

But that's not a biased opinion now is it?!!!!

I'm with bnt on separating OS and data.

My umpteen-distro Linux machine had the data folders (including Thunderbird mail) on the same drive for all distros. For example, I could read the same e-mail and process it, regardless of which distro I was running.

The same technique applies for Windows - after the first crash and reinstall, it becomes a cause of joy that the data were on drives D and up.

Progress report: I upgraded my eee PC 1000 to 9.10 "Karmic" on Friday. A couple of quirks I encountered:

I like the Synaptic package manager, and am not ready to give it up for the new "Ubuntu Software Center" just yet. (I get the impression that the new program is an attempt at a iTunes-like App store, with the possibility of letting developers charge for their apps at some point.).

Synaptic was reporting that many of the apps I had previously installed were "auto-removable". This doesn't mean that they would be removed automatically by the system itself, but that they would be removed if I ran the "apt-get autoremove" command. This is something I do regularly, so this was a bit alarming to see. It turned out that most of the apps in question were redundant, replaced by others, but there were a few I wanted to keep anyway.

The solution was to mark those apps as "manually-installed", which is what they are. Select them, then uncheck "automatically installed" from the Package menu. They then appear as "Installed (manual)" in Status view.

The other things was that I found the performance went down badly. This was down to factors specific to my system here:
- this netbook has solid state drives, so it helps to change a few things, as detailed on some web pages such as this. The upgrade had undone the changes I'd made before, such as the "elevator=noop" change to GRUB. This has a major positive effect on Linux SSD performance.
- Our ISP at home, Eircom, has chronic DNS problems: try and open a webpage, it takes several seconds for them to resolve the website address so your browser can talk to it. This is easily solved by switching to OpenDNS by following the instructions here - or, as I had done, changing the DSL Router configuration. (You can just use their servers without creating an account or anything like that.) Turns out Eircom had pushed out a router update that reset the DNS settings, so it has gone back to defaults, but I've been able to set up the OpenDNS servers on the netbook itself, using their instructions.

Apart from that - I like it. Graphics performance is improved a bit, and performance is now acceptable using the "Extra" graphics settings, though I don't really need that level of "bling" on my humble little netbook. :}

Anyone seen 'Slax'? Linux on a stick!

I'm trying to "learn" Linux at the moment. On my pottering around with laptop I have Ubuntu Jaunty installed and I also have it dual boot with XP on my desktop. I have several other distro images on disk also which I will try out when I inevitably bugger up the Jaunty installation.
As a beginner to Linux - my main gripe is DVD playback and all the codecs etc. No matter what updates / codecs / players I install from the repositories, and following all the advice on the millions of Linux websites - I cannot get DVDs to play with a decent picture. It's always slow and grainy.
It took me a few days to figure how to get sound on youtube also. At least I'm on the learning curve though - if at the bottom:ok:

Learners Corner Linux
 

X213a -I'm now in exactly the same position -My former dual boot net book. An Acer One - I had a disaster when trying to fix a corrupted Ubuntu update on Fri last.

I ran computer janitor against the systems prompts and got a broken linix install - Urub would not work and I don't have a Windows recovery disk to correct the MBR. (just the factory re install option.)

I bit the bullet and did a full install of 9.04 not 9.10.
It runs OK. So far - An Atom/1GB/160 MB HD.

Don't be tempted to tweek the hardware device drivers re Wireless - I did - idiot of the week. Also search for an app called sbackup or simple backup - its a little gem.
Take a look for firestarter too - A firewall for linux.

Ubuntu 9.04 is proving to be a nice little runner. I will keep everyone informed of my progress.

CAT III

If you fancy another go at another distribution try this link.

The Perfect Desktop - Fedora 11 (GNOME) | HowtoForge - Linux Howtos and Tutorials

Haven't had any problems with DVD's although I did with playing music CD's. If you get to that state of play before I find which package I reversed its pretty easy to find if you google it.

And I am on an Acer one with fedora as I type. Its well worth having a search on installing more memory in it. A bit of a pain if your not used to pulling laptops apart but it fly's like the wind with an extra Gig in it.

Does anybody know of a simple way to enable file transfer between an Ubuntu Jaunty desktop and a laptop running Jaunty?

So far (on my laptop) I've right clicked the network connections, created a new network and enable sharing on various files. I can detect and join that network with my desktop and can even see the shared files on my laptop. It asks me for a password though when I try to access them via > Network>windows network>workgroup. I have installed something called ssh also, although I'm unsure what it is for exactly. I know about Samba but with my limited knowledge of Linux it's way over my head at the moment.

Thats my only complaint about Linux - nothing seems designed for entry level, it seems more geared towards people who are already gurus in other operating systems.

Desktop is ethernet wired to Netgear router, laptop is wireless.

Cheers.

ftp server is a very easy way to transfer files.

vsftpd is the server I use without issue.

Ubuntu Linux vsftpd ftp service / server install, configuration howto

Once its setup up you will be able to connect from any device which has a FTP client. Its how I get my photos off my phone these days.

You're on the right track with SSH, which is short for Secure Shell. At its most basic, it lets you open up a Shell (command line) on one machine from another, even across the Internet. I've sat here in Dublin and ran commands on a server in Bangalore. It's available for Windows, Mac OS and others too. Then, to answer your question, you can do file copies over SSH using SCP (Secure Copy). You need to know a bit of odd shell syntax, or use the Ubuntu "Connect To Server" method, which opens up a file window on the other system.

There's also FTP (File Transfer Protocol) , which works in a similar client/server fashion, and might be a little easier to use, though less secure. There are more far FTP programs than SCP e.g. GFTP under Gnome, or the same "Connect To Server" method as above on Ubuntu. I wouldn't worry about Samba unless you want your Linux box to look like a Windows box to other Windows systems. (I don't use it much because, well, file transfer is all it can do.)

I prefer the SSH/SCP method, and I use it at home, synchronising data between two systems (Linux & Windows) with the Unison program. I run a script to sync my "Documents" directories on the two systems, then shut the Windows system down after that's finished.

The first step is to get OpenSSH up and running: install Server on the "target" machine, and Client on the others. Test it from the client by saying ssh <server>. This basic command assumes that the user name is the same on both systems - which I would definitely recommend. If not, you need to add a logon option such as ssh -l <user> <server>.

Then try some SCP commands as described (or secpanel). You'll be asked for a password every time, which soon gets annoying, so if you're going to do a lot of copies, you might want to look in to setting up RSA Keys. When that's done, login is automatic, no passwords required.

PS: I think the lack of "easy file copy" reflects the security-conscious nature of UNIX systems in general. When you allow other machines to connect to your system, you're creating a potential security opening, and in the UNIX world you expect there to be an administrator of the system who is aware of what's happening, and why. You can set up e.g. Samba to emulate a Windows server, so it's easy for end users, but it doesn't just happen! :8

Thanks for that.
Several hours of researching on google just about to commence!

If it is something you want to do a lot of, you might want to have a look at NFS.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Se...o#NFS%20Server

SD

Quick addendum: I forget that you can do "FTP over SSH" too, it's called SFTP. I don't disagree with mad_jock about FTP, if file transfer is all you're after.

I think I need to improve my basic knowledge of Linux before progressing onto this level. Have just looked at a few supposedly 'basic' guides and they may as well have been written in heiroglyphics:ugh:

I've buggered up too many installations already by diving in at what (to me) was the deep end!

Nah, it's not that bad, just a bit "old school". You have a Server program that provides a Service, such as FTP, and a Client program that uses the Service. Keep that Client/Server model in mind and you'll be fine. Install a FTP Server on one machine, a Client on 'other (e.g. gftp), fire it up and log on. :ok:

Yeah if the distro fits, use it. I have gone from one to the other over the years and I have settled on Linux Mint for the moment. The quality of the distro is good and the toys are even nicer. You can get the GNOME or KDE versions and I've been getting friends to use it instead of Windows. I don't get nearly as many calls for help using Linux Mint as I did when they were running Windows. Stable and performs better too!

Oh yes and the driver support is brilliant, on a machine that I had Windows 7 on (for work) I battled for ages to get the display to work properly. Live CD of linux Mint..no worries, it worked first off.

Just my experience with it!

x213a:

If you want to peruse a really good beginner's guide to Linux I would highly suggest the following: The Ultimate Guide On Linux For Beginners

Most people I know who have read this guide are happy they have done so and leaves them with some pretty goofundamental knowledge of things Linux.

Hope that helps.

Thanks! Site bookmarked, research commenced:ok:

Update
 

Hi everyone - Ubuntu 9.04 is working just fine on the Asus - EM up and going via Eudora. Installing the MPC 465C Multifunction Printer comes next.

Sbackup doing what it says on the tin. The biggest improvement that I'm seeking, is disk performance; over the dual boot senario.

Battery life is about the same as XP. (its one of the small battery types - 1and 3/4 Hours working time.). application performance again slightly better. Flash Add in installed, to watch BBC etc.

Firefox 3.5 loads very quickly. Complex web sites like the Guardian or the Telegraph (No advert intended - No connection in any way with either other than as a user) load very quickly - Boot time 15-20 seconds or so - The same as XP.

Network connectivity - room for improvement here; but still completely usable. Download speeds (With MK1 BT HH) about 620 Kbs. So far so good.

The user interface is simple to use. Anyone could use this. Open Office comes as part of the install - Also there's a very good dictionary. Finally Help does help.

CAT III

Ubuntu 9.10 sound problem
 

A few weeks ago I gave a neighbour a PC with Ubuntu 9.04 installed which he has since upgraded to 9.10.

Said gent is an Internet radio fiend and runs two web radios via Reciva and Frontier Silicon portals. Both radios work fine but sometimes he likes to listen via the PC. Stations selected via the Reciva website play fine but those selected via Frontier Silicon don't play at all.

FWIW, CDs, BBC iPlayer and the likes of Youtube all produce audio OK.
He says that I managed to get 9.04 set up to work on the Frontier Silicon site but I honestly don't remember how I did that. I've recently had a bereavement and the neighbour's Ubuntu configuration hasn't been at the top of my list of things to commit to memory.

Any thoughts Gentlemen please?

N o t a

Isnt 9.10 still in Beta?

Try this link for help...

Sound Solutions for Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty) Users|Ubuntu Geek

I had to download extra codecs for firefox to enable sound on youtube etc etc.

I have the command line info on other laptop. Will hunt them out for you.

Many thanks for that x213a.

One shall gird up one's loins, so to speak, and apply the appropriate 'stuff' to the neighbour's machine.

Ubuntu 9.10 was released in its finished form during the second half of October. Can't remember the exact date.

Do you notice 'memory' (mine) has featured in both of my posts? Age is catching up with one.:eek:

I think I had a vision of hell the other day, being stuck on a flight next to a colleague who was having problems trying to get Ubuntu up & running. I must admit my own experiences have been mixed with it as well.

Having seen your post, SoundBarrier, I've just tried Linux Mint & on first sight I'm very impressed. Even when Ubuntu has worked reasonably well, it's still been a chore to get the multimedia up & running, but LinuxMint just worked straight out of the box, especially a Flash application. It installed quicker too, and with the system monitor swicthed on it's using less memory & sharing the workload across the CPUs far more efficiently than Ubuntu was doing.

I've always had a beef that Linux would always have a problem competing with Windows until you could get Linux straight of the box & it works as well as Windows. So far, Linux Mint has been it so thank you for the recommendation.

Now, dare I offer the install CD to my colleague....?

Here is a link to a piece I found very useful as a beginner to Linux after installing Ubuntu.

To Do List After installing Ubuntu 9.04 aka Jaunty Jackalope The Indexer

Basically, a guide as to all the additional tweaks required to get it running. I never managed to sort DVD playback with decent quality though.

Edit..

And this also:

How to setup the perfect 9.04 Jaunty Jackalope Desktop | chrisjohnston.org

Ubuntu a further update
 

Reading the posts re 9.04 makes interesting reading. I hope that my account of the difficulties that I have had might help others.

Here goes.

The Acer Aspire was updated from 9.04 to 9.10 this afternoon. Remember I did not have any previous sound or internet access probs (Wired and Wireless).

The Very good:

General speed is greatly improved its about 20% quicker. Fire fox 3.5.5 Included too. There's support for SMART analysis of the hard disk drive too. Nice ! and useful too.

Update keeps you settings and installed progs where possible.

The not so good:

Wireless access although a lot quicker (56 Mb/s from 5-6 at most) - seems to be intermittent. More on this when I get a better picture.

The login screen is less than beautiful, but that's a minor point.

Update is a good move if you do not have an exsisting problem. (1MB Ram, Atom, 160 GB HD )

CAT III

As for Linux working out of the box:

I've been working with Linux for about 8 years now. (15 years if you consider it's mother - Unix).

With all the distros I've used - some more difficult than others to get to work out of the box - I can unequivocally state that
Mandriva Linux is by far the most prone to doing so. Most, if not all, codecs are loaded by default, most hardware is correctly identified on load, etc.

If anyone out there is in the process of considering a Linux distro to use, definitely give Mandriva Linux a test ride.

No, I do not work for Mandriva!!!! Just a happy user.

Thanks for that RG - the biggest problem I've had with Linux is finding drivers with WPA / WPA2 support for wifi cards.

SD