And hence it was fast as hell and used next to no resources.

Yeah, and that's what they said about Microsoft until the Chinese and Russian governments came along and twisted their arm a bit. :ok:

An IP KVM and IP PDU (and/or IPMI) in a datacentre can be the difference between sitting in the comfort of your own home (or office) diagnosing servers or having to stand around in a noisy dull environment.

For the majority of IT environments,having console level keyboard, mouse and monitor access to your server at all times is a must.

Anthony, Linux may not be suitable for your desktop but it's been working nicely for me for 12 years. Horses for courses. I'm interested why you think a clueless Ubuntu user is any worse off than a clueless Windows user? It's easy enough for them get in above their head in either case.

Even the commercial flavours of linux don't really cut the mustard at high loads.

As soon as you start going over about 0.7 your log files start filling up and its starts chuntering. You can get away with running what would be high work loads on a MS machine at very low loads on a linux box makes the clueless think its a straight swap and they are happy. Then they stick a thin frontend DB application on it and the whole thing goes to rat poo.

Linux as a desktop I think is cracking, it really doesn't get anyware near the grade as say a solaris enterprise server which it is mean't to be replacing as a server. If you want a fly websever setup it can manage. Anything serious it falls over.

Actually I think Linux does protect the user better than windows does. You can run it in dafty mode and the OS won't let you compromise the OS. The simple fact that it default installs to running a normal user account removes 80% of the potential for murdering it. Add in packages and respo's and auto updates the potential for disaster is significantly less.

And mixture my experence is the opersite to yours. The folk who have access to the hardware is extremely limited, far more so than root access. And its not uncommon to have a hardware 24h standby as well as a sys admin standby. Some of the guru's I have worked with I wouldn't trust to rewire a plug never mind pull a machine out of the rack and hot swap a processor or network card. But get them writing scripts and doing fancy poo with NIS+ etc and they leave me in there wake.

Fair enough, different circumstances, different exerpiences.

However, let me give you a concrete example:

Say I'm doing a PXE install of Windows 2008 (no, I'm not going to get into OS wars here, both Linux and Windows have their place) onto a rack full of HP Proliant DL380s.

One of them is bluescreening.

The ability to (a) see the bluescceen, (b) do a hard power cycle (c) PXE boot some diagnostic tools and play with BIOS settings ...... all from hundreds of miles away .... is priceless and enables me to decide what replacement parts need to be sent to site.

Or if you want an example from the non-windows world..... remote upgrades of OpenBSD boxes, booting into single user mode on Linux, Firmware upgrades etc. etc.

Oh right... why do people like Amazon run mission-critical Oracle RAC Databases on Linux running on commodity HP Proliants then ? What a load of codswallop, Linux is perfectly capable of supporting loads.

Want more examples ? How about ITV's F1 website... that uses a linux platform for load balancing....

4000 concurrent connections to a video rich site. CPU utilisation 1% memory utilisation 500Mb of the 8GB available. Pair of HP DL360 G5 8GB RAM, 1Gb NICs (in active passive config).

Another application (same hardware spec):

1.2 Million transactions per minute
72 million transactions per hour (including in excess of 350 SSL terminations per second) sustained 750Mbps.

That's an easy one to answer.

TCO.

If you have an office, and you want to employ office workers, and part of the requirement is that they're competent on the OS you deploy.....you try finding an office full of workers that have SEEN a Linux desktop, let alone used one.

If you then want to support said office, you need a support weenie. Try finding a range of those that support Linux (and not just one, several so you have a choice of them should you need to let one go).

Obviously there are specific applications for which a Linux desktop is a good idea (code monkeys, designers, etc), but for the majority of mainstream application support, Linux is a poor choice.

Sorry mixture we are on about the same thing

The stuff I used was KVM and yes I fully agree thats the way forward. My point was that the admin shouldn't have to have his bum in the server room so multiple screens and god forbid someone actually working on them is a no no.

Bar having to get a screw driver out to fix something you should never be in the room.

And for the folk that don't know what we are on about.

Specialist suppliers of IP solutions, including KVM over IP and remote server monitoring. Call us now 01202 872771

Got a bit fancier since I worked with them but the principle is still the same.

No worries. Although I was secretly looking forward to finding out what mysterious ways you had to resolve a bluescreen without one. I thought you might be about to teach me how to suck some different eggs !

Install a solaris server would be my first suggestion :D

Mike, in that case the next version of Windows won't be suitable for the desktop either ;)

In most work environments the systems are so locked down that OS competency is meaningless because you can't do anything other than use the apps. And how is using a GUI based app in Windows vastly different to using one in Linux? You point, you click, you type, you save.

Anthony was flatly saying Linux wasn't suitable for use as a desktop system, which is plain wrong. Deployment in specific situations is a different matter.

And to be honest letting loose some users on apps is really counter productive to generating profit.

One particular witch I worked out that we could employ an additional 2 office grunts if we didn't have to have a floor walker visit her 6 times a day.

That's the permanent advantage of assembler. If you want to see how fast PCs really are these days, run something on them that is written in assembly language, and be amazed. Bloatware grows so quickly that today's PCs don't really get normal tasks done any faster than they did 25 years ago. Every increase in hardware speed has been eclipsed by an equal or greater increase in software bloat.

The list of reasons why Linux is a terrible choice for the desktop is too long to provide here. Suffice it to say that Linux among ordinary users is asking for trouble: a support and administrative and strategic nightmare. And there are no compensating advantages.

I have no emotional attachment to operating systems, so bigotry is not an issue. If I'm supporting or administering a hundred thousand desktops, I simply want something that minimizes the support calls and administrative headaches for me and my staff. Linux is a very poor choice in view of those objectives.

The reality is that, in 99.999% of cases, Windows is indeed the right tool for the job, irrespective of any visceral dislike that some people may feel for the operating system or its vendor.

Anthony, you seem to be out there by several orders of magnitude as well. Becoming a bit of a habit when you're discussing Linux. Anyone would think you really don't like it, in a rather visceral manner. I'd call it bigoted.

Not everyone shares your objectives.

Given that Linux represents less than 0.1% of desktops, my own assessment is clearly congruent with mainstream opinion. Linux has made no significant inroads on the desktop in the two decades of its existence. Unless there are some very fundamental and significant changes in the Linux world and the IT market at large, that will never change.

True. Apparently about 0.1% of desktop computer users do prefer Linux. But the other 99.9% seem to agree with me.

Still out by an order of magnitude.

Operating system market share news

the three sites I have done for small airlines since I was working full time in IT have all been Linux desktops.

Its saves a bloody fortune on licensing and if you ever get a visit for software they just turn round and walk out the door when they find out what you are using.

The users I must admit hate it with a passion mainly because they can't screw around with it and its not windows and the burds have issues with not having office and using openoffice instead. But the boss quite quickly likes it after zero down time and no money for licenses going out. Its a hellva lot more stable network to run without needing all the back office staff that MS requires. once its set up 30 mins a week does for the house work. I just had a sudo script for creating users that HR used if they had a new start. 30sec after walking in the door everything was good to go from email through to FTL's.

I'm just back from a meeting with a sales manager who's setting up a new company in the UK. He's fresh from doing the same thing in Ireland, and I couldn't help but smile when he said the following, unprompted:

"When we started the company in Ireland, we got a guy in to do the whole IT for us. He stuck in Linux desktops and Open Office and said 'it'd be just the same'. It's a pile of !!!!. It won't even run my laptop properly. I just want something that's normal and works".

Yeah, when will people realise, it's NOT the same thing.

I've seen IT managers sucking up to CFOs by saying they will deploy OpenOffice for all new recruits and save $$$ ..... all well and good for the secretaries and general office dogsbodies ..... but when you start recruting for a new trading desk, it suddenly dawns on you that Open Office is rubbish at more advanced stuff such as macros etc.... the traders then proceed to eat the IT department for breakfast when they loose deals.

Choose the right tool for the job. A proper IT manager should put licensing costs as a secondary concern behind the consideration as to whether or not the software is actually suitable for its intended purpose.

Just because you might look at Open Office through rose tinted glasses, doesn't mean everybody is shortsighted and needs glasses too. :cool:

"If you are heavy into extensive VBA macros......"

Indeed. But the fact of the matter is that 99% of the people who use an office suite are not and Open/LibreOffice works just fine. Our seccys adapted within a couple of days.

A mainstream Linux distro is now easy to install, easy to configure, easy to administer, very stable and considerably more secure than anything but the most carefully locked down Windows (which 99.99% are not).

The venom displayed in this thread is odd.

There is absolutely no reason why (apart from MS's widely documented anti-competitive practices) why the world should be tied to Microsoft's OS and apps for ever and ever.

Mac

For some people, computers are a way to get things done. For others, they are a religion.

It was "several orders of magnitude" a few posts earlier. What will it be next?

Nobody even knows how many Linux desktops exist, because there are no sales figures to count. I have multiple Linux desktop machines at work and we have a Linux desktop at home, a Linux laptop, a Linux server and a Linux netbook... I doubt any of them are reporting statistics to anyone. Occasionally I boot the laptop into Windows to edit video or play a game that doesn't run on Linux, but otherwise I don't miss it.

And the desktop market itself has peaked; there'll be desktop computers for a long time to come, but the big growth is likely to be in various kinds of mobile hardware. Linux has a substantial presence in the mobile market while Windows has hardly any; I've seen iPhones and Android phones but I've never ever seen a Windows phone.

Lucky you!

I had the misfortune to have been given a work phone with Windows mobile or CE (I honestly can't remember which) that was so bad that I quietly took the SIM card out and back into the Nokia 6310 that I had "forgotten" to hand back!

SD

fyi...

File:Smartphone share current.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and whilst early WinCE and WM devices were dire, devices later than WM5 were generally "ok" and Windows Phone 7 is comparable* to an iPhone.

(*as in the same ball park)

Figures given for PC OS marketshare are usually based on useragent data from people visiting the Akamai top 500 or something like that, I think.

Must call you out on your phone statement - looking at the diagram linked to by Mike Bracknell, only Android is linux-based. Symbian uses a proprietary kernel and iOS uses the Darwin kernel, which as you probably well know is a derivative of a derivative of Unix, but not Linux.

Kindles are linux and there are millions of them out there.

I agree that the number of pc with linux installed on them and for that matter windows is miss leading.

The fatc that virtually ever shop machine is supplied with windows screws up the figures. How many these days get wiped and linux put on them as the first job who knows.

Sales figures do not equate to operating desktops, as anyone who has wiped a pre-installed OS to install something else knows.

Since many desktops have Internet access, the number of operating Linux desktops can be inferred from user agent information provided to Web sites. On my own site, with about 1.6 million unique visitors per year, Linux was reported as the OS of exactly 0.9% of visitors in 2010. Windows represented 84.62% of visitors, and Mac (all versions) represented 11.2% of visitors. About 0.000334% of visitors were still running OS/2, which was a favored underdog OS until its fans (if they were old enough to remember OS/2) switched largely to Linux.

And I doubt that your arrangement is even remotely representative of the norm. Most people have just one computer, if they have any computer at all, and it typically runs under Windows. People running Linux are often running multiple machines. People running Windows typically have just one machine. I have the impression that Mac users may be slightly more likely than Windows users to have multiple computers (all Apple products), because Mac users are more likely to be fans rather than simple users.

I agree. One of the unspoken realities of personal computing is that PCs are designed to assist with intellectual tasks … and there are a great many people who never engage in intellectual tasks. Desktop computers appeal to people who are somewhat more intelligent than average, just as home gym equipment appeals to people who are in somewhat better physical condition than average. This is why computers are gradually converging towards entertainment devices (have you noticed that almost all monitors sold today have aspect ratios that are useless for anything other than watching TV and movies?).

Most people don't even need an application like Word—because they never write anything. Indeed, in the U.S., about 30% of the population is functionally illiterate and can barely do anything with a computer at all.

I wonder how many computers are used just purely for looking at porn.

Let's face it, billgatesisgod.com or howdoifixmybluescreen.net could skew the results a bit :)

Several years ago, I was asked whether we should switch our desktop environment of about 15,000 machines to Linux. Although I was in favour, my advice was that it would be courageous - in simpler terms, lunacy (or should that be linuxy?)

In an infrastructure role, our Windows machines represent a significant overhead in terms of manpower. The Unix crew know more about the MS side of things than they'll let on, but they won't cooperate out of pride and petulance (a good title for a novel), and playfully point out the deficiencies in Uncle Bill's OS - the MS machines have more patches than a Scotsman's condom. I get to manage both tribes. That sucks like a failed actress on crack in a bus station.

When Mrs SO bought her latest laptop, it came with Windows 7. She expected me to wave the Fedora wand it at, as I've done in the past - but as this was not just a hand-me-down from me, as it's been in the past, I insisted that she keep it in its original state.

Dumb.

The afternoon Mrs SO was leaving for a four-week trip, she called me, quite distraught. Her profile was buggered, and she couldn't get in. There is a registry key you can unbugger to repair this, but you need safe mode or the admin uid to do it. This wasn't really feasible over the telephone from the office.

At work, I can afford a team of thirty people to run around picking up the dog's eggs that MS OSes produce. I can sustain the mandatory weekly reboot of our MS desktops, because I am being paid for it. No such luxury at home, and that's why I am in high demand amongst my friends because 'SO works with computers'.

I put MS OSes on desktops at work in the same category as minorities recruitment and H&S. A pile of crap, but a sandwich with some sh!t in it has more nutrition than without. Adopting Linux on corporate desktops is dropping the soap in the shower, because with Windows you just blame Bill. With Linux, it's you who'll be Mr Sh!tty Operating System.

SO

Well there is one here - I've just bought last week a new Ideapad pre-installed with W7 Starter. Due to timing it has had a a short reprieve. I must admit that it looks pretty slick, but its on borrowed time. In 3 more days Opensuse 11.4 is released and that's what is going on. No dual boot nonsense, a clean install. I've been Suse since 9.3 on all my PC's, desk and lap.

Linux Time
 

Ok peeps, need our resident Linux bods now.

I got bored and turned the desktop machine into a dual boot Win 7/Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) system. Everything is pretty much ok, on both sides, as far as bootup, etc, goes, BUT the wireless connection on Ubuntu is a bit erratic at times.

I'm using one of these Sitecom USB Wireless N dongles (Yeah, I know, these USB dongles ain't the best but it's what I have and since the router is in the same room I am not just dropping a signal due to walls, etc) which uses a Ralink chipset and, on bootup, it runs fine then drops the connection. After a few minutes faffing around it sometimes comes back but other times I have to do a full restart to get a reliable connection.

I've done the obvious things like look at the settings, and all seems ok there, the dongle has no issues on Win 7 and will happily stay connected for as long as the puter is on so that leads me to think the issue is something to do with Ubuntu. Any suggestions?

PS. Chose Ubuntu because I got a corrupt download of OpenSuse from their site and am too close to my "traffic limit" to pull down another 4.8Gb to get a working version.

Sounds like a driver issue, rather than a Linux one.

That was what I thought, but since I'm a noob at Linux I don't know which way to turn. Followed the instructions to install a windows driver through ndisgtk package thingie and now I have NO wireless at all and can't "undo" what I did (back on win7 now).

Ho hum, time to hit some other forums and get what they say.

Looks like support for this chip has been included in the kernel since Linux 2.6.18. You shouldn't need an external driver or Ndiswrapper.

See Linux Kernel Driver Database: CONFIG_RT2X00: Ralink driver support

Ask around the Ubuntu forums rather than here!

:ok:

Mac (Mepis Linux - MEPIS | A Linux operating system based on Debian Stable)

Yeah, Mac, the driver is built in to Meerkat BUT it doesn't explain the random "dropout" of the connection.

That's the bit that confuses me, but after a hunt around I MIGHT have found a solution......

Oh well, gives me something to do!!

First thing to try - upgrade the wireless AP (or router)'s firmware. :ok:

Linux and wireless does seem to be quite hit and miss, especially with old(er) kit.

There's a lot of problems with chipset manufacturers not releasing Linux drivers (why???) and being the opposite of helpful in allowing the Linux community to access their code to develop their own (again, why????).

In many cases, the answer has been to use the windows NDIS driver with a Linux wrapper, but this is not entirely satisfactory.

I've tried and failed several times to get various Linuces working with wifi cards on desktop and laptop PCs - OK, not recent kit, about 8-9 years old (but that's all I've got to play with right now).

On the bright side, you will immeasurably increase your understanding of Linux and networking if you persevere (and hopefully succeed), but that may not actually be your objective!

Good luck!

SD

From Slashdot...
 

"I have 3 different Ralink based USB NIC's, with a 2500, a 2571, and a 2870 based chipset.

The drivers included in every kernel in every distro I have ever hopped to are pardon my language, total crap.
Anyone who has used one of these NIC's for more than an hour knows what I'm talking about (A quick google search can be enlightening). Low signal levels, and frequent disconnects requiring the module being unloaded and reloaded. Being the cheap ass I am buying a Atheros based NIC isn't in my agenda so my solution has been to obtain the driver source from Ralink themselves (http://www.ralinktech.com), these drivers are rock solid and why they are not included in the kernel I don't know, maybe someone else can enlighten me."

Go to - Ralink corp.

Keep us informed.

:ok:

Well, had no help from linux forums and am now too peed off with the random connection drops so the Meerkat is gone.

Will be getting another distro soon, already have PCLinuxOS so might try that but methinks I'll be looking at something like Open Suse because the last thing you want is to be farting around like this when you ain't sure about what you are doing, the learning can come after a basic WORKING setup is operational and it don't look like that is possible easily with Ubuntu.

You would think these issues would be fixed by now, the Realtek chipset problems are not exactly new.....

Ok, have the PCLinuxOS live CD running so i'll see how the connection stays with that. So far it's been up for 3 mins and that's more than the average for Ubuntu