No competition is it really ... You'd have to be a very very silly boy not to opt for the Mac.

This, and this and this is the type of customer care you get with MESH.

Ohh and being a PC you get all the problems from the last couple of pages, BSOD, Crashing, Viruses etc

Speaking of Viruses ... how much did you budget for keeping the Mesh free from them? I guess if you add that to the price you end up seeing a Cheaper iMac :}

I too can use a search engine to find forum threads which discuss poor Apple service...I can also decide to buy my computer from Dell, or Evesham or any number of manufacturers. Of course, the clued up actually build one themselves if they're looking for a desktop machine. Even cheaper, and you are in direct control of the build quality.
As I've said elsewhere, I've never had Vista crash on me, and only very, very rarely did XP crash before that. I was listening to a podcast the other day where Leopard owners were complaining about them having crashes to the BSOD, so that's no longer solely a PC problem!
In total, I've spent about £45 in my life. That was years ago....I bought a copy of Norton. Used it until the subscription ran out. Since then I've used Freeware tools. Not that I've ever had a virus anyway.

Apples and oranges, chalk and cheese, boeing and airbus..... and never the twain shall meet!!

For what it's worth I've been using Macs professionally for over 15 years and, yes I really like them / no, I wouldn't ever buy a PC. I do have to use a PC regularly and am frequently confounded by the lack of intuition built into the OS. For those of a techie disposition, I guess the ability to customise/fiddle with your computer makes the PC number 1, but I (like many others) care little for what happens inside the box, and only about doing what I need it to do - which, in my opinion, the mac does very well.

For those totally outside either camp, please be aware that you DON'T need to run a virtual version of windows on a mac to 'talk' to other PCs - you can buy 'Office for Mac' which runs in the Mac OS, and will run (...create...edit..) your Word, Excel, Powerpoint pieces perfectly well.

Yehh Apple reliability would bring up http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2006502,00.asp

Once again, Apple and Sony are Readers' Choices, receiving some of the highest ratings for desktops. Once again, HP/Compaq and Lenovo/IBM receive some of the lowest.

In 2005, readers gave their desktops an overall score of 7.9 out of 10.This year, it's 7.8. Last year, the average score for likelihood of recommending was 7.7, and this year, it continues at 7.7. Look no further than Apple, the leader of the pack, whose overall score holds steady at 9.1. Last year, Apple's score on units needing repair was an impressive 11 percent—well below that of any other company in the survey.

You'll hear more positive things about Apple Macs than you will a PC. I've spoken to a couple of PC Techies and they said it's good PC are unreliable as it keeps them in a job, if we all used Macs they'd have nothing to fix.

Of the 8/9/10 PC's I've had over the years they've all needed TLC to work and often need repairs, I've had 18 months trouble free with my Mac. I don't work for them and I hated them when I was a die hard PC gaming fan and thaught Mac's were for hippy gimps ... Guess I was wrong, I can only pass on what I know and until my Mac plays up then I have nothing bad to say about it.

Yes, and so can I: It's where people start making blanket claims about them that things go downhill.

I've used Macs on and off for years, At the moment I can never see a time when I'd buy one, I just don't get on with the OS at all, although I've not had a good go at Leopard yet. I might consider one if they ever bring out a desktop that can play Company of Heroes! :}

As said before it's horses for courses.

I wouldn't knock anybody for enjoying their PC, I did for 15+ years but got so frustrated I thought I'd give the dark side a go. Like the original poster on here I didn't know if the Mac was worth the 'extra' money but was reassured by the Mac converts that it's worth every penny.

I took the plunge and have never looked back, I do however still own a PC to do my ASP.net work on and I was going to use it for FS2004 with all my add ons that I bought a couple of months back. (I've not had the time unfortunately to load them on ... plus my Stick has a different connector to what is on my PC).

I have an Xbox 360 to play games on so the PC was last used about 4 months ago :bored:

You pick whatever you most comfortable with at the end of the day, it might take you a week or two to get used to the mouse having only 1 button (you can just get a 2 button mouse), and there are a couple of things that you need to do differently - but it's not brain surgery ... apparently that is hard?

But for me, my basic MiniMac 1.66 Duo with 512Mb ram is holding up well. My works PC is having a RAM upgrade tomorrow to 2Gb and my Mac will be 1Gb Ram in the new year.

I can't find a fault with my Mac like many others, but that's my fault? :p

All,

I think that there are always going to be those for Macs and those for PCs.

I am pleased that the debate in this particular thread has remained largely free of the kind of unreasoned "other camp" bashing that often (usually?) accompanies the "discussion". For this you all deserve credit for your restraint. :ok:

Be that as it may, I remain dubious of the value of this kind of thread, however innocently started. This is a couple of pages of time, effort and bandwidth that has - ultimately - served little purpose, other than to demonstrate the validity of my first statement. And yes, I do have to read the posts!

In the future, therefore, do not be surprised if the "Great Apple Mac / Intel PC / Jobs/ Gates Debate" gets nipped in the bud, or posts deleted if they cross the line between relevant, pertinent debate and point proving / willy-waving, etc. And persistently robust offenders (if any) may be asked to leave the ball-pit for a cooling-off period.

Serenity, I hope that you have got some interesting views here, although - by your own admission - some of it has been "over your head", and that your purchasing decision has been made easier.

I am not going to lock this thread, as there has been useful and pertinent advice and information, and hopefully more to come, with the same level of maturity and restraint shown thus far - mostly! ;)

SD

Boeing are rubbish! Airbus pwns!

No?

Alright then...................:}

Apologies for the thread drift....

Have you decided Serenity?

Well, all very interesting, but due to limited funds currently i`m opting for a pc. In a few years time with more funds , and maybe greater technical advancements, i may very well be tempted to the dark side!

Next question - HP, Acer, Mesh, Evesham etc ??????????????:}

You'll find someone who has had a bad experience with all of them, but for what it's worth, I work for a small company (under 100 people) that has stuck with HP laptops for a long time; no one is telling them what to do, no corporate policy interferes, so if the reliability experience was not good they would have simply changed by now.

The only other thing to say is that I find that that the models that are available on the HP site are not always easy to find in their chosen retailers, so the online shopping experience is really very weak compared to sites that allow you to configure online what you want - and you rely on what is in stock from 3rd party retaliers. It seems only a few models are available online direct from HP.

Homebuild :confused:

Gonzo could make you a much better PC than 'Tiny' or 'Time' etc and you customise it to what you want.

Don't want to start a debate on Homebuilt PC v Factory PC ;)

There are some good packages out these that include screen / keyboard / mouse / desktop / software / printer etc but it's whatever you need. You don't get anything for free so guess how much went on the PC components.

Warranty isn't an issue with homebuilds as the parts each comes with a warranty. I had a component that failed on me (HD) from a faulty batch and I had it replaced.

Good luck with your PC, Very disappointed I must say :rolleyes: lol

It's only a bit of fun and a debate that's been going for years and will still go on for years. :p

Good luck.

It will indeed continue, until one of us converts :{:sad::}

Quite Ironic really, I posted my last message then saw that you'd say go for a HP Laptop out of the companies listed.

I was going to write "Finally me and tallsandwich are going to agree!!!" but as I went to post it my works PC died. i.e.

Shut down and won't re-load. I have an error message saying:

r corrupt:
Windows root>\system32\hal.dll
lease re-install a copy of the above file.

So I'm now computerless, lucky my employers don't use Macs or I'd never get a rest ;)

What I was going to add though is I'd probably go for a Sony VAIO if I had to get myself a PC Laptop. (Maybe the Sony Vaio VGN-AR190G ?)

mac
 

mac or pc? just changed to mac 2 month ago, going back to a pc?
never ever, this mac just works and works and works, not a single problem:) and so user friendly.
kind regards

Got my first MS-Dos in '86, my first Windows in '92 and my first MacBook in 2007 - I WON'T GO BACK!

Think Applications.... Hmmm.... Let me see.

iTunes
Word processing
Spreadsheets
Adobe Acrobat
Make presentations
Watch movies
View and edit photographs
Browse the internet
Send & receive email

Is there anything there a Mac can't do?

XP keeps locking up my applications, does mysterious things on my behalf without my permission, downloads things without asking and generally behaves as if it owns the place. Like a small clone of Microshaft actually. Its my computer and I'll do as I like with it, d'ya hear Bill?

I too am fed up with the Microsoft experience and I'd really like an impartial comparison. Unfortunately the partisanship makes it really difficult to decide. At the moment my clapped out IBM notebook with XP Pro does most of what I need but the peripherals are wearing out and it will eventually expire. In the meantime it'll make a good replacement for my old Win 98 desktop. So, I'm tempted to try a Mac as my next notebook just to get that impartial comparison. I'll probably post a report once I've had a chance to try the Mac.

Word processing
Spreadsheets
Make presentations

These are the areas not covered in a basic purchased Mac. Either run your old suite natively in Windows with 'bootcamp,' provided within the operating system or one of the neater, paid for, solutions like VM's fusion. About 50 quid I think.

Pilots being pilots just get a free download of OpenOffice Or Neo Office to run on the Mac OS. The Mac suite, iWork, costs 50 quid. That's not an education price but full retail. Family won't touch Word after 10 minutes using the compatible Mac equivalent, 'Pages.' Those Word users who get moist at the thought of creating a new macro won't like it.

Watch movies
View and edit photographs
Browse the internet
Send & receive email

All integrated in the basic installation. I use the one's supplied as my daily defaults with one exception.

Most road warrior Mac users do go for one particular add on for watching movies. VLC - highly recommended and free download. Open source and constantly updated.

Obviously there's a significant number of third party browsers as well with Firefox and Opera being popular additions to the one included. They're purely down to personal choice. We could debate the differences all day but they work - it's down to one feeling right for you. Our stats tell us that the vast majority stick with the built in one, just like PC users.

Same goes for mail - but folks are very different in how a mail system should look to them or out of habit are wedded in some way to webmail. Different strokes for each individual.

Rob

Is that what you thought I meant? No, what I meant was: examine the applications you want/need, and pick the computer for those. If a Mac fits the bill, and you can afford the bill, go for it.

It doesn't fit my requirements: why does that make me, in AlphaMale's words, "a very silly boy"? I know it's a mild insult, but it's still unnecessary. I'm not anti-Mac; but I am anti-lock-in, anti-lazy-assumption, anti-ignorance, and anti-smugness. Apples are not the only fruit. :E

PARC (Palo Alto Research Center, Inc.), formerly Xerox PARC

The first successful commercial GUI product was the Apple Macintosh, which was heavily inspired by PARC's work; Xerox was given Apple stock in exchange for engineer visits and an understanding that Apple would create a GUI product. Much later, in the midst of the Apple v. Microsoft lawsuit in which Apple accused Microsoft of violating its copyright by appropriating the use of the "look and feel" of the Macintosh GUI, Xerox also sued Apple on the same grounds. The lawsuit was dismissed because Xerox had waited too long to file suit, and the statute of limitations had expired........

Lemons anybody?

I'm not anti- anything either, but when I'm to my eyeballs in problem solving, getting my PC to do what I want it to do, instead of it undoing my set-up because it thinks it knows better. Or else when it starts downloading a load of crap while I'm on-line, and freezes the browser. Or any of its other odd unexplained tricks, I do often wonder if something else might serve me better and maybe respect my privacy.

PCs seem to have been taken over by New Labour. They know best... :rolleyes:

Once again, you're equating the PC with the worst experiences Microsoft users have. If everyone had the same negative experiences, there would be an understandable rush away from their software. Why don't I have the same experiences with my old XP system? Is it because I've learned a few things along the way - such as which hardware to choose, which stuff to install, how to protect a network? It's no harder than driving a car with a manual gearbox, doing basic service on it, and knowing which fuel to put in the tank. (Oh, wait - bad example, no-one services their own car any more, do they?)

They've set themselves up for a fall with Vista, I think, but (as I said earlier) that does not mean Apple is the answer. I am moving away from Microsoft, gradually, as my requirements change. (I want a light, efficient system, not Vista's bloatware.) I will not, however, buy in to the Apple cult, for reasons I gave earlier.

Quote:

---

why does that make me, in AlphaMale's words, "a very silly boy"? I know it's a mild insult, but it's still unnecessary. I'm not anti-Mac; but I am anti-lock-in, anti-lazy-assumption, anti-ignorance, and anti-smugness.

---

Take a chill pill Bill! ... It was meant as a joke and if anything I'd assume it would get Gonzo's back up, lucky he sees this thread on a mature level then.

I think £50 is a pretty good 'legal' investment; I was impressed with the little things with my Mac that you pay a premium for a PC. I bet the PC Gonzo compared to a Mac didn't come with built in Bluetooth, Fire wire ports and 2.0 USB ports as standard?

You can see where the PC makers cut corners to fool the public you can actually get a PC for the price of a Mac. :E

Maybe having to upgrade the PC to a FireWire 400, FireWire 800, 5 x USB 2.0 ports and making the PC Bluetooth would neutralise the £50 spent on 'Office for Mac'. (Keep in mind the FireWire 400 and FireWire 800 will set you back £20 and £40 respectively).

You'll still be short of a built in iSight etc by I wont put the boot in any more than I need to ;)

(There was me thinking this thread had gone to sleep)

You rang? :E

No bluetooth, but 6x USB2.0 ports, 2x Firewire (not sure which flavour), Gigabit LAN and memory card reader, the DVD Writer has Lightscribe.

And it takes a great deal to get my back up....... I'm so laid back that usually I can't see over my hips.....

Not that it matters, but IMHO bluetooth is :yuk:. Although the way the new Apple iPhone headset partners with the iPhone is cool.

LOL - Same here, I remember my history teacher telling my mother on parents day that I'm too laid back and need a rocket up my a*s.

That isn't a bad spec PC then (6x USB 2.0 ports, 2x Firewire). The PC's I have purchased in the past keep needing to be upgraded for me to work more efficiently.

I like my bluetooth as I have a wireless mouse and keyboard and I can send stuff to my mobile with no problem, it's backup my address book with no problems (instantly) and if I want to change my display/ring-tone etc then I just send it. Much easier than having to get out a data cable.

My last few phones that have had cameras on them never get photos backed up onto a PC as it's too much of an effort with software and cables. No excuse with the Mac so I think I'll get a 5 Megapixel phone next.

I don't think I've ever connected my phone to my PC. I just whip out the card and plug that in to the PC get the incriminating photos from it.....I have a Sony Eric K810 at the moment, so I'll probably swap to a K850 next month when I can upgrade.

Oooops. Off topic again!!! :}

Parallels Desktop
 

Parallels Desktop allows you to run XP/Vista in a virtual machine on you Intel Mac.

I installed it on my MacBook basically because I've used Paint Shop Pro so much and have a big collection of .psp images that I don't want to convert.

Flawless install of XP and runs like a charm - you'd never know it was in a VM. Quick too.

I did bump up the Mac's memory to 2GB though, just on general principles.

:ok:

Seems a lot of people have Macs and have had no problems :cool:

Less than a month ago now, I purchased a brand spanking new top of the line Dell PC. Today it sits dormant on my desk after a hard disk failure. For me it's the last straw.

I've used MACs at work now for a while and love 'em! So, as soon as Dell collect the heap of sh:mad:t sat on my desk and refund my card, I shall be ordering a MAC.

My initial thought was to go for a desktop MAC PRO. However, any thoughts on the very sleak looking iMac?

Cheers

S

I have access to a MacPro and my parents (family computer) and it's fast! Has plenty of space for upgrades too, I think it has 8 slots for the RAM for example. We have 4 x 1Gb RAM sticks.

The cost of these PowerMacs / MacPro's are expensive but you get a very very powerful bit of kit!

I've always had issues with anything that has something else built into it. TV/Video combi, TV/DVD Combi, DVD/VHS combi and so on and I'd hate to fall into the trap of having a broken display on an iMac stopping me from using the computer within it. Main reason for opting for a minimac and the cost of a PowerMac. Although I will upgrade to a PowerMac when finances are not so tight or if my Mac should ever play up ... No signs of that so far :zzz:

Hope you get a computer of any type that you like scruggs.

It appears the Dell wasn't a DOA and you got a month out of it.

Of the 5 Macs and 1 PC in the Towers household the only failure in 7 years has been a hard disc made by some seedy back street clowns called Hitachi. It didn't seem to like a life of constant pressure changes.

Components go across all platforms and brand names - it's often just one of those things in a world of mass production, sampling and batch testing.

Bino's disappointment with Apple backup in Oz mentioned here recently should make us all think hard about service above and beyond the basic law and irrespective of the brand and OS.

I'd strongly suggest UK users have a long hard look at getting a machine from the John Lewis Partnership. A huge reputation, well deserved if the shop locations suit. Free delivery for on line ordering - the relevant part of their terms follow.

I'd also point out that their tellies get five years
NB: I am not a John Lewis partner nor have I ever played one on TV.:uhoh:

Rob

Guarantees

We always honour the manufacturer's guarantee period where offered; these are usually one year unless otherwise stated. Please see individual product pages for details. In addition to the first year manufacturer’s guarantee on large electrical domestic appliances, computers, non-portable hi-fi equipment, DVD and VHS players/recorders and camcorders, we provide a free second year service guarantee

5 Macs and 1 PC! I knew in the end it's impossible for pilots to hide the profits :}

I think you've nailed it actually PT, I was lucky to get a month out of it. The hard disk in question was made by Samsung. I phoned Dell up and asked if there was anyway I could recover the data on it. They told me that because of something to do with the RAID config, all data was lost. I asked them if I could keep the knackered HD to see if I could take it somewhere for repair - they said nope! When I challenged them on this, they said they wouldn’t replace the HD unless I agreed that they could take to old one away. So...I told them to just come and collect the lot, and give me my cash back. They reluctantly agreed.

Oh well, last time I shall be using Dell that's for sure.



S

I've just had a phone call from our IT contactors that my PC's HD has gone and the data that was on it has gone with it :bored:... most of my graphics are on the company server but that's not the point.

Don't you just hate it when the HD gives up the ghost :rolleyes:

Well, whatever you choose I hope you have a good look at the small print scruggs. At least Dell will take it back, albeit with significant displeasure on your side just as Binos faced regarding an Apple repair.

Most Mac users update machinery at a much slower rate than others. The software and OS seem much more able to keep daily use fluid on an old machine whatever the benchmarks say.

Once on the dark side though getting a new Mac is one way the evil ones keep us in the fold. Start a new one and the screen asks if you have an old mac. If so please connect by firewire and restart it. Click one button and it transfers the lot - all data, settings, preferences, software, addresses, pics, music, vids, dodgy bookmarks Etc in the original folder topography you created over the years.

A very sneaky way of getting us 'normal' folks to upgrade more often than non power users/ enthusiasts usually do.

Like changing banks it's traditionally all such a pfaff that you put it off.

Anyway, what is it that you do that suggests the desktop/tower to you? Fastest video card and most memory? Games,flight simming, video rendering, large scale stills manipulation or music production are the only areas I can think of where you'd notice the extra speed. Or you need a third party monitor with guaranteed colour gamut and measurement? With the rate of change in memory architecture, connections and slots I don't feel they're nearly as future proof as we used to consider them.

Oh, and slipping back to John Lewis and tellies again. They don't give any of this HD Ready, Almost Ready, Might be Ready if you are partially sighted tosh. It's 1080p or it ain't in the list.

It's OK - I'll thread ban myself :=

Rob

Regarding spreadsheets etc as mentioned.

Microsoft office 2004 Entourage for mac works very well for all this stuff.
:)

Um... neither Dell nor Apple (nor Microsoft) make hard drives. They are made by a few companies only: Western Digital, Seagate (incl. Maxtor), Fujitsu, Hitachi (formerly IBM), Samsung.

You have absolutely no justification for thinking a Mac's drive will be any more reliable than a PC's. Do you know who made the drive that failed, and the drive you'd get if you buy a Mac?

(I used to support storage systems, so if I wanted to I could bore y'all silly about "infant mortality" and the bathtub curve... but I won't.)

scruggs,

My sympathy for your loss!

But do bear in mind that the HDs in Apples and the HDs in PCs are actually identical. Same form factor, same interfaces, same manufacturers.

The reality is that you are just as likely to have a HD failure in a Mac as a PC.

SD

How can Macs be better than PCs? They only have 1 damn mouse button!!!!!

Um...bnt, if you actually read my last, you would have read I stated my hard drive was made by Samsung :rolleyes:.

S

My mighty mouse appears to have 4, plus a scroll wheel!

PC users ... what can we do with them :p ... Failed to read the post and jammed up - that's the user not the PC by the way :ok: